bodimix

Peter, can you elaborate on the mythical beasts that have been visiting you in dreams, and taking your words out of context? I'm having similar problems and have been looking for a solution- I like your site BTW-

The real question is what does the MIDIBOX project mean, and what is it's purpose. This is a question that everyone will have a different answer to, but maybe only TK can really say. If it's purpose is to act as a hub for innovations in the MIDI controllerand synth fields than it's goal would be to have a user/contributer base of the most active, inspired, and brilliant in the field which constantly drive it forward. IE a "homebrew" club. A way to allow people to create thier own instruments in an affordable manner... as an options to mass produced, overly priced commercial equiptment. Or, if it is to compete with other commercial (M-Audio et al), or niche (dopfler, pocket fader) products then it would seek to become a registered company, and then gain visibility and revenue. (Thru original products, licensing, or both). If it is to become a platform for second party developers to utilitze in their designs (IE Maven or other box creations) then a licensing program would be benifitial where the builder would be required to pay a fee and credit MIDIBOX technology in their documentation. Industrial / Product design is nothing to be overlooked... Thou the Maven runs on the brillant innards of the MIDIBOX, it's build is also something that I feel deserves credit. It looks like a nice, solid, attractive design. I know it's easy to bash it, but if you saw this posted as Midibox of the Week, and didnt know about the Sasha ordeal, you would love it. I also think that the reason Sasha didnt mention MIDIBOX or the builder is because he didn't want everyone and thier mother running out to build their own (or his design). Like he said, his whole drive to do this was to "add the smoke and mirrors" back to his set... he's still upset that the early days of electronic music DJ'ing have passed and he's lost his 'mystical' appeal. (and I do remember being a kid and watching DJ's spin at clubs/raves wondering 'how do they do that???' or imagining that it's the DJ who was responcable for this wonderful music, Only to find out later how simple it really was (technically that is... good choice in records and building a great set take real TALENT and a good ear). But your right, I'm sure it is tough to decide where to go on this. Many great companies start off in this manner... no funding, doing something for the sheer love of learning, advancing a technology, and having something unique to show for it. Now I'm not saying that MIDIBOX is the next Apple Computer - I'm not here to flatter or extend the truth beyond what it is, but at sometime or another in the life of a project, a decision must be made. Otherwise, it's human nature that someone else will take what you've done and esentially make the decision for you (in this world, someone like the Maven builder is the least of your worries... there are scumbags and corporations waiting to turn a profit on someone elses idea all over the place). And if the big guys really wanted to mass produce the Maven, a big company would use their own innards anyway, and you can't really argue that the design, in terms of functionality, owes itself just to MIDIBOX. It's in producing short runs, one off's, or prototypes of a controller where MIDIBOX really shines (from a commercial standpoint).

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While we are on the topic: http://www.monolake.de/monodeck.html Yes, the creators of Live have built themselves a box (although they confess to using doepher). http://www.doepfer.de/controller_example_1.JPG Andrew Neumann's box... the URL should tell you the technology behind it. http://www.doepfer.de/controller_example_2.JPG Richie Hawtin AKA Plastic Man - another box based on the doepher system. http://www.doepfer.de/pe.htm The other MIDIBOX - not as featured. as this one, (wheres the LCD!), but looks to be a much shorter learning curve.

On a side note... I believe that this was a one off as a personal controller for Sasha. Having said that, the builder himself was not mentioned. As far as him mentioning that it's built around a DIY tech found on the internet, I'm not so sure it's breaking any rules or laws... of course this would change if they were to try and mass produce it. Then I can see being angry, or asking for royalties or such. Now one other thing to consider... if you were to state in these 'articles about Sash'a something like "The Maven was built from a DIY kit that you can find on the internet at www.midibox.org." Think for a moment how flooded this place would get... and what type of people it would be flooded with. I'm just guessing that you would have about 1,000 new memebers asking in unison "Tell me how to make the Maven!", not intrested in furthering the community, pushing boundaries, but rather being like Sasha. You might want to consider it a blessing that MIDIBOX wasn't mentioned in these mags. The best thing to do might be to contact the builder and just tell him it would be nice for him to refrence MIDIBOX if he is interviewed by any tech magazines, hobby mags, or media that targets gearheads, or people that could offer this place a welcomed contribution. In addition, explain to him that as a builder, it's his responceability to educate the community on his endevors (ie. if you take, you should give back). Tell him that it would be nice if he posted the project here and explained a bit about his methods, especially where he found his parts and case design, areas where this box appears to excell. The MIDIBOX project is obviously not looking for fame, nor should it. If the MIDIBOX design ever gets mass produced (which they should not) then there is reason to want quotes in the big "DJ" mags. I happen to like the underground spirit here, there is a great community of helpfull and intelligent people here, and quite frankly, it's mention in those types of magazines that could threaten it. When I started this post it was more to poke fun at the fact that Sasha is coming off like a pioneer of sorts. His hipocracy was also strange as he is quick to blame "trainspotters" for exploiting DJ'ing by buying turntables and playing new records / whitelables... while he himself has chosen to jump on the "Laptop musician/DJ train" which has been rolling ahead full speed way before him., and then self-annoint himself as a pioneer or a first to do this. just my 1 cent.

Are there any hacks to get the LCD on the MIDIBOX LC to display tracknames that are in an Ableton Live song? What about getting the motorfaders to respond to Live?

All grumbling aside, it does look like a very nice controller albeit a bit bulky. I wonder if this Maven fellow designed it around a MIDIBOX spec?

It's always intresting how the celebrities in a given area push a technology to the public. Usually it's something thats been around for a while but recieves very little attention until someone famous strats to use it, or confronts the press with it... http://feed.proteinos.com/item/2665 So enter the age of Live and the control interface... the new age of the DJ (or something). Take it away Sasha!

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2005/03/14&pages=A6&seq=36 Two more expensive models... http://feed.proteinos.com/item/2587 This one is rumored to be release for a little over $600

oops... I was so excited I didn't bother to search first... sorry. So cool tho... but doesnt look like it's portable... Although, a small, palm sized, battery operated LED projector was just released... it can throw a 40" image from a little more than a foot away... I wonder that if you coupled it with a little camera, and tracked movements in MAX/MSP sometihng similar couldent be Also with mini-ITX becoming so cheap (the fanless 800mhz CPU+MOBO is now under $100) I've been thinking about creating a dedicated, CPU controlled, all purpose MIDI interface. In theroy, you could put together a tiny system thats battery powered, running linux off a CF, sending MIDI data over 802.11x for under $200 (w/out the LCD of course). But how cool would it be to just have this unit sense the location and color of objects (via a tiny camera in the unit), then anything could control the output... laser pointers, led keychains, little color blocks, drawing/painting, motion, etc... If only they made a version of MAX/MSP for Linux. I suppose anything that was created would then have to be done by scratch...

http://www.jamespatten.com/audiopad/ ???

The range on the particular "cheap" model (Logitech Wingman Pro) is rated at 20-30 feet. Which isn't going to allow too much freedom, but it would allow you to stray a little during a live set, maybe go to the bar and get some drinks, or dance like a fool for a little bit. My idea is to re-fit an old calculator (circa 1970-1985) to control Abelton Live functions. The solid, industrial style / designs of old calculators are the BEST. Often I try to find a reason to buy some and use them simply because they look so cool... but who needs a calculator these days??? Using one as a MIDI "remote" seems like a great excuse to use one. A nice red, green, or blue backlit LCD would replace the old LED's perfectly, and then I can rewire the buttons to mute/unmute tracks, change scenes, etc. Maybe add an analog joystick (for x/y) and map three or four buttons to keys (to mess with / play a simple bassline or lead or filter(s) / trigger random samples). So I figure if I can make the device wireless as well it would be a super little Live remote thingy to gig with. i am certain I can do it w/ just the gamepad (because Live an FlStudio both accept gamepad as a MIDI controller), but I really want to utilize the LCD (so I can see which tracks are muted/unmuted, or what the current scene is). tell me you wouldent want to stick a SID in this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=413&item=6167193247&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW#ebayphotohosting If I have any luck merging the gamepad / RF technology w/ midibox I'll let you know.

Heh, nah, proving your point to be pointless along the way is a sign of a good post hehe - joke- Funny thing, the link you sent has a feature with a good friend of mine (onyx) doing a demo with the Kenton...small world. The thing is just so bulky tho, seems unnecessary ??? not to mention the price (equally bulky :( ) You would think that part of the reason to go wireless is also to minimize the intrusiveness of the device. What it loses in terms of being "tethered", it makes up in size. As far a the Joystick thing goes... it's always possible that the software or drivers have some sort of error correction built in... perhaps it will drop a hanged note (or punch rather) if the stream is intrupted, or make a guesstimate by comparing the headers of the bit to the butten pushed, I dunno. But whats intresting is using the joystick in a game that is musical and heavily time based where latency and accuracy count. A game like Dance Dance Revolution is controlled with the joystick much like it's a midi controller - Same with Parrapa the Rappa game(s). The analoug joysticks are quite nice, and the buttons are pressure sensitive (jump higher! press harder!). At the end of the day, the gaming industry is soaked with money, and wisely alot goes into R&D. And because of the critical mass of gamers buying new stuff all the time, you get highly advanced products that are cheap in relation to other fields. Though there are many muscians out there, I can say with confidence that there are exponetially more gamers. Which is why you can buy a sleek looking wireless joystick for around $6 when it's bloated MIDI counterpart adds a couple of 0's. And it seems only just recently, companies have seen the demand for various controllers. Look back only 4 to 5 years or so and there were so little options (Phatboy and Kenton Control Freak were like the only two knob toys around). We can thank amature audio apps like Reason and Fruityloops for helping to open the market up some more and create more demand. In fact, I can see someone like Oxygen or Evolution releasing a wireless offering for cheap for the gamer cum musician crowd. I've seen some mention on various websites of people gutting the gamepads, using the inputs for performance (MIDI triggers), but like I had mentioned, no one shares the schematics or the DIY (one woman charges $250 for a seminar you have to attend where she discloses the info). In my case, I can see gutting a gamepad and transfering it to a custom enclosure / switching the buttons out with ease. But I really want to use MIOS, have access to the LCD, etc. So it's give and take... Who knows, I might just pick up one of these cheap gamepads and have a look inside, if only for the sake of science... maybe someone will be able to identify a possible solution to routing output from the PIC into the gamepad PCB. Then we can write up some rumblepad features into MIOS. >:( :o ;) :D

I understand the importance of error checking, and how delicate MIDI is in general. But I had figured if a gamepad could be wireless then MIDI could as well (since gaming requires such low latency and accurate responce <<you dont see Chun-Li doing random kicks and punches when using a wireless>>).

So I've been doing some lurking 8) for quite a while, and this project looks great. I am excited about building my own Midibox. I have some questions about features that will dictate my design and what parts I end up buying. I was hoping someone could help me out : 1. Motorized faders: If I'm not mistaken, these type of faders will "read" location info from the host app, and then move themselves into position based on that data? For instance, in Logic or FlStudio I have 8 different motor faders linked to 8 different volume controls in software... when I open my project, the faders on my box should move into place accoring to the software? 2. Ive seen Motor Faders, but not Motor Pans (or knobs). Do they also sell motorized knobs? 3. I've had a look at the MIOS commands, and it looks like there is avid control of LCD output. I was wondering if there is any way to have my host app (say Logic or FlStudio) send data to my box, and then have it output on the LCD? I know this is highly unlikely but it would be cool. For instance to send the name of a MIDI track in FlStudio or Logic to my box's LCD when I select it/ 4. I've done several searches for wireless here and havent found much in the way of a solution. I've done some searching online and while many have discosed plans for a wireless MIDI device, there arent any schematics or details. Does anyone know of a "low price" way to make a wireless Box? Building a wireless Midibox has so many advantages... being able to "break away" from the computer to compose music (just sit on a sofa and program a beat) or perform in a live situation (walk around the club, even dance while structuring a track in live via track mute/unmute. There arent any commercially available wireless solutions (except for some bulky add on box selling for a few hundered bucks!) With the price of Wireless gamepads selling on avarge for $8 on Ebay, finding a way to hack and integrate the RF transmitter into a Box would be dirt cheap and ideal. Who knows, there may be a way to direct output from the PIC to the PCB of the gamepad as opposed to a serial/MIDI port? ??? 5. Almost done! ;) Is it necessary to have a soddering gun and tools? If I order the PCB Core kit from Smash, do the parts just bend into place or do I need to sodder everything to the PCB? 6. One of my ideas for a box would be to integrate "finger triggers" basically mini MPC style rubber pads that I can play with my fingers to make beats. I know about Piezo's but because of the small size of the device I'm thinking that the shock from hitting it will cause false triggers on the other pads. I've also looked into FRS (Force Resistor Sensor) which looks ideal. They are small, relatively cheap, and more accurate. Has anyone used these? Know where to buy material that is similar to the nice rubber pads on the Akai MPC series drum machines? 7. Power... AC vs. Battery vs. USB. Has anyone made a design which uses battery power? Will the new USB module under developement be able to provide power over the USB? (I think I've read somewhere that it can reliably up to 5v?) If you can answer one or all of the questions I would be very grateful, thanks! :D