about MB-6582 panel

[sineSurfer]

Hi, I have 1 question about your panel Wilba.

I'm thinking about doing a striped down variation of your panel layout to house just 1 SID.

Can it work mounting the control surface parts on veroboard? or I would need to do my own PCB?

I know the encoders can be mounted directly on the panel, but I'm worried about the switches and LEDS default spacing.

btw. are you left handed? just curious because of the filter encoders location on the panel, on the opposite side than pretty much any  other synth I've seen before ;D ;D ;D. I'm left handed and still looks strange to me hehe.

Thanks.

[Wilba]

Hi, I have 1 question about your panel Wilba.

I count 3.

I'm thinking about doing a striped down variation of your panel layout to house just 1 SID.

Can it work mounting the control surface parts on veroboard? or I would need to do my own PCB?

Maybe. I've used mostly 100mil (0.1") spacing, because my original control surface design was to be done on veroboard/prototyping board. So for example, a switch with LEDs near it will be aligned so the switch can be centred on a hole and the LEDs aligned between two holes. However, this alignment is not constant over the entire control surface... i.e. not all switches would be aligned to a common 100mil grid. To demonstrate this, open the FPD file and change the grid to 0.1" and see how some switches are centered on a grid dot and others are not. So the only way to use veroboard with the panel layout as it is, would be making small sections, and then you probably won't have enough space to mount them to the panel as it's very compact.

I don't know why you would want to do this anyway, the control surface PCB is cheap and the perfect compliment to the panel (that's the point!). Can you explain what you would want to do differently? If you're asking if you could do your own different panel design and use veroboard, then yes, you can do that, and construct it the same way (spacers glued to panel underside) but you would need to include more mounts as veroboard is a lot more flexible than a PCB with less holes and different material (fiberglass?).

I know the encoders can be mounted directly on the panel, but I'm worried about the switches and LEDS default spacing.

The encoder's aren't mounted directly to the panel (not the current panel design being produced) nor would it make sense to do so, the shafts would stick out far too much. You can mount them to veroboard too, the ones I use can mount nicely and the shaft can align to a hole in the board, the pins are approx. 200mil spacing and you can cut some notches to put the encoder's mounting tabs through the board and bend underneath (and even solder too).

btw. are you left handed? just curious because of the filter encoders location on the panel, on the opposite side than pretty much any  other synth I've seen before ;D ;D ;D. I'm left handed and still looks strange to me hehe.

I'm not left handed. The filter section is on the left because that's the only way I could fit all the sections on the panel and still maintain 1.1" horizontal spacing between all the knobs in the lower four sections. (This is more important than you would think.) The menu encoder to the right of the display, which is also on the top right, is more important (for right handers) ;D

[sineSurfer]

I count 3.

You got me there!

...open the FPD file and change the grid to 0.1" and see how some switches are centered on a grid dot and others are not.

yeees, i'm seeing the light!

I don't know why you would want to do this anyway, the control surface PCB is cheap and the perfect compliment to the panel (that's the point!).

Simple, as an exercise to learn more about all the process you went thru; if you didn't notice, you just paved the road for the rest of us ;), btw. i'll get one as soon as they are available again either from you or from smashTV for sure.

Can you explain what you would want to do differently? If you're asking if you could do your own different panel design and use veroboard, then yes, you can do that, and construct it the same way (spacers glued to panel underside) but you would need to include more mounts as veroboard is a lot more flexible than a PCB with less holes and different material (fiberglass?).

One thing I would try to change is the different sections placement, I been tinkering around with the FPD file enough to notice all your effort behind it, and that actually there is a small room to change stuff, if any.

So here comes the compromises, I would take out the led matrix, I can't see myself using it too much, but then again I'm a beginner about all this stuff and how the mbSID works. A practical way to see this is that l learn a lot, reduce costs on components and panel and hopefully at the end I get a good looking and sounding synth, and also unique. And still get the chance to build your version when it's available 8)

I would change the LCD to be centered and like half way to the top of the panel and a biiiiig encoder knob next to it.

And finally, my bain tells me to group together the things in the best confortable way for me to use:

OSC controls -> LFO controls

O O O O O -> O O

ENV controls -> Filter controls

O O O O O -> O O

Now, me being left handed probably this figure would get all reversed, something like this:

BigEncoder -> LCD

(  ) -> [____]

LFO -> OSC

O O -> O O O O O

Filter -> Env

O O -> O O O O O

weird to look at, I guess!

The encoder's aren't mounted directly to the panel (not the current panel design being produced) nor would it make sense to do so, the shafts would stick out far too much.

Yes, I noticed on your photos, I figured out that mounting the encoders directly into the panel may help to avoid glueing standoffs and give the panel more strength, that is if every encoder is soldered to the same piece of vero or at least 1 vero for each row of encoders,  am I right?; that's why it's important to know if they would fit into the current panel when mounted like this.

Of course I would need to move the drillings as a group to keep the same distances, or measure everything perfect.

And there is my friend the dremel to help those encoders to behave ;D

I'm not left handed. The filter section is on the left because that's the only way I could fit all the sections on the panel and still maintain 1.1" horizontal spacing between all the knobs in the lower four sections. (This is more important than you would think.)

I guess this is closely related to the PCB traces, right?

The menu encoder to the right of the display, which is also on the top right, is more important (for right handers) ;D

right you are, sir. :)

All this came because I will get a panel from FPE (the group buy for the mb808) and may be ordering 1 MB-6582 original and my modified version as well, to save some $ on shipment and customs duty.

(all this DIY stuff easily gets twice as expensive if you don't live in the States)

Pd. this is very educative for me, thanks a lot... would you mind if I come back with more questions as I go?

Later.

[sineSurfer]

Hi Again Wilba, could you help me to clarify this:

on the fpd file the grid setting is 0.1", so fpd screenshot and photo would be equivalent and fit nicely, right?

edited:it seems that I missed moving the leds .05" to the right

[Wilba]

I suppose that's right.

All I can remember is that the FPD file aligns a switch and the LEDs that "belong" to it so that they would all "work" on prototyping board. So for example, the centre of the LED won't be exactly over a hole but between two holes, horizontally or vertically depending on the arrangement (i.e. LEDs to right or below a switch). Exception to this is the matrix, in which the LEDs would have to be aligned over a hole so that they're aligned to both the switches below and to the left.

[sineSurfer]

after doing a lot of moving holes around on FPD I decided not to take the "mod wilba's panel" road, more pain that is worth. Instead  i'll build 1 stereo MBSID and wait for the next group buy for mb6582 PCB's, but still want to have a small change on the front panel:

No glued screws on the back of the panel at all.

besides having my doubts about the long term durability using J-Bweld glue, I'm pretty sue I can/will screw something when glueing.

So back to theory:

I figured out from your prototype photos that by adding extra holes(8, 4 for the corners, 4 on the LCD area) on the front panel to hold the control PCB , reducing the standoffs size(to 9/32") to allow the use of nuts and washers on the encoders(encoder holes on the front panel down to 10mm instead of 14mm) and changing switches 13mm tall to 9.5mm it would be possible to hold everything tight in there without any more worries on my side. :)

the biggest doubt is if the LCD can fit in there.

What do you think about all this Wilba?

and some  more questions:

which standoff size you used?

the LCD is it mounted over or under the PCB on your last design?

thanks!

[Wilba]

What do you think about all this Wilba?

I think you can do whatever you want to with the PCBs when you get them, but IMHO I wouldn't change the way the panel and PCB are attached and the gap between them without a good reason. JB-Weld has a good history of holding stuff together and we're only talking about supporting the pressure of pressing tactile switches and with 23 spacers spaced across the panel and  JB-Weld having a tensile strength of 3,960 psi, this is serious overkill anyway. In a test done by myself and a pair of pliers, I could not pull a spacer off with all my strength.

If you follow my easy construction guide (yet to be photographed, still waiting on panels), the chance of stuffing up is very small because the first step is gluing the corner screws onto the panel and this is done with panel and PCB clamped together and perfectly aligned already, then the next step relies on these screws already being perfectly aligned so the spacers go on perfectly aligned also. So you can only stuff up by not following instructions, which is less chance of stuffing up than trying something new, i.e. I've proved it works already.

and some  more questions:

which standoff size you used?

the LCD is it mounted over or under the PCB on your last design?

These questions are answered in the wiki.

[sineSurfer]

In a test done by myself and a pair of pliers, I could not pull a spacer off with all my strength.

If you follow my easy construction guide (yet to be photographed, still waiting on panels), the chance of stuffing up is very small because the first step is gluing the corner screws onto the panel and this is done with panel and PCB clamped together and perfectly aligned already, then the next step relies on these screws already being perfectly aligned so the spacers go on perfectly aligned also. So you can only stuff up by not following instructions, which is less chance of stuffing up than trying something new, i.e. I've proved it works already.

hehe you really are so confident about the J-B weld, I guess I can wait to see the construction guide :)