[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

ok!

Visualize the egg dripping off my face!!!

How dumb can one be!!!

I guess it will be a while before I graduate from "newcomer" status

Sorry

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

I've created a new board so that it's easier for you to continue the discussions.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Thorsten,

What new board did you create? I've been waiting since March to find out.

Regards,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thanks for the email address.  I  read for hours, which included some of your emails as well as many others that participate on the midibox site. Didn't know that it existed.  For my money, I think that HW2 will be super, but requires much more computing power.

All of the computers, midiboxes, soundcards, etc are all well and good, but alot of the quality of the final sound will depend on the audio equipment that produces the sound. Any recommendations on speakers, speaker enclosures, etc. I have a subwoofer with my surround sound setup, but don't see how I can utilize it for the organ unless I used the surround sound system for the amplifier, etc.  How do you hookup a subwoofer to a conventional stereo amplifier?

Regards,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Per s,

I have not heard of hauptwerk2.  Didn't know that a new version was coming out.  Any details?

I have become a fan of of the theater organ, but have not found any sample files to use with hauptwerk. Do you know of any?

Yes, there are commercial devices to detect pipe temperature for adjusting pitch.  Very expensive. but workable.  The question is can a analog temperature signal be processed by hauptwerk to tweek the pitch of  the samples?  The midio128 could handle the signal as an analog voltage. Perhaps if Thorston Klose reads this he may have some comment.

Since this thread deals primarily with midification  of the organ, your experience and comments are of interest to many.  Please keep us posted with your progress. Anyone else out  there with comments, just jump right in.

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Schultz_po

Why not use an analog in card with your midio128 for the potentiometer?

What specification are you leaning toward for your PC to run Hauptwerk?  Sounds like you are sold on Hauptwerk.  Why do you favor it over PCproject by Mick berg, or one of the other soundfont based programs? I assume that you are using the midio128 for all the keyboard and pedal encoding.  Have you given up on your original intent to augment your live pipes with electronic sounds, do you plan to do that with Hauptwerk.  Thats what I originally set out to do, but have not been convinced that it can be done without complicated temperature control to keep the electronic pitches in tune with the pipes.

Regards,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Robin,

Thanks for the input.

I followed the thread as you suggested and had some difficulty following much of it due to lack expertise in programming and code.

What I would like to be able to do is to sit at the console, select a combination of stops, press a button just below the keyboard and have the core save the selection as a digital word. There would be a reset button to cancel the setting and a call button to call up the combination. Being able to save maybe 5 combinations with a readout to  sort thru the 5 would also be good. Any comments.

I know that code to accomplish is not currently programmed into the core, however, maybe I could get some help from someone.

Regards,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thorston,

On reply #43 to this thread you said something about a new board that you developed that would make some of the issues we are discussing easier. Care to share what that board is?  

Going back to one of your earlier replys, you indicated that I could use a DIN/DOUT to enable another DOUT that is dedicated to a full rank of pipes. You told me how to use a 10k pull up resistor on pin #oe to do that.  On a regular organ, it is customary to be able to memorize a certain combination of stops at the console, by memorizing which stops are set. the combination is assigned to a combination switch which when set, turns on the memorized combination. The memorized combinations can be erased or changed by the organist.

Any suggestions.

Take a look at http:\\geocities.com/midiboutique. The MSCAN module in particular.  Petrov is accomplishing the organ issues with his mdec64 module.  Everything he is doing should be doable with a midibox, I'm sure. Is it all in the firmware? Has Robin Fawell made any progress on his firmware for the pipe organ? How about some input Robin!

Thanks,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Question to anyone how wants to answer:

In reading different threads on all subjects, I read about presets.  I don't know anything about Hammond organs or B4, etc. So what are presets and how does this apply to the organ?

Thanks,

Johnc

[Plugs, sockets, and cables]

I am following your dialog concerning connectors and cables.  Is there a connector that fits the single row pins on the core card that also attaches to ribbon cable. Sure would be easier to connect up. Soldering wire to the pins just doesn't excite me.

JohnC

[Connecting to virtual organs]

Hi Jimh,

Have been on the road for awhile without access to the forum.

Your comments are appreciated.  I will step through the setup process and verify that I did it per your comments.

Personally, I hope that you continue to develop the program for all of us that have a strong interest, and desire a means to stay connected with the organ, without tremendous expense.  I can imagine the cost to you in manhours developing the code. We users appreciate it.

Regards,

John W. Couvillon

[Connecting to virtual organs]

Jim Henry,

Thanks for your input on miditzer.

In terms of midibox, I will have one core (midio128) confugured for the great keyboard (lower 64 notes on channel 1) and the swell keyboard (upper 64 notes on channel 2) the midiin of core 1 will receive input from core 2 which is a midio64 which will send the pedal 32 notes on channel 3. Core No 1 then will pass all information thru to the PC. Will this configuration operate miditzer properly.  I had planned to use the balance of the 64 inputs on core 2 to stops. I assume that this can't be done.  The graphical desktop must be used to set stops.

I checked on the soundfonts, and I do have corg_r103a loaded in bank 025. I say that since  it appears in the soundfont window of the audioHQ. Also when I can play all stops on the screen keyboard included in audioHq.

When I load Miditzer, the tibia stop sounds like a timpani rather then the tibia.  Some of the sounds don't match the stop names, perhaps I am doing something wrong. Miditzer automatically uses bank 25?

concerning midiox and midiyoke, I have not used these programs as yet.  I just finished assembling the two cores and the din cards. Next is to tackle connecting these to my Moller keyboards and pedal board.  I do plan to return the console to playing actual pipework, so I don't want to disturb the existing wiring any more then necessary.  The Moller console I have has stops for 8 ranks, but was wired for 3, so ranks or parts of ranks do double duty. If you have had experience with the conversion of a moller console, any tips would be appreciated. By the way, I really like the sound of the theater stops. Can't wait to get it playing.

Have a Happy Easter,

john Couvillon

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

question to anyone

on the Literature for the MBHP DIN module, under the heading Used Components , There is a suggestion that if you are using the midio128,"you may want to drive the pins "high active"which means +5v on, 0v off. In this case please solder the two red isolated cables not to 5V but to 0V (VSS)" What two red isolated cables is it talking about? Does this mean that the common side of all the 10K pull up resistons on the DINX4 must be connected to ground instead of 5V? and the common sode of the switches connected to 5V instead of ground? confused!!! Does this mean that the diagram for connecting switches which is shown on  mbhp_dinx4_16enc.pdf will not work for the midio128?

Help!

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

John,

Thanks for the comments.

Personally, I can't see not having the bright sound of the higher pitch pipes.

I notice that the ranks visible on the picture of your organ directly behind the console. Do you have any under expression. Perhaps the 2' plus ranks could be in a small swell chamber with shades.

Currently, I have two cores constructed and 5 out of the 6 DINS finished. When that is completed I can hook up and run hauptwerk, or jorgan or jeaux, etc. That way I can at least practice and work on my playing while I look for pipes and hardware. In the mean time my console sits.

Regards,

JohnC

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thorsten,

you read my mind about the 10k resistors.

Question, are the low and high dc voltages of the Douts sufficient to switch the output driver on and off. if I attach the Dout to the OE# pins? I will draw up the circuit (in gif format) and post it.

john Henry,

Thanks for the input I'll check it out.

On a different note, I read a lengthy desertation on residence pipe organs, and the name recommended strongly that a residence organ not have pipes in the upper ranges, 2' stops and less. Seems the high pitch pipes overpower the space.  Any comments

Thanks to both of you!

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thorsten,

Ok, with the 10k resistor between the OE# pin and ground, If I use the inverse setting for the output on the organ stop core to get active low on an output pin,  and wire that directly to  the OE#pins, is the active low voltage on the organ stop core  off low enough to turn the driver on. also, and would the opposite state provide enough voltage to turn the driver off. If this works, then I can do all that I want to do with the stops.

I did not follow your comments about mios, etc. If the above works, then I am good to go with the standard program for ins and outs.

Lastly, I would much prefer to provide circuit sketches. What file type can I insert in these responses with the insert image button. .bmp, tiff, gif, jpg, ?

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thorsten,

Thanks for the input.

Question: I looked at the data sheet for the 74HC595, and note that the output data is not transfered to the output drivers unless  pin OE# is held low.  On the MBHP_DOUTX4  circuit boards the OE# pin is grounded.  I plan to use a core for each rank of pipes, 64 outs.  If I lift all of the OE# from ground, and wire them all together, I can use a relay driven by a stop output, or  invert the output on the stop dout to hold OE# high unless the stop is selected. Will that work?  Can you invert individual outout to active low instead of active high and leave the rest active high, or would I have to set separate core up with douts inverted?

Lastly,  I purchased the core kits with the bootstrap loader pre loaded.  I read up on the procedure using perl and midiox to transfer the edited .ini file to the core, but when is the mios operating system loaded on the pic. Did smashtv do it when the bootstrap loader was loaded, or what?  Confused.

Thanks,

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Question for anyone?

The note numbers for inputs and outputs in the .ini file for the midio128 are in hex which doesn't match the note numbers on the standard midi note list.  When I edit the .ini file I suspect that the note numbers must be in HEX. Yes? Does the soundcard recognize the hex or english units?

I need 128 inputs for the two keyboards. the .ini file is coded with note on/of for the first 64, then is coded with "B0" for the next 64. I want the second set of 64 to be on note on/off on  channel 2, so I just change the "B0" to "91" yes?

If I load the  edited .ini file into the pic and It doesn't work like intended, can I just re-edit and overwrite the previous attempt?

Going back to previous discusions about organ stops, etc., is it possible to use anoutput on one dout card to enable /disable another card? Would the card have to be modified? I know that I can do it with a relay and just turn power off to the card?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Johnc

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Thorsten,

Thanks much!

I am really glad that I tuned in to midibox. The input and information is super. Thanks Guys - all who have taken the time to respond.

I assembled my first core over the weekend, and am moving on with the program. Probably will have some questions when I get in to programming the pic.

John Couvillon

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Jim Henry,

Please look back on this thread.  I asked some questions about midizer dealing with multiple keyboards and pedal board, and configuration of the program. If you can answer the questions or shed some light on the subjest, it would be appreciated.  your program looks very attractive if configurable to include stops, multiple keyboards, etc.

Thanks,

JohnC

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Johnh,

Thanks for the input.  I am at the point in my conversion where I have to go one direction or another, PC change or controller. My concern is that I am not a programmer. the software side of all of this is a concern and I don't want to change horses in mid-stream.

Anyone else have suggestions?

Thanks,

John

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Mickey,

Thanks for the info.  Seems that the solution to my problem is quite complicated. Evidently the progam change approach is the way to go, however, the receiving pipe rank decoder would have to be programmed to respond to the various Progam changes sent from the stop switch encoder. I think that I will need some help on programming.

John

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

To anyone!

On my pipe organ conversion project the next step is to look at driving pipe palet valves (90 ohm- 12vdc Solenoids) .

Presently I will be assembling a midio128 and a midio64 to handle encoding the three keyboards. Although I need only 32 inputs for the pedal out of the 64 on the core for the midio64, the balance will be used for stop switches for the different ranks of pipes and presets(see below). So next question:

On the organ console, there are numerous stop switches dedicated to individual ranks of pipes  which in the hardwired relay world enable selected ranks. There are two manuals (keyboards 64 keys each) and a pedal board with 32 keys. If no ranks are selected, pressing keys does nothing.  There are groups of stop switches ( one for each rank) which play from each keyboard and pedal board and also couplers which allow ranks dedicated to one keyboard to also play on the other keyboard, or pedal.

Using midi, I want to accomplish the same things.

How should this be done?

Since in the hardwired world, the stop switch is really a bank switch which enables all pipes on a particular rank to play.  In midi terms, if  there is a core and douts for each rank. and all of these output cores are programmed to the same channel so all would receive the key on/off from the key encoders, in simplest configuration, all ranks would play at the same time. thowever, if you want to play only one selected rank, there has to be a means to enable only one core, while all others ignore the incoming key on/off signals. On the organ, a stop switch is used to perform that function. In midi terms, I need to enable selected output cores with stop switches for each rank and for each keyboard.

I plan to use the 32 spare inputs on the midio64 (pedal encoder) for the stop switch  inputs  to enable selected ranks. How do I do this with midi software, hardware?

In addition to enabling individual ranks, I would also like to enable selected, preset groups of ranks with one switch action (presets in organ lingo).

Can the Midio128 which I have already purchased be used in the process? I have .jpg photos of the hardware if it will help understanding the situation. Will the insert image button insert a .jpg? Otherwise how do I insert diagrams, or photos.

Any and all comments will be appreciated.

John

Hope that this is not too confusing for you non-organ chaps.

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Mickey,

question: I set up bank 25 on my soundcard for the theater organ sound fonts as recommended.  To check them out, I loaded the  audioHQ software, using the keyboard, located the bank 25 to check out the sounds of the different ranks. All seem to sound ok, however the tibia ranks all sound more like a drumbeat on a particular pitch, rather then the typical sound of a tibia pipe.  Any suggestions why?

I have the same soundfonts in two parts in banks 22 and 23, and the tibia plays ok there.

Thanks,

John

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Mickey,

I downloaded the midister software to try it out.  The display looks good.  The soundfonts are the same as for Jorgan, however, it doesn't appear to be configurable. Don't see any setup to assign the keyboards, pedalboards or stops. Did I miss something?

John

[Pipe organ Conversion to Midi]

Felix,

Sorry I didn't respond to your comments.

No, I have not gotten that far into the Mios stuff. My core and I/O modules are on order and I will get into it after assembling all of the parts and pieces.

Would like to exchange ideas more later, especially on the pipe drive end. I still don't understand all the ins and outs of the different instructions.

John