highrider
-
Posts
38 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Posts posted by highrider
-
-
Why are you using resistors which you don't know the value, and which are much lower resistance than those specified in the parts list (220 ohm)?
They were supplied with LED's. Stupid mistake.
-
What kind of LEDs are you using? Ultrabright LEDs with low resistance resistors might result in some "ghosting"... LEDs being lit because that row was lit in the previous column of the LED matrix.
I'm using either 1000Mohm or 47ohm resistors (the bands are too close for me to distinguish where the first band is) with diffused Red LED's 250 mcd. I have attached a picture of the glowing LED's. This is how the CS appears on start up. I've changed all the 165n's and 595's. I'm confident it's not them.
-
"Sync" LED just isn't used yet... I had planned for it to toggle between master and slave (i.e. LED on when it's slave to MIDI clock) but I never got around to actually coding it up (or suggesting to TK to do it).
Re depth encoder, can you check you're testing the right pins? The Env Depth encoder isn't connected to D0 and D1 of J3, it's actually D2 and D3. See pic.
Regarding shorting to ground... this CAN happen depending on the position of the encoder, i.e. those pins WILL short to ground as you turn the encoder, that's how it detects the turn, as one or both will be shorted to ground.
Wilba, thanks that picture really helped. The fault was in the IC in U18 after replacing it with a new one everything just worked perfectly including the MOD Matrix and all the LED's that wouldn't light up before. Now I have a question, is this normal? Does the 74HC165 actually make all of that work or have I fixed something without knowing it?
Finally, after putting the case together I've encountered two more problems. The EDIT button and LED don't work (I assume because of the LCD causing a short) and some random LED's are on at a very low brightness even when not selected. Has anybody had this problem before?
Thanks for your help,
Vlad
-
Encoders only going in one direction suggests that one pin is always shorted to ground. This could be at the encoder (one pin of the encoder is always connected to ground) or it could be in the tracks leading to the bottom, the cables or on the base PCB.
You should be able to remove the ICs in U16-U19 (to be sure) and with power off, test continuity between ground and the two "signal" pins of the encoder, while turning the encoder, you should get "beeps" from the multimeter from both pins. Both pins will be connected to the 5V rail via 10K resistors but this shouldn't affect continuity testing between the pin and ground, I think.
I have found a short between pins D0 and D1 of JD3. These pins are also shorted to ground. Resoldering the wires hasn't solved the problem. Taking the "DEPTH" encoder hasn't helped either. I triple checked the tracks and it looks like there isn't anything to cause a short starting from U17 all the way upto the encoder.
Also I have uploaded the LED test up. All the LEDS that didn't work still did not light up apart from the sync led. Does this one work only when there is a master MIDI device connected to the MB6582 and it's sending tempo info?
Thanks
-
This might not be your problem, but depending on the encoder brand you're using, they can be quite twitchy. I had several of my alpha brand mouser encoders stop working after the pins got just *slightly* bent. Bending them back straight fixed the issue. I actually had to open up one or two and bend the contact wipers inside the encoders. They're very simple mechanically, so if the issue is with the encoder and not with the wiring, they're easy to fix.
Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately this didn't solve my problem.
I opened the encoder (from Voti) made sure the wipers are straight and the right height. I even put the metal ring back to where it was (to make it detent again). After putting it back together it still doesn't change value.
Than I changed the depth value with the menu encoder, all the way to -127. Interestingly after trying to modify it with the encoder in question the value would rapidly go up all the way to 127 regardless of which direction I would turn the encoder. Also, If I keep turning the encoder anticlockwise the value changes only in very small increments (1-2) but immediately returns to 127. It's as if it's been pulled there.
I am confident it's not the wipers unless this is what you experienced with your encoders?
V!
Update :
As it turnes out with an encoder stuffed (i tried two different ones) the result is the same. Depth values go up to 127 and barely nudge from that value. On certain occasions the CS freezes on the envelope screen i.e. everything works but I can't navigate back to any other editing screen. Note : this doesn't happen when there is no encoder stuffed.
I'm shure there is a short or damaged track/pad somewhere thats causing this behaviour in the envelope section but following the tracks from where the encoder used to be I see nothing wrong with the PCB.
Could it be the 165N's?
-
I managed to fix two sections . There was a damaged track going from the diode to the LED in the CONTROL and in the SID ENGINE sections. Now the LEDS light up like they should!
-
If you haven't already, double check that your LCD board isn't shorting on the CS. This has been the cause of many weird and wild problems in the past.
Thank you for the advice Filch. I have removed the LCD from the CS. Apparently there were no shorts because all of the problems persist. Otherwise it works as it has before.
V!
-
Once again I ask for your help. Hopefully this will be my last troubleshooting session.
I have successfully connected the CS and LCD. The MB6582 is functional through all 4 SID engines but there are a few quirks that don't let me seal this beast of synth inside the box just yet.
I'll Start with the LEDS
1) the whole vertical row 3 of the mod matrix is not working.- fixed
2)Waveform LEDs don work (although waveforms change when I press the respective button)- fixed
3)Control ENV MISC KNOB LEDS don't work (again this section is fully operational)
-fixed
4) LR SID section LEDS don't work while sids can be selected.- fixed
5) Sync MODE LED doesn't work ( just the LED)-was not a problem
6) SID ENGINE 2 LED doesn't work as well as the button i.e. it can't be selected even though I can play it through MIDI CH2 - Fixed
Buttons
1) The aforementioned SID Engine 2 button. I can change the engine via the menu encoder and buttons. - fixed
1)2) The horizontal row of the mod matrix. I presume that it's not working because any two buttons of this row pressed at the same time don't change the MODE.- fixed
Encoder
1)- Just the Depth Delay Encoder dowen't work at all.- fixed
One more thing that may help :
When I select LFO waveforms the LEDs in the LFO 123456 section light up but very dimly (one at a time with every push of the button in the wave selection).
I have noticed that through out the CS this happens quite often . The light is so DIM it can barely be distinguished from being fully of.
I have went through all the connections between the CS and Base and have found no shorts and no breakage in connection.
After tracing the tracks on the CS diagram I couldn't establish any pattern to determine the source of the described faults.
To the best of my knowledge the PIC's and SID's are in full working order. Patches change/notes play through all SID engines.
So far I think that I might have just damaged the non working LEDs apart from row 3 in the MOD matrix. I will do the LED test next and post the results.
Please reply if you have experienced similar problems or have any advice to share on how to carryout the troubleshooting.
Many thanks,
Vlad
-
Sorry I misunderstood you. Good luck in finding those knobs!
-
Can anyone tell my where to get the feedback knobs featured on the back of Wilba's original MA-6582?
... or suggest a good alternative.
I'm in the UK, so a European supplier would be preferable, but I can do international orders if I can get just 4 units, and postage is reasonable.
a|x
You need these :
I have just ordered the exact same pots so if you need any I can send/give you the remaining 5 free of charge. Have you built the control surface yet?
-
... if you really want to test things, you could use the changeid program to make another PIC ID=00 and try that in the first Core.
The problem could be related to the CAN bus (i.e. master PIC->slave PIC communication fails) OR maybe even MIDI In to the slaves stops working (so you get a stuck note because Note Off is never received, or mute because Note On is not received anymore).
I agree that the logical step is to change the ID of each problematic pic. Unfortunately I don't understand how to compile the hex file with provided code in the readme file's. I tried to read the wiki but I failed to make sense of it...so I'll have to pass on this one.
I need know if I can exclude bad soldering as a possible cause. If my master PIC 00 is working in each socket without a problem this means that all the MIDI comms are fine throughout the 4 cores, right? If understand correctly it's not different for the slave PICS i.e. if one PIC is receiving MIDI then the others should as well.
Holding the note/going mute: How exactly are you testing that the other PICs stop working?i.e. what is your current setup, how do you make all four PICs/SID engines operate?
I have a fully loaded PCB (all IC's in their sockets) no resistors for LED's though. No LCD just the base. I have the SID rc35 app uploaded to pics 00 01 and 03. 02 has the test tone atm. Earlier when I had all pics with mb sid rc35 the behaviour of pics was the same (note on hold or mute after 2-3 seconds). I'm assuming that the pics stop working because they no longer respond to midi notes/cc's until I reboot.
you should try something like an arp sequence so you can hear it still "working" and know the PIC is still working (as opposed to stopped completely)With an arp sequence going from my midi controller (akai mpk 49) the sound still stops after 2-3 seconds on pics 01 02 03.
I have checked the voltages on all the IC's and I'm getting 4.88V (sids 8.87).
I can still hear what I play through channel 1 output after the other stop. Pic 02 outputs the test tone even with 01 and 03 not working.
Btw Can I re-upload MIOS 1.9G to each pic to format the bank sticks and to exclude the possibility of wrong software uploads causing the problem? I just remembered that I have uploaded the vintage bank 4 times (with MB sid editor) to PIC 01 (by changing the bridge on J11). I haven't understood the manual correctly and thought that I have to upload the bank through each core to have the patches working on each core. I did this because previously the vintage bank was only available through pic 00 while other cores only had the lead sound.
Perhaps by uploading the bank 4 times to PIC 01 I have caused this problem. Actually the patch I hear after power on is not a lead sound at all, it's more of sequenced riff...
Can you confirm that it's alright re upload MIOS 1.9G so that I can start over?
Thanks !
-
HI guys, just a quick question.
I don't read datasheets well but I'm thinking that this is the right encoder
If I'm wrong could you please recommend an online store in the EU where I can order the right encoders? The links in the wiki are either german shops (I can't read German) and I can't find any reasonably priced encoders on UK links
Cheers!
-
It would probably be easiest to just replace the transistor and see if the problem is fixed, thus proving it was probably the transistor at fault. It's highly unlikely any of the other components are broken, as they're all resistors and capacitors which don't often fail from soldering too long, unlike transistors.
Wilba, thanks for replying so soon! You helped me so much! It was a broken resistor leg that was the problem. I couldn't see it earlier because the resistor was in an upright position and the second leg was concealed from view. So as I was trying to perform a continuity test I accidentally pressed on it and it turned out wobbly. I put a new one in and moments later the SID sang a 1Khz tone. Now I have every output fully functional.
My final task is to determine whether I have broken PIC's 01 02 03. They all work fine with the test tone app. All have successfully uploaded MB sid app V35. The core modules work fine with my only fully operational 00 PIC , but the 01 02 03's play for a couple of seconds and then either hold the note or go completely mute. Voltage checks have passed.
All I could find by searching the forum is that people with similar problems had to buy new PICS , but I couldn't find a single confirmation that this resolved their issue usually the threads just stop after that.
It seems that I'm missing something and I don't want to just order more pics without being at least 90% sure that the PICS are actually broken.
One more thing. I haven't put the Pics in slave mode as I don't have the menu button yet. I have just uploaded MB sid to each pic while moving the jumper on J11 with each PIC in it's respective core. Should I try to upload the MB SID app from core 1 only?
(R80 in place, diodes positioned correctly)
Am I providing the right information?
Cheers!
Vlad
-
This isn't "aimed" at fussylizard, just a general thought: The chance that you actually get a broken PIC from Smash is very very small. Typically you made a mistake somehwere. A lot of times builders blame the PIC when it turns out it's something else - blaming the PIC seems popular. Smash is a really nice dude and does his very best to make sure you get good stuff, his packing is nuke-proof and his prices are as low as can be - please don't abuse his niceness by "guessing" your PIC is wrong and "demanding" a refund/replacement before you've done some severe troubleshooting and KNOW it's not something else or YOU that broke the PIC :)
This is off topic.
I have been troubleshooting for ages and I'm almost sure that 3 of my PIC's are damaged. If they are damaged than it's more likely that they have been damaged by me (no guessing) and the last thing I would do is "demand" Tim to reimburse me for it. But I'm sure you're not aiming at me anyway.
-
One of my 6582 SIDs is not outputting the test tone. It's a working SID )) I have used it in other sockets. The voltages are fine. I'm confident the problem is in the audio buffer area because I managed to get a test tone going out to my headphones by bridging pin 8 of U1_SID3 with J3_SID3 out pin. I also managed to nearly deafen myself by doing that.
I'm not that skilled in electronics but from my point of view all the connections seem fine (if slightly messy). Can somebody suggest how to find where the signal breaks in that section? Also is there anyway of determining if the transistor in T1_SID3 is alive or not?
A continuity test wouldn't work here because this section is full of caps, right?
Thanks for reading!
Vlad
-
Pic's with ID headers 01 02 03 (SmashTV) are not functioning correctly. With all the PIC's in place (J11 jumper on "1") the mb-6582 plays only for a few seconds and then goes mute sometimes the note just holds.
All my SID's are working flawlessly -I checked them by installing them on the board and putting the working PIC 00 in each core socket.
All voltage checks passed.
I'm almost convinced that I have three damaged PICS (damaged by me of course). I'm planning on ordering more unless someone had similar symptoms and managed to resolve them.
Oh yeah almost forgot PIC 00 works like a charm on all 4 sockets.
Thanks,
Vlad
-
Just a quick followup to close out this thread. I ordered a new PIC from SmashTV (got it last week but have not tried it yet). However, SmashTV saw this thread and insisted on replacing the dead PIC at no cost and sent me a refund. So I just wanted to let folks know that SmashTV really has gone the extra mile here which just further confirms my complete confidence in his products and services.
Now hopefully tonight I'll have some time to check out the new PIC...
Thanks again Tim!
Hi, I'm having a similar problem with my pic's apparently .Has replacing them solved your problem?
thanks!
Vlad
-
FWIW this was resolved by replacing the three bad cores with new ones from Smash. Fortunately Core 3, which was a little sketchy there initially, appears to be doing ok for now. Electrical tape on the socket worked out also as a failsafe.
Damn It seems like I am having the same problem
testtone app no sids
U1 SID 1 no sound
U2 SID 1 good
U1 SID 2 good
U2 SID 2 good
U1 SID 3 no sound
U2 SID 3 good
U1 SID 4 good
U2 SID 4 good
however, with 6582a's installed through the test tone application i get
U1 SID 1 good
U2 SID 1 no sound
U1 SID 2 good
U2 SID 2 good
U1 SID 3 really quite
U2 SID 3 no sound
U1 SID 4 really quite
U2 SID 4 no sound
I have really messy joint on R4 SID3 . actually there is a missing patch on the bottom side of the pcb, but it's not the leg going to T1 SID3 and C4 Sid 3
On U1 SID1 I have similar problem but this time with C4 SID1.
It thought they were the problem but after reading this point I am more and more convinced that the 3 PIC's (00; 02; 03) out of four are my problem (and of course my poor soldering skills).
Could you or somebody please suggest a possible troubleshooting sequence before I spend any money on new PIC's?
Thanks!
-
Hi,
I think I successfully build the sammichSID. However, where can I download the default sound patches? After I install the bank sticks, Sammich has format all of them. There is no sound patches in there. I read the manual, "The default patches are found in the sammichSID synth release package "preset folder" ". I don't understand this. Where can I download this release pacakge? I have been looking over and over in the web site and couldn't found it. Can you give me a link where I can download this patches?
Regards,
vintag-golden
They are on your hard drive the folder should be called something like this midibox_sid_v2_0_rc35.
-
No, do not try PSU Option B.
Basically you should have 5V at C3 "+" pin. Right? TEST IT!
Connect this to the other places shown. Maybe you forgot to connect it to C3 "+" pin.
Again I'm assuming the track between the power switch and C3 "+" pin is good. TEST IT!
You need to actually do some troubleshooting for yourself now. If I say "connect a pin with 5V on it to J4" then that means you need to actually solder a wire and test that it is connected, not just report back "no it doesn't work".
Use the continuity tester on your multimeter (or resistance tester) and test which points indicated by the red wires on my diagram are connected (i.e. ~0 ohms) and which are not. Including C3 "+" pin.
Ok, thanks that was really helpful. Now I know how to test continuity with my multimeter, which lead to the problem at C3 + pin. On of the patches came of so i had to scrape of the track (5V rails) and connect it to the eloctrolyte + leg on the sunny side of the PCB with a bit of wire. Also my ground pin for the capacitor at C3 was ****ed so I connected it with a wire to J25. Can I connect it to the neighbouring vacant C13 gnd pin?
The rewiring you suggested earlier solved my problem (or perhaps and more likely the break in connection between the patches at C3) as a result we have 5.05 V reading at J4.
Now that I have the correct voltages throughout the circuit a warm glowing sensation fills the solar are plexus and I feel an enormous sense of wellbeing throughout.
Thanks again for your patience and advice.
Vlad
-
Yes, you say J73 has damaged pads/tracks and is probably the cause of no 5V after this point, i.e. at J4.
J71 and J72 seem to be good if you are getting 9V at J4. So leave J71 and J72 alone. They are not the problem. Missing 5V at J4 is the problem, and is probably only because of a problem at J73.
Solder wires as shown to connect up the 5V tracks which are not being connected due to J73 being damaged.
The red wires also show what SHOULD be connected by J73 being bridged correctly... i.e. points which should be 5V for PSU option A.
I have just rewired it according to the image but I don't still don't have the 5V. Maybe I should try PSU option B?
Cheers!
-
Try adding wires like this picture.... that should bypass any problems with J73 being totally stuffed.
You may not need to do all these connections.
Ok, I will make all the connections in the morning and reply with the results! By J73 being totally stuffed you mean the bridge being removed and all the other bridges for PSU option A remaining intact? I just want to make sure to avoid problems when troubleshooting.
And a big thanks for helping me! I'm already making plans to have someone photograph the process of making the CS. My goal is to make a step by step "do this do that" with an elaborate picture gallery. For someone as unexperienced as me in this field the current CS walkthrough seems a bit daunting (mostly because english is not my first language).
Vlad
-
Try soldering a wire between J73 pin 2 (or C3 "+" pin) and J71 pin 1.
Tried both ways (J73 pin 2 (or C3 "+" pin)) it still doesn't give my 5V at J4, but it has increased from 0.26V to 0.56V.
However, I have left all the bridges in place on J71, J72 and J73. Should I take the bridge of at J73?
Also, I'm measuring the same 0.56V at the "+" on C3 relative to ground J4. Could it be that I have destroyed the C3 capacitor?
Finally, I'm getting close to 5V only on pins 4,5 on S1 (4.70V) GND being J4 with the power ON. With the power OFF i can read 5V on pin 1 of S1 again relative to GND of J4.
It's likely that I have damaged the connection on J73 while soldering and desoldering the bridge.
Now I'm really stuck. Can you tell me what I should measure so that we can together establish where the source of the problem is?
Thanks,
Vlad
-
No, you're measuring 5V correctly... pins labelled 5V should be +5V relative to GND pins, everywhere, for all PSU options.
I think you overlooked my solution:
The problem MIGHT BE a missing bridge at J73, which connects the 5V out of S1 to the rest of the 5V tracks on the PCB.
It's the only explanation for 5V at the power socket and power switch and not anywhere else.
OK, it worked for a bit and than it stopped working. :shocked:
I've located the problem, the patch on all the pin's of J3 and J73 came off due to my poor soldering there is also a damaged track in between the first pins of J3 and J73.
Is there any way I can work around these connections?
Thanks,
MB-6582 CS troubleshooting
in MIDIbox SID
Posted
Ok the Edit mode LED and button work. Work as in mechanically work, the LED lights up the screen doesn't change though. What is it's purpose? I assume once it's depressed :sad: all the changes I make to the patch/ensemble will be stored once I save them, no? I'm slightly confused here because I have saved patches without pressing the edit button.
I will change the resistors over the weekend and report back, then I will put the the knobs and the MB-6582 will be finished. It has a pretty white case so photo's coming up :ahappy:
Thanks for your help guys!