vedge Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hello I was happily developing a custom application with a SmashTV Core and PIC for a few evenings in a row(uploading new sysex files around 10 times an hour .. or more).When suddenly, at one point after an upload, 1)reboot2)LCD shows MIOS 1.9 bla bla3)LCD show random chars on the bottom row.Odd i think. trying to upload file again,same 1-2-3 results.Hum, then i tried to upload a known working app (J5_dout test)...same thing. After i tried everyhing, reloading MIOS 1.9c -> boot loader up to date.(yay i think) ... then dunno what happened but now it seems completely dead.I cant even send stuff to it (even in manual fashion). There is no OS or anything.Was i too heavy on the flashing?I have a spare PIC from a MIDIBOX SID that i can use - i swapped that PIC on the (now) empty core and i was able to re upload SID 1.7 on it no problem but im scared this could happen again. (maybe i was unlucky and got a faulty chip).But maybe not. + i dont want to to break my SID box. :)Anything i could do? ... It would seem dumb to pay shipping twice to get my PICre flashed ... when i dont even know if thats going to help!I already have another PIC in the mail, but any pointers on what NOT todo? Or any last attempts to salvage the one i have?It doesnt send any sysex upon boot. Only a all too familliarblack front row on the LCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackchaos Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I've thought I had fried my PIC during a HEX upload many times but I've always found my way back and recovered.Thorsten has provided some safeguards to keep these things uploadable.I'm assuming you're using MIOS studio to upload the HEX.I would suggest you restart MIOS Studio, Enable [wait for upload request], then turn on your PIC. If you get nothing after 10-15 seconds, try disabling [wait for upload] and send via manual mode.Make sure your application isn't hosing your PIC, try an earlier version or one of TK's sample applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I had lot of troubles programming with few programmers (JDM and AllPICProgrammer), and several times I was sure PIC is dead. They also become hot, few times but... stayed alive. I found my first PIC I marked as dead a week ago and I sucsessfully erased it and reprogrammed it with no problems using PIC Burner and P18 software! I didn`t throw it away for sentimental reasons. :DI remember programming before PIC Burner... man, it was longest and hardest moments in my MB life. Now is just a joyfull routine. ;)So, I guess your PIC is probably alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I had lot of troubles programming with few programmers (JDM and AllPICProgrammer), and several times I was sure PIC is dead. They also become hot, few times but... stayed alive. I found my first PIC I marked as dead a week ago and I sucsessfully erased it and reprogrammed it with no problems using PIC Burner and P18 software! I didn`t throw it away for sentimental reasons. :DI remember programming before PIC Burner... man, it was longest and hardest moments in my MB life. Now is just a joyfull routine. ;)So, I guess your PIC is probably alive. Yeah, but im my situation, i dont know if my curretn MIOS projects warrant the time/effort tobuild a JDM. Maybe if i lose another :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Make sure your application isn't hosing your PIC, try an earlier version or one of TK's sample applications.Yes i tried to upload J5_dout, which previously worked., but now it seems i cant upload anything.I would suggest you restart MIOS Studio, Enable [wait for upload request], then turn on your PIC. If you get nothing after 10-15 seconds, try disabling [wait for upload] and send via manual mode.I dont have my hopes up. as there is no uplaod request ever in MIOS Studio's Input logger.Whats the best moment to upload manually? in the first 2secs? Ive tried that, with no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackchaos Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 VedgeTake a break from uploads and carefully look at your core module.Make sure there are not electrical problems and check out the MIDI in/out wires.When you turn on the PIC, it sends a wakeup/upload request out the MIDI out port. You should be able to see it in MIOS Studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 VedgeTake a break from uploads and carefully look at your core module.Make sure there are not electrical problems and check out the MIDI in/out wires.When you turn on the PIC, it sends a wakeup/upload request out the MIDI out port. You should be able to see it in MIOS Studio.Thanks, but nogo in both cases.The core seems fine with another PIC ive swapped in. MIDI I/O and all.Secondly, the "broken" pic doesnt do an upload request like it once did upon bootup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Lord knows what happened to it, as has been said, TK has coded in safeguards against any problems during uploads... But if it doesn't send an upload request at all, and the same core works fine with another PIC, it might be time to re-burn the bootloader onto the pic.Edit: Beware - your core module might be faulty and frying PICs. I take no responsibility if the new PIC gets fried too! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Edit: Beware - your core module might be faulty and frying PICs. I take no responsibility if the new PIC gets fried too! ;)Yes. No worries, im a big boy. I just ordered a JDM kit from Smashtv (yeah i know newer pcs bla bla, but ive got like 10 PCs of varied ages here, so im bound to find one that works with it)Thinking back at what might happened to my PIC, im now convinced that i did something foolish. But i do think that the expert bootstrap docs dont tell the whole story: The text:* The primary loader gets active immediately after power-on for about two seconds. During this time the loader waits for a SysEx command which initiates a flash write. If this command is not received, the loader deactivates itself and MIOS will be started.* The secondary loader gets active after MIOS has been booted and the application is running. In difference to the primary loader, the secondary doesn't allow to overwrite the memory allocated by the operating system. This kind of protection saves you from destroying MIOS if your application overlaps the system area by mistake.What i understand, but i think is not clear is that in the first 2 seconds , you can upload EITHER a MIOS-based app,or the MIOS OS ITSELF. So if you have a crashing MIOS app curently installed, no need to reinstall MIOS (which i originally tought)- or in my case try anything without reading, thinking it was all absolutely dummy proof <- silly me. (remember i program this in the eveningsafter a whole day of safe VC6/VC2005 F5/F7 debuging, nothing-is-lost-you-can-always-fix-things-and-try-a-million-times-if-you-want-loop.So just for my records:If you have a crashing MIOS-based app installed and you reupload MIOS, is there something in the MIOS adress range/default setup/memory/config/whatever that tells MIOS theresno more app installed? Or you need to reinstall the app anyway since they have totally different ranges?I guess i need a pointer to the loadable adress ranges and how they influence each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackchaos Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 What i understand, but i think is not clear is that in the first 2 seconds , you can upload EITHER a MIOS-based app,or the MIOS OS ITSELF. So if you have a crashing MIOS app, no need to reinstall MIOS (which i originally tought)Your right. And if your app is wacking everything out, it may look like MIOS is is broken, especially if your looking at a garbled LCD, but you should still be able to resend your app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Yes. No worries, im a big boy. I just ordered a JDM kit from Smashtv (yeah i know newer pcs bla bla, but ive got like 10 PCs of varied ages here, so im bound to find one that works with it)I can't believe it! I tried JDM with ALL old my PCs as told.pentium1 200MMX runninng win98SE ->NOGOpentium2 400 running win95 OSR2.5 -> NOGOpentium3 733 running win98se ->NOGOwhat the hell, about to throw the JDM in the dumpster. Then just for fun, lets try thatin my main machine: AthlonX2 ASUS A8N-E NFORCE4's on board COM ports ...TADA!!!! fixed my PIC!Heck you wouldnt believe the LENGHT of that 9 pin cable i used too! must make 15 feet.Theres a ghost in the JDM desing... but lucky me i found ONE that works.So maybe replace "might not work on older computers" by "use PIC burner, or play the lotery with JDM."Now ill never win the million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Next time maybe try Winpic800? So far I haven't any reports of it not working with the JDM. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedge Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Next time maybe try Winpic800? So far I haven't any reports of it not working with the JDM. :Dtried that as well. voltages were wacky on the other PCs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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