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Hello again , I was able to get the pickit 2 to load the bootloader into 4 of the 18f4685 it read sucessful programming.A question is the device id should be 0 for all bootloader chips (all 4).Is this correct? I realize that when uploading the 8580 firmware that the jumpers need to be changed in the mb6582 circuit board.I was not sure if the pic bootloader device id needs to be changed . I am confirming that the device id is 0 for all 4 pics for the bootloader device id when using the pickit 2 ,and then later on the device 0,1,2,3 need to be changed when the pc board jumpers are changed inside the mb6582 for uploading the firmware for the 8580 sid 's hex firmware.Also what other file is the midi file for the bootloader? Is this just a different way of burning the bootloader in to the pic with midi?I used a pickit 2 ,so no midi file was needed.Should i have changed the device id i did not see a way to do this with a pickit 2 when burning the boot loader? Thanks for a really nice audio device i really like the mb6582 the inventors are audio, and code amazing people.....----thanks for help with pic questions I am still a begginner but i built and sold a mb a while back....----scottsober 1-16-2016