tonyn

Taking a look at the core circuit board, J5A has analog inputs, and is a dual header for a 10 IDC. So I can use it and not worry about adding a SIN header. But now the delema: Do I need to build a small AIN x 1 board , that will connect to the pot, or can I input the pot to analog pins directly? Anyone have any specs on connecting up a swell pot to the core, and the midibox code?? The note on/off for the pedalboard is streight forward to me. But I need the right codes for a Main swell pedal.

OK. The terminals are wired up to the pedalboard contacts, the swell is wired up, and everything is laid out and the mounts are in. I ended up cutting about 3 inches off of the length to get a good run for the terminals. In doing so my pedalboard cable barely reached. So I added a strain relief for the cable so it doesn't pull the wires out of the terminals, and I have a bit of play. I ended up installing the ground terminal barrier strip on the other side to catch the ground wires from the pedalboard. There are 2 grounds I ran up from the pedalboard contacts, a yellow 18 gauge, and a black 22 gauge. The more grounds the less resitance to ground, so it doesn't hurt to do more grounds than you need. The swell pedal pot I wired 3 22 gauge wires to it. I color coded them for grey and white on each end of the pot, and the wiper is red. Then I checked the resistance as the pedal moves, and on one end it's 10k, the other 5k. I took note. This was a bit dificult to solder in place, took a bit of cordination. I just tacked on the wires, and left the old cable, until I decide if I want to use it or not, etc. I then checked the terminals for the wires from the pedalboard to ground, to make sure no contact was shorted to ground. The next step required someone else to help. My son just came home from school so this was a good job for him to help me with. While I checked the terminals, I had him push the pedalboard contact tabs one by one to make sure I had contact. All work except pedal #2, so I'll have to look at that later. It maybe the terminal connection, or a contact spring wire. The contact board can be somewhat worked on in place. Moving a contact spring shouldn't be hard, if that is what it is(I hope that is all it is). Now to remove the din and core circuit boards and solder 1 din board (I only need 1 din for the pedalboard, although I planned for 2), and one core board. I'll also take a look where I am going to pick up an analog from the PIC. I may have to add some sin(single in line) headers. Avishowtech didn't provide any sin headers for the analog, so I will have to see... Here' a bunch of pictures for you.

I took a day to thoroughly think out my layout for the core/din layout mounts for the pedalboard. I reversed it because: 1. I did not want to cut any more of of the wire lengths to the pedalboard than nessary. The way the ends of the cable ended for the old cable was that number 1 was the longest, and it was cut down from there. 2. I wanted to move the core a bit away from the speaker so it didn't interfear with noise, etc. 3. I have easy access to the core this way and fuse holder to solder, replace fuses, etc. 4. I moved the ground barrier strip to the other side since it makes more sense to run the ground wires over the terminal strip to the ground strip. I may also wire the fuse to the common or ground side, instead of the hot side as I did with the keyboards. The reason for this that was an afterthought, was that if you inadvertingly touch the fuse holder, being fused to the ground side you will not short anything or get shocked(unless you are also touching a hot side too). Safety! But I like to live dangeriously, and, to be consistant with the keyboards, I'll just fuse the hot side for the pedalboard too. :pirate: OK now to wire up the terminals, and install the mounts...

I just checked out the resistance of the swell pedal pot to see if I can use it. It IS 10k! Except it maybe logarthmic, and I may need linear. But at least I can use it to start. Now all I need to do is wire things up, and solder a core and din board.

OK, I am planning out my core/din layouts now for the pedalboard. Even though I am only intially going to use one din, I am planning for 2, just in case I want to add velocity later. There are 3 terminal strips per din. Each terminal strip has 12 connections. 12x3=36 Each din has 4 10 pin cables. Only 8 are used for 32 wires from the din to the terminal strips. That leaves 4 spare for the 3 inputs from the swell pedal pot (don't forget the pedalboard core will take analog for the swell). There are 8 connections on the barrier strip. This is for the 4 grounds and no connection wires from the dins. Of course can't forget the power terminal and fuse holder. I was able to reuse my termianl strips from my old push button board, so I am making use of those parts. Now to wire these terminals to the pedalboard, etc., and put the mounts in for the core and dins.

Note: The contact spring wires ARE NOT attached to the through holes. So when I soldered a few of the circuit board of the pedalboard, from the top side, the spring contact wires pushed through, and came loose, and I had push them back resoldering. I didn't look at the keyboards, since I didn't remove the circuit cards, after soldering to the din cables. So this is something I should check later. If I were to do it again I would tape the contact spring wires in place before I top solder. You also want to point the spring wires slightly to the right or the non notched side of the tabs, so they spring into the notches and stay put. This is good to know too since I will keep my spare contact circuit boards from the let overs from the keyboards. I can make pedalbaord contact circuit boards by just removing the unused spring wires. They use the same 12 contact circuit boards that the keyboards use. But only 5 are used. So as I discovered velocity could be added to the pedalboard too by using spares from the keyboards and removing the unused spring wires. I can also replace any bad spring wires if needed too. The pedalboard contact baord has been reinstalled. Today I will put terminals strips into that area where I decided to put the pedalboard din/core circuit. I will connect the wires from the contact board of the pedalboard to terminals.

The pedal contact board is all ready to reinstall! As you can see I marked the wires so I know where they go when I put the cable back in. I numbered them from 1-25 upscale. That way I'll also wire them to the din in that order too.

I decided to keep the old silver wires (yes they are silver, or something other than copper, and 16 gauge). But I did remove them and sand the carbon residue off of them and put them back in. I also had to sand the carbon off of the spring contact wires too. This I had to do carefully not to bend them. Now I have good continuity. I also cut the ground wires off of the front buss so I can do one board at a time. I'll put new ground wires in after all circuit boards are back. The yellow and black will be connected together and grounded to the metal of the contact board. 4 more to go..

OK, that part worked out well.. I just bypassed the resistors. I used the old wires, just cut them close to the connections(to have as much length as possible), stripped just a bit off the ends(all you need is about 1/16"), and reattached them to the other side of the resistors. I used a simular technic for soldering the ends for the keyboards. The pedalboard contact board will be a lot easier than the keyboards, since I am using the existing wiring to run up to the din/core, and I am not adding anything to them. Now to remove the contact circuit boards, clean the contacts with some emery cloth, and insert a new copper wire in. I'll check gauges when I remove the old wires(I have both 18 and 16 gauge, whichever works best). The pedalboard is a piece of cake compaired to the keyboards. So this should go quickly for me.

Hummm.. Interesting! These pedalboard contact circuit boards are the same as the keyboards! It's just that they do not use all of the contacts that the keyboard contact circuit boards do. So, I could swap out with the spares from the keybaords, just cut off the unused contacts. Plus: These tabs have 2 notches! Which means I COULD add another stack to actually have velocity! But that could be an added feature if I think the pedalboard needs it or not.

Well that wasn't too hard. I had to prop my organ up a bit to see what I was dealing with. The contact board also looks like they used acrylic for the tabs. There is only one stack of contact circuit boards, so I can't get velocity from the pedalboard. But who needs it there anyway? The wiring will be simple too, just bypass those resistors, and replace or clean the 16 gauge wire on the contact circuit boards, just put it back and wire up to the din. I'll have to solder a din and core circuit board too, since I only soldered the keyboard ones. I also took a picture of a leslie motor so get an idea as to what I am dealing with there too.

I think I found a new place for the pedalboard core and din circuit now too. I'll just use the spot where the old pedalboard electronics were! That way I can still use the wires that go down to the pedalboard contact board, and just solder it up to the dins there. As you saw there is also a nice(well so so) old dust cover I can reuse too. That way I can use the space in the upper part of the organ, where I was going to install the core and din for the pedalboard, for power strips, etc. BTW I am saving my old electronics(I never know what I may want/need to use). That is why I am noting what gos where before I tear any old electronics out. I may try to find the rythm circuits and wire them up to take signals from the computer, etc. I DO know I want to keep the leslie motor drivers, etc. I just need to trace the wiring out to that. Plus the main power switch of the organ lights up lights to the sheet music holder, etc. Those could be replaced with LEDs though. Plus I'll see what I can do with the old amp too. It may need to replace the caps, etc., and it will take a bit of work to reuse. I will be using my organ guy's electronics knowledge on that, along with looking at the origional schematics of the organ. But it would be cheaper than buying new amps, etc.

OK. I was correct. That is the cable for the pedalboard contacts. It gos up to old electronics for the pedalboard. So I will cut the wires for those electronics, and remove those electronics. I also took a look at the swell pedal and it just has a pot. Good I'll just replace that with a linear 10k, and wire it to the core. I will have to figure out how to pick up the analog of the PIC on the core, and how to code it in midibox. I will also have to add a header strip for that on the core of the pedalboard. I also looked at the amp and the circuitry looks simple, I can see the channels. So it may not be to hard to add premamps to it, etc.

The nice thing about having a camera , is not only to document things, but it allows me to take pictures in tight spaces that I can't get into to see what's what. Before I atempt to remove the pedalboard contact board, I need to look at the cabling to make sure it is loosened from any tie downs, etc. To get an idea I took a picture first. As you can see, that cable that gos into the hole, must be for the pedalboard. But it might also be for a transformer or something for a leslie motor. I did have this organ mostly dissassembled last summer when I moved it, and saw something like a transformer under it. I won't really know until I get behind the organ. I might as well remove the amp while I am at it so I can work on it too outside of the organ. Yes I was doing some work on the organ before I decided to midify it, as you can see by the stripped wires. So now to move the organ away from the window to get behind it to work.

Yes, my organ has a nice full length pedalboard! As you can see it is ony 25 pedals but full length, but.. It looks like there is room for 7 more to make it 32! I'll see what the contact board looks like. Maybe there are 32 sets of contact circuit boards, and this organ had an optional pedalboard! I'll check with my organ guy on that too. The pedalbaord is also is removable which is nice. In case you are wondering about the fish tank: I have a fish that just won't die! He hasn't been fed in over a year, no filtration is running, no lights, the tank has not had water added, etc. I am just wating for him to die so I can clean it out. But he just won't die, and I can't deliberately kill him. My organ also had 2 front legs that I removed that am considering wether to put back or not. They don't seem to help with support. My cat has also been working against me with repair! She is sratching the tops of the legs of my bench! So I have some carpentry work to do too.

OK, new day new year... I just finished installing the metal plates onto the fronts of the contact boards. These plates had old circuit boards attached to them. So they could also be used for another core/din circuit(i.e. second touch). I then installed the old cardboard dust covers to reuse them. As you can see the core/din circuits fit nicely under them! I have to make cutouts in the backs for the inputs and outputs of power and midi, but that can wait until later. I am calling it done with the keyboards now so I can move on to the pedalboard and swell. My next posts will be on the pedalboard and swell! Here's some pictures of the completed keyboard contact boards:

Happy New Year guys! I am playing Auld Lang Syne now on my midified keyboards with Miditzer, for the end of the year. I am back playing again! Too bad you can't hear it. I can't wait to get it working through the leslie. Any requests? :) :sorcerer:

Great! I dremeled out a new tab for the lowest C of the Solo and it works perfectly! Now ALL keys from both keyboards work. I am just about done with the keyboards now, just a couple more things and I'll be investigating the pedalboard next. Here are some good close-up pictures to show you what I had to do. I had to cut off a tab from a longer one, and make the top trianglar notch. Not too hard. I cut the end off with my cuttter disk. Then I used a diamond glass bit to grind out the notch. These tabs are made out of an epoxy type material, like circuit boards, so they take a bit of grinding. But if you are careful it is easy.

Thanks Jim for describing to me the real feel for it on the Wurlitzer. I have never played on a second touch organ, so I don't have any idea as to what it is. But when I saw it on the virtual organ I JUST HAD TO THINK ON HOW TO GET IT TOO. I did read that it used 1/8" of space, and assumed it to be at the end of a keypress. I inadvertingly have velocity(well available, but not implemented), but it would be neat to have second touch too. So it IS 1/8"? Great, at least I got that part right. But if it's a firm keypress I wouldn't like that part. It must be hard to push, or maintain your key presses for second touch eh? Yes, a tactle switch would be the way I would go. It would let you feel that you have second touch, but not require a real heavy keypress to maintain it. Well I can experiment with it now. But how to try it out without destroying anything in the process? That has been the biggest delema with me with this organ. I don't want to drill holes or anything into the organ and make mistakes that I can't fix. Maybe I should get a spare Baldwin keyboard(doesn't need all keys just a few to experiment with) with a contact board to experiment with? I have an excelent resource for parts from my organ guy. He has all kinds of spare parts from all types of organs. I am lucky I found him. But, as I found out: It's a trial and error. At first when I first tried out a few push buttons for my push button idea, it felt OK. So I decided to go ahead with it. But it wasn't until I had it all done and tried to play it that I was unhappy with it. A tactle switch in theary my seem better. But maybe Wurlitzer's route maybe better at the end when you play.

I am thinking... Second touch tactle feel? Springs under keys? Well push buttons have springs, and when I had my push button board installed there was a definate firmness when you hit a push button switch. There is also room directly under the keys for push button switches. So second touch could be done by installing switches directly under the keys! But, I think if I were to do that I would want a different kind of push button switch, so it just gives a click feel at the end of the keypress, and not move much. I would want to go check out an organ with real second touch to get the feel for it first. I most likely would want 1/8" at most of keypress at the end for it, so second touch doesn't get activated until you definately push the keys all of the way down. Right now my copper wire for the end of a keypress makes contact BEFORE hitting bottom of the keypress. I get contact at about 1/8"-1/4" before the key hits bottom. Which is good. If I add the other set of contacts, with a copper wire inserted towards the middle, they should make contact in the middle of the keypress. So that can give me the velocity BEFORE the second touch. Where would I put the core and dins for this? Well there is an unused space on the front of the contact boards where the old organ had circuit boards! My core and dins I mounted can be for velocity(already there just need to wire up 2 more dins), AND second touch with another core and 2 dins on front of the contact board, and switches directly under the keys! But right now, if I want, I CAN easily have velocity, which will be nice. But I will need to see how to take advantage of it in software, etc. If I don't have a real need for it, then why add it? But I at least planned for it just in case..

I am thinking ahead on how I am going to amplify the output of the computer. My organ has 3 speakers, including the leslie. I do still have the origional owner manual! It's must be 40 years old but well perserved. Anyway here is what it says: Amplification system: Fully transistorized, 105 watts of audio power(rms), amplified through three separate channels and is well contained. The pedal channel consists of a 40 watt(rms) amplifier and a 15 inch heavy duty speaker. The flute rotor channel has 40 watts(rms) and a 9x15 inch oval wide range speaker that rotates in a drum. The reed string(and percusion) stationary channel have 25 watts(rms) with a 12 inch extended range speaker. All of these divisions have spearate volume controls for the purpose of setting just the right amount of volume on each division to suit the acoustical environment. OK, so it looks like I have a good amp. But to figure out how to get 3 channels of line input into it. Of course on the computer end I have to figure out how to map the channels too, to output to the correct organ speaker channels. I have a feeling the inputs are directly from the tone electronics and come in parrel with many inputs and high voltage, etc. I will have to group them to the output channels and probably add preamps. Line input voltages, I think, are 1v peak to peak? Plus I would most likely want to add optocouplers on the inputs to isolate that amp from the computer, so it doesn't blow up the computer. What would be the cheapest , but best, route to take. Any ideas? Don't tell me to design my own. I can to a point but would like , if possible, to get kits, or schematics, etc. , of someone that has done something simular to use. I would also like to possibly add more speakers to have better range. Smaller speakers for the highs and larger ones for the lows. There is some space in the speaker area to add some smaller speakers. But I don't think there is enough space for 16, like that lowery had! :) But adding more speakers will also require cross over circuits for them(that part should be easy).

Now I think I know why I found so many tabs broken on the Accompanment. Over the years of playing chords, etc., some keys may have bent. They may have been adjusted by an organ tuner when my Dad owned the organ. He kept good care of it. Plus some 35-40 years ago he bought it used, so it may have had been worked on several time by techs. There may have been broken tabs while I played it and didn't notice them, until this midification and tearing them apart to find that. The broken tabs may have been caused by the hammers going up too far, thus putting too much preasure on the tabs. I found that the Accompanment keyboard didn't have all of the hammers perfect. Some where higher than others. I didn't tocuh the Accompanment when I was adjusting for my push button board (I was working on the Solo first). So the Accompanment was untouched by me. I never had it looked at in the 25 years I have had it. All I can remember was that some stop tab springs needed adjusting when it played. Those I fixed myself. But this is the first time I have played it in over 8 years! I have had it in storage for the last 4 years, and before that it was in a room where I couldn't play it. I almost forgot how to read sheet music. I sat down last night to show my son how to play music from sheet music, and damn if I forgot the notes! But 10 minutes later I had it. So I'll need to pratice again at it, so I can teach my son how to play. But it's like riding a bike. I am not a musician, I just play for enjoyment. I did take a ton of music lessons when I was a kid and attended the conservatory of music. I learnt from some of the best on big 3-4 manual pipe organs, etc. I used to be able to really play good using both feet on the pedal board, etc. I remember my one organ teacher being meticulas on the foot work. I just remember him saying "heel-toe, heel-toe". :) A good organist has to balance themselves and use all fingers, both feet on the pedalboard, and also try to turn sheet music and adjust the swell pedal, change stops, etc.. It's not easy when you are playing some music that uses it all. At one time I wanted to invent a page turner, that by moving your knee, it turned the sheet music pages for you. But I persued another career instead of music. But this is no biggy, the keyboards play fine. To an inexperienced organst you wouldn't notice. But I do, so I want them perfect. This is just a fine adjustment , to get them perfect again, that's all. Right now I am going to dremel out a new tab for the Solo, and wrap up the keyboard part so I can move on to the pedal board and swell. Now to convince the wife to take the tree down so I put the pedal baord back in, and can work down under. I hope I can easily remove the contact board for the pedal board to work on it.

Great! Thanks. I can live with that if I can't do second touch. Then what I can have is velocity! That is good enough for me! I'll just forget second touch, but do velocity! But that will be added after I have everything else done. An optional added feature.. You know what? That lowery organ I was looking at had these touch bars under the keyboards. I'll bet that could act like second touch by resting your palm on them? I didn't go into detail with that guy about that organ, since I wasn't spending any money there. So I didn't sit down to play it or anything, just looked at it, and thought of an airplane cockpit! But I'll bet...

I finally have 2 fully midified and fully functional keyboards! I finished my adjustments and all keys work fine now (except for the lowest C on the Solo, which I will fix tomarrow). Both cores are daisy chained and midimerge enabled in midibox128! The input to the computer comes from the Accompanment. The output of the computer gos to the Solo. When I add the stop core to the chain(it will be first in the chain), the output of the computer will go to it. When I add the pedal board and swell core(last in chain), the input to computer will connect to it. This way the stop core with the Douts will get the inputs from the computer to change stops, etc. Now all I need to do is make that tab for the Solo, make a shorter midi cable (right now I am using a 5 foot one, all I need is about 1 foot, which I will cut from the 5 foot and add a connector to) between the keyboards, and put the dust covers(everything should fit inside of the old dust covers too) on the contact boards, and I am done with the keyboards! Oh, and make a new IDC cable for between the dins of the Solo. I won't work on first and second touch features until I am completely done with the organ. To me it's an optional feature that can be added later, if I want it. But I have it ready for it. The area in back of the organ behind the contact boards, where there were some old organ circuit boards, is the ideal area for me to install the core and dins for the pedal board and swell. Plus there is a hole near it to route the wires down to the pedal board. See by keeping my keyboard midi circuits within the old keyboard contact board areas, I now have this other organ space for the pedal board circuits! Plus all din core ciruits for the keybaords and pedal board will be close to each other to easily have short midi cables to chain them together, etc. That way all of the core circuits and electronics are in the top part of the organ, and are all easily accessable for repair, etc. To the sides of the keyboards in the top parts of the organ can go power strips, computer power supply, etc. The computer motherboard can be mounted up in the top part where the stops are, and will be shielded too. There is space in the speaker area above them amp for the computer, but that area is near the speakers, etc., so I don't want it there. Damn! A few keys on the Accompanment are a still bit stiff! I went through all of the keys and bent the soft metal of the key hammers , to adjust them just right. Guess I'll have to do it again. It doesn't take much to make them too stiff or not make contact(it's a fine bend adjustment). Or put them out of alignment with the tabs. That's why there are organ techs! You may also find this with old organs that keys have been broke, or whatever. This is why I guess they make that metal soft, so it can be adjusted. Not now though, I am exhausted from getting the accompanment done. The keyboard is still playable, just have to tell my son not to pound on the stiff keys for now(they could break the tabs). I don't want to have to replace them anytime soon. I was lucky my organ guy had just enough for me. The Solo was easier to adjust since I could lift up the keyboard and adjust it until it was right. The Accompanment can't be lifted. So I have to note each key that needs to be bent up, down, pull off the contact board, bend the metal, and hope it is right. Then put the contact board back, and repeat until right.

Ahh OK. Thanks. Well at least I should be able to get second touch with the contacts. Just to think out how to add the tactle feel to it. Even if I can't get a tacle feel from it it still could be used for something? I have seen portable keyboards with a second set of contacts, but no tactle. Yes I just finished the Accompanment. All I need to do is some adjustments, merge the keyboards , and wrap up the keyboards! Then it's on to the pedal board and swell...