tonyn

My midification of my 70's Baldwin 210

232 posts in this topic

Well I do have the Main and Solo swell pedals working in Miditzer with the organ's swell pedal!

Which is what I was after.

But I had to change the settings in Miditzer(set the Aux to channel 1) to use channel 1 for the swell.

The pedalboard does work now on channel 14, as I wanted, but the swell is on channel 1.

But I don't know what I did to get it all working right in code!

So a night's sleep will refresh my mind as to what I did.

I want the swell on channel 16, and the pedalboard on channel 14.

I am working with the asm files and MPLAB, compiling to hex, converting to syx, and uploading that to the core.

But at least I know it all works!

Edited by tonyn

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Well I got what I wanted.

Kind of in a strange way

(I'll delve more into the understanding of the asm and C coding of midibox later).

I downloaded that guys example files.

Then I opened the main_swell.asm file.

If you search in his files for "psz" you will see where he inserted code for the swell pedal.

In his swell channel part, here is what I edited:

;; send first MIDI byte

movlw 0xbf ; 0xbf == controller (CC) channel 16

The first byte determines the channel.

The channels is 0xbchannel

Channels 1-16(0-f in hex).

I wanted channel 16, so I changed it to 0xbf.

It was 0xb0 for channel 1.

I then loaded his project file into MPLAB, and had it build a hex file, setting it as an absolute build.

Then I used his scripts to convert to syx.

Uploaded that to the core.

Then to change the pedalboard note channel and enabling midimerge from my midibox128.ini configuration I made into a syx file,

I uploaded that syx file second to the core.

The core took both syx files , the first setting the swell and channel,

the second setting the pedal notes, channel, and enabling midimerge.

It seems that if there is something in the first upload of a syx file to the core,

that isn't in the second syx, the second won't overwrite that part.

But it did overwrite the din codes, and enabled midimerge.

So you can take advantage of both(the ini for din/dout, and midimerge, etc., and MPLAB for other, like Ain, etc., that isn't in the ini)

This works well in Miditzer, but Jorgan needs a bit of tweeking to get it to work it seems.

I can't seem to find the channel settings for the swell pedals in the disposition I have right now.

But at least I know it all works and I know how to change the channels.

That is all I need for now.

I now have the Solo, Pedalboard, and Swell ALL fully working, midified, merged, and playable in Miditzer!

All I have to do now is fix that din, put the Accompanment back into service, and wrap up it up for the keyboards, pedalboard, and swell!

Edited by tonyn

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Note: Wiring to the terminal and barrier strips.

The ribbon cable wire is 26 gauge, and stranded.

The terminal strips I have those wires wired to, only accept up to 22 gauge.

So, to make the 26 gauge wire wider, and to help it from tearing the strands when you tighten it in the terminals:

I first stripped the ends back to 1/2 inch, and turned back the ends to have 1/4" doubled up ends.

I then tinned the ends with solder.

To do the runs I cut back each wire from the cable,

starting with the wire that has the longest reach to a terminal, 1/2"

1/2" is about the distance between terminal connections so it makes a nice run.

I made sure that the longest wire length had some play, which is inportant too.

All of the black screw terminals(I, or Radio Shack, where I got them from, call these barrier strips)

wires were also stripped 1/2", and have doubled and tinned ends,

and inserted to the left of the screws before turning.

(this way the screw twists the wire tightly around the screw when you tighten it clockwise).

I tried to allow enough play in the wires so nothing was real tight.

This is inportant, so over time they won't break or pull out!

I also used strain reliefs where I could, to help too.

It's these little things that are inportant too when doing a project,

if you want it to last and be professional.

Edited by tonyn

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Well I have been troubleshooting that bad Din circuit board.

I ohmed out the traces, and even swapped out the ICs.

Actually all 4 jumpers, pin#4 of them cause shorting to to pins of All ICs.

The reason I didn't initially find it with the 4th jumper was when testing it with the pedalboard,

which only had 25 contacts, pin #4 of J6 was for note 29.

But testing it in the accompanment keyboard showed that was bad too.

Pins# 4 of these jumpers use the first pin of the resistor networks and is close to the caps.

I looked for shorts there too but couldn't find any.

My only thought now is that I may have the resistor networks reversed, which shouldn't matter.

I did put these in the reverse of the first dins which were all good.

If that isn't it it maybe the caps.

Those are also in reverse, but this shouldn't have mattered either.

I hate the idea of desoldering these components, since I don't want to destroy them or the board in the process.

But there is not much on these boards, other than the board itself, that can be bad.

My soldering I closely inspected, and it seems all good.

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Well, the din is fixed(resistor network oriantations make a difference).

But now I have a cut Midi cable from the computer!

I have no idea on how that happened!

It could be from the metal on the back of the Solo contact board(it's a bit sharp).

So I'll have to make sure that when the Solo contact board is turned up and down it has clearances to not to cut into anything.

I am making a couple of Midi cables today anyway to daisy chain the keyboards and pedalboard.

So I might as well repair that now too.

I will also leave the dust covers off until I am pretty much done with the organ.

Then I'll make the cutouts for the power, Midi cables, and aux output from the keyboards

(I have 3 spare inputs per keyboard midi circuits from the dins, which is 6 total, enough to use for my pistons).

The dust covers just attach with clips in front and screws in back.

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Edited by tonyn

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The rest of this weekend I'll be planning out the Midi cabling ,

power cabling, power strip placement, UPS battery and circuit placement,

and computer power supply placement.

The battery and computer power supply I hope to put on each side of the keyboards in back,

since, hopefully, there is enough height for those there.

The power strip in back behind the keyboards.

I'll run most of my cabling on the left side of the organ,

since I have my cores on that side, it makes sense to run the cabling on that side now too.

Plus the hole that is near the pedalboard circuitry comes up in the back middle area,

where I want to put the powerstrip.

But there is a hole on the left side with plenty of room to run cables down to the amplifier and pedalboard circuitry areas.

After that is all done I'll be figuring out how to make the pistons into momentary push buttons, and wiring them up.

Pretty soon I'll be re-designing my stop area console and planning out the Midi circuitry.

This will be designed on the computer

(I'll design a virtual console to play with in Jorgan, etc.,

and if I like it, it will go physical),

so I can see what it will look like before I physically commit.

I'll also be looking at the old organ Tremolo(leslie motor), circuits and control,

and amplification circuits to see how to get them working too

These parts will take me a lot longer,

since next week I have to start looking at my schooling and won't have much time for the organ.

But at least it will be completely playable with the virtual organ software, using the touch screen for the stops,

and 10w computer speakers for sound output!

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Edited by tonyn

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I just called my organ guy to tell him what I will be looking into next:

The leslie motor control circuitry

The amplification circuits

He will be emailing me some schematics on those.

I also told him about the transformer I saw near the swell pedal:

That's for the organ lights.

For the leslie motor control I will use the Douts(need to order them), to control relays.

I may need 2 sets of relays, 1 set of low powered ones for the Douts, and the second to control the motor circuits.

I'll need 2 Tremolo circuits, since there are 2 speeds, 2 motors.

Instead of trying to reuse the old amplifier, I may opt for new powered speakers instead.

My 10w computer speakers, that are temporarily placed inside of the organ,

do have good volume , enough right now for my living room that I have them turned down!

So I could look for 3x 10w-50w powered speakers instead,

and just tear out the speakers, and wire in the organ speakers instead.

This would save me a lot of headaches for me too with trying to deal with the old amp,

blowing up my computer, and having to design peamps for it, etc..

Plus, maybe I could put 16 10w powered speakers(160w total) in like that lowery had this way,

each one with a filter for a certain frequency range for different instruments! :)

What looked like a tranformer under the organ is also a leslie motor(he told me there are 2).

I asked him about piston covers and stop covers.

Since I already have 122 push button switches, I don't need full stops nor pistons.

I just need nice translusient stop covers that hinge, that I can put LEDs behind with my push buttons.

He said he may have some from lowery organs.

The full push button type stop tabs from the newer organs he said had that cheap resistive contacts behind them!

I dont' want that, but if I can use the covers, that will work.

The pistons I can either use the covers I have and make a panel mount for my push buttons, or see what he has.

Or maybe I can modify my pistons with springs, etc., to be momentary, etc.

Like I said these parts of the midification process will take me some time to design and do.

But I wanted to call him to let him know ahead what I will be needing next.

Edited by tonyn

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Well I am finished, for now, and won't be back at it for maybe a week,

or when I have time.

Tomarrow I need to concentrate on going back to school.

I found these rubber things

(left over from the front of the Solo contact board to protect wires to the

old circuits on the front of the Solo contact board), that I put on the back metal of the Solo contact board

to help with NOT cutting the midi and power cable wires from the Accompanment, when it is tilted up.

I repaired the midi cable from the computer, made 2 custom midi cables out of one 5 foot one,

to daily chain the cores, and tied the cables up a bit.

I'll plan out the power strip, etc., later.

I do have the organ closed up and playable,

and the computer speakers are sitting inside the organ, down by the organ speaker area for now.

The keyboard can be moved to behind the sheet music holder when I want to play, for now.

But I am still thinking out how to have a shelf for it and the mouse

(although the screen is a touch screen, a mouse still comes in handy) swing in and out of the way, etc.

I also have my organ sitting far enough from the window so I can still work on it from behind, etc.

My keyboards, pedalboard, and swell pedal are all midified, daisy chained, and work well in Miditzer!

But I am still trying to figure out how to configure the swell channel in the Jorgan Dispositions.

Since the cores pass signals down the chain,

the computer input is to the Solo core

(for now, eventually the first core that takes the input from the computer will be the stops core),

and output is from the pedalboard core.

I can also reconfigure my cores from one input from the computer without changing or removing any cabling.

I just upload to the ID of the core I want to change!

The cores all have a unigue ID from 0(stops), to 3(pedalboard).

So, now that I know how to change the channel of the swell, I may map it to another channel that works better in my Jorgan dispositions, etc.

I do have 4 more Din kits and 1 more core kit for my stops to handle up to 128 stops!

But I will need 4 Dout kits and maybe an Ain and Aout for the stops, etc.

Those I will order next month.

In the meantime I can do some breadboarding, etc., to see what I will need.

Here's a bunch of pictures for you:

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Edited by tonyn

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Now my Swell Pedal also works in Jorgan!

I just had to set the Change Message data 2 to: "set 127 | get value" in my disposition, and set the threshold to "0.05".

I am using a fluidsynth version of Bruce Miles Wurlitzer 260

(I have the Great and Solo mapped to channel 1 for my Solo keyboard).

I also reconfigured midibox to send the swell out on channel 13

(easy to do as I said with my core chain, I just upload to the ID of the core I want to change).

In midibox channel 13 for the swell is "0xbc"

To set channels for the swell pedals in Jorgan you just change the status from 176 to 176 + channel#

For channel 13 it's "188".

Data 1 = "7"

At least that is what I have set for now.

BTW:

My first class for this semester actually starts January 26.

So I have a couple of weeks yet to play with the organ.

Right now I am working on the virtual organ software, photoshop, etc., and dispositions I want for stops, etc.

Since I like all of the bells and Whisles of the Wurlitzer 260,

I most likely will use one of the Wurlitzer 260 dispositions for the sound fonts, etc., and just design it into my organ console's stops, as a start.

Once I get more of a hang of Jorgan, I can then add neat features from modern organ examples, and think out how to to it physically too.

I like the full customization of Jorgan!

Then, to switch over to true sounds, I will play with the free version of Hauptwerk, etc.!

Eventually I want to start doing some virtual organ coding myself,

and make a nice custom GUI shell for the virtual organ programs, maybe in

Java(cross platform, so this is what I want to consentrate on) or Visual Basic, etc.

I haven't worked with Java other than Java script for websites.

But this semester I'll be taking Java at the college to learn more about it, and to apply what I learn to this!

I will then change my organ computer's operating system over to Linux(this I have worked with before,

so I know linux).

Right now it's crappy Vista(I hate Vista, but it came preinstalled on the organ computer).

I may change over my motherboard for my organ computer next month too!

I want at least a dual core(I thought I got one but it isn't),

with enough expansion slots for at least 3-4 sound cards,

and a side buss to make it 1 unit high so it will fit nicely in the top of the organ.

My cards right now maybe too high.

Or get a good integrated motherboard with good sound,

and figure out how to send out to the different channels of the sound.

I am using fluidsynth right now with the integrated sound,

so I could do something like that, and have no cards on the motherboard!

Here's a screen shot of my current Jorgan Wurlitzer 260 console.

This is pretty much untouched and is the default.

I am playing this now with my organ, and to me it actually has better sound than Miditzer 216!

I'll also make various consoles of modern organs to map to my physical stops, etc., using photoshop, etc.

When I am happy with a console layout for Jorgan, I'll then make it physical.

Until my stops are physical to the virtual organ programs,

I can use the touch screen for various virtual consoles!

Even after that, I can always call up virtual organ consoles for more organs!

Love the virtual stuff!

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Edited by tonyn

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As I stated this next part of my midification process

will mostly take place with computer design and planning.

Then I'll breadboard some of it for testing before commiting

it to drilling and cutting into the stop area of my organ.

The leslie motor is easy, just need to keep the old organ's motor control circuits, and use relays to activate them.

For amplification I have a couple of routes:

Use the old amp and try to make sure the inputs don't blow up my computer.

I may just design new amps, but use the nice big transformer from the old amp.

But gut out the rest of the old amp.

Or just use 3 amplified speakers and gut them out of the speakers, etc.,

and use them to power the leslie and other organ speakers.

So it's not hard.

What I need to do is decide what all I want for stops and layout.

I'll take measurements and see what type of material, etc., I want to use for the stops.

Acrylic is my choice of favorites.

Or I could even use the old stop covers and somehow make them momentary by installing push buttons behind them, etc.,

then LEDS above them, etc.

I'll use photoshop to design the look of it to look at, and virtually test in Jorgan.

But I'll need a simple, free, CAD program for the physical layout of the stop board.

I am not taking this to a machine shop,

so all I need is an easy and simple CAD program, that is accurate for measurements,

that can print out to multiple pieces of paper, to use for templates.

Plus it would be nice for it to output to jpg, so I can use that for Jorgan Skins, etc.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Edited by tonyn

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No suggestions on a good free CAD program?

Oh, well, guess I am on my own to find one that suits me.

Note:

Yes, I could use the old stops and pistons, etc.

But first off:

When a core scans the Dins for the stops, and they are non momentary,

I am afraid that the Midi signals will overwhem the virtual organ programs.

That's like the swell pedal:

I had to turn the threshold up in Jorgan else even touching the swell pedal caused it to almost lock up Jorgan.

Second:

The pistons may not be able to cancel out stops that are physically active, unless they are compltely controlled by the computer.

So the stops and pistons need to be momentary with Dins.

But how would you know a stop is active?

Douts and LEDS.

Thus unfortunetely I can't use my type of stops, since it seems too hard to try to make them spring back etc.

Organs with tab type stops maybe better with putting momentary push buttons behind them.

What I may do is see what type of stop boards my organ guy has.

If he has a complete one from a theater type organ that can easily be changed to momentary, I may take measurements and see if I can change out stop boards.

LEDS can be installed above the stops to indicate an active stop(easily done).

The pistons should be easy.

I can just cut the old piston tops off, attach them to push buttons, and make a panel for the push buttons somehow, and wahla.

Breadboarding time too.

And guess what?

I do have a nice push button board with 61 push buttons with which to test out a stop type board with! :)

At least I can hook up a couple of dins and a core to it and program program changes for stops into midibox

and try it out, instead of constructing a whole new one.

I can then try out LED and relay circuits, Douts, etc.

Gives me a testing board to work with before committing something to the organ!

So my push botton board experience is not wasted.

Edited by tonyn

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I used qcad (www.qcad.org) a while ago. Genuine 2D CAD program. Had to dust off my old skills I learned at the drawing board many years ago

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Tony, on the stop tab question, I don't think the non-momentary aspect is a big deal. Looking at the documentation on the midio128.ini file, it looks like control change signals contemplate on/off--just like keys. I know that those signals have been used to control stop tabs in Miditzer, and I think so in jOrgan too, but I haven't dealved into it.

From the midio128.ini intro:

# Supported MIDI events

# (Note On) Example: 90 30 7F 90 30 00 @OnOff (ON: send 90 30 7F, OFF: send 90 30 00)

# (Poly Aftertouch) Example: A0 30 7F A0 30 00 @OnOff (ON: send A0 30 7F, OFF: send A0 30 00)

# (Controller) Example: B0 07 7F B0 07 00 @OnOff (ON: send B0 07 7F, OFF: send B0 07 00)

# (Program Change) Example: C0 01 00 FF 00 00 @OnOff (ON: send C0 01, OFF: send nothing!)

# (Channel Aftertouch) Example: D0 40 00 FF 00 00 @OnOff (ON: send D0 40, OFF: send nothing!)

# (Pitch Bender) Example: E0 30 30 E0 60 60 @OnOff (ON: send E0 30 30, OFF: send E0 60 60)

#

# Also valid:

# (Note On/Off) Example: 90 30 7F 80 30 00 @OnOff (ON: send 90 30 7F, OFF: send 80 30 00)

# (Controller Fun) Example: B0 10 40 B0 11 40 @OnOff (ON: send B0 10 40, OFF: send B0 11 40)

#

# - If byte0 is FF, the event will not be sent

#

# Supported button behaviours (see MIDIbox tutorial):

# @OnOff

# @OnOnly

# @Toggle

#

################################################################################

So the example codes given later, like "65 = B0 10 7F B0 10 00 @OnOff" can be used to control stops.

I agree that using pistons would mess up the stop tabs after they are cancelled, but on the Miditzer forum the simple work around is to just flip the tabs up and back down again (or rig up some sort of reset switch that tricks the computer into thinking the tabs have been set up and down).

It seems a lot easier using the existing tabs. That's the route I'm following, but I've only now gotten to the point to try out the idea.

If you go for momentary switches for the stops, you probably are going to have to figure out how to tell the computer that the stop is remaining on. I understand that pistons use "program change" signals, but stops don't. The other alternative is some sort of latching switch or feedback loop to keep the LEDs on and the stop active--but that is already there with the toggling tab switches.

As I said, I'm a bit behind you in progress on my Baldwin, but from my reading it looks like you have a few basic choices with physical stops: use existing tabs and control change messages, or make your own stops that send control change messages.

Pistons can be used with the knowledge that when they are used, the physical stop settings are not necessarily valid unless reset.

Otherwise, people just use a touch screen monitor and pistons.

Edited by RVBottomly

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Tony, I should have added something I just remembered: some people have configured jOrgan to use program change MIDI messages to control stops. That is different from Miditzer. If you go the program change route, then the momentary switch approach is probably the one to take.

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Tony, I should have added something I just remembered: some people have configured jOrgan to use program change MIDI messages to control stops. That is different from Miditzer. If you go the program change route, then the momentary switch approach is probably the one to take.

Yes, decisions decisions.

Yes I have thought this out and with the old stop tabs you may not easily cancel them out with the cancel piston from the virtual organ software, etc., unless everythign is computer controlled with momentary buttons and LEDS for indicators.

Yes, the program change is easily done with the midibox128.ini, no need for asm code.

The dout part(MIDI-IN in midibox128.ini) is also easily configurable in midibox128.ini for Douts.

The Douts are where you can latch the outputs from the virtual programs by adding LEDs and relays.

If you use the old stop tabs, with dins only, you will also need to build separate relay circuits that are isolated from the Dins to activate your leslie motors.

Get double pole double throw relays, and one set of contacts go to a din, the other to motor drivers.

You could of course build a Doutx1 circuit for just a couple of relay circuits.

But since I pln to activate LEDs for ALL stop tabs, I will just go with Doutx4 boards from avitshowtech(but breadboard a doutx1 circuit first to test it out).

I plan to use the Douts to both drive LEDs and close relays for that part, and latch them on/off.

But the piston cancel, etc., maybe trickier to program in Jorgan, etc., if you don't use momenatary for the stops.

Also, don't forget, if your organ has these like mine:

Reverb pot, etc., that if you want use of those you need to use an anolog input to the stop core and that is done in asm.

I may also want to have a physical LED meter for things, and that would require Aouts too.

I'll be breadboarding these things first, to see how things work best.

I'll post my progress and let you know what I find.

Edited by tonyn

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OK.

After some more thinking maybe I CAN use my old stops.

But I do want some indicators to indicate that the virtual organ programs know when a stop is active, etc.

The piston cancelling, setting, etc., is the tricky part.

If a stop tab is non momentary, how can a piston in the program cancel it, etc.?

Do you have to reflip the stop tab to reset it, etc.?

Plus with a non momenatary will the PIC keep on outputing Midi mesages and possibly swamping the virtual organ programs with constant messages,

or does it look for a change and just output with a change?

If it's momentary then you just push it to reactivate it, and only one message is generated, which would be nicer.

Flipping back and forth while playing could also be confusing, etc.

Still a need for LED indicators to know.

Either way I can't see NOT using LEDs and Douts to drive them,

to at least have some physical indicator to let you know that the virtual organ

has activated or deactivated a stop tab, etc.

The stop tabs are a hard one to figure out what to do with.

The pistons, to me, SHOULD BE MOMENTARY, and should be easy to do.

All you need to do, at least, is cut the covers off, and figure a way to have them push momentary push buttons.

I'll do this part next in my midification, since it should be easy to do.

This has been my delema.

I need to breadboard some of this out to see how it works,

and what I want, or can live with, etc., which is next...

Edited by tonyn

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Actually I maybe able to make my stop tabs momentary!

All I need to do is find a way to put springs behind them so they don't go all of the way down,

but make contact with the old spring contacts, but spring back, thus making them momentary!

Then for LED indicators I'll just drill small holes above them(or into them, I'll think that out)

and insert LEDs.

Too bad they are not translucent.

But maybe I can do that too with dremel cutting off the tops and cementing translucent acrylic covers on them!

This would do what I want and be neat too.

It will take work, but maybe the best way to do it.

Update: Better idea, and easier for lighting up the whole tops of the stop tabs!

Drill a hole for an LED into them, but:

Just cement clear thin acrylic, or clear plastic, onto the tops.

The acrylic, or plastic, will defuse the light and make it light up the tops!

I'll need a couple of extra stop tabs with which to experiement with, time to call my organ guy again..

This way I don't have to do any major redesign, and can use my old stop tabs.

Fortunetely too, the instrument writing on the stop tabs are not etched in.

So if I decide to change their names, I scrub off the old labels and put my own on them.

I just need to find a way to do this!

Edited by tonyn

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That was easier than I thought!

I already have an old stop tab momentary!

ALL I did was move it's existing spring behind, and now it's momenatary!

That spring locked the stop tab down, now it pushes it back up!

If your organ has a simular type thing, it also could easily be reversed to make the stop tab spring back,

thus making it a momentary push button!

Got to love these organs with by not doing much, you can have what you want for midification!

So that should work for the top stop tabs!

Now, hopefully it won't take much to make the lower stop tabs momentary too!

The lower stop tabs are a bit different.

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Edited by tonyn

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I don't know, but Baldwin must have thought out that part with easily being able to make them momentary too!

All I had to do for the lower stop tabs to make them momentary was screw out the screws

that the springs are attached to to have them spring back.

The neat thing is, if you wanted, by screwing the screws the other way you have momentary Off(they spring the other way).

So maybe you can , with a little reversing of springs, like me, make your stop tabs momentary too!

Now I DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THE STOP TABS OTHER THAN MAKING THEM MOMENTARY, AND THEN USING THEIR OLD CONTACTS!

For the LED indicators, I will require thinking out where to mount them, that's all.

So, actually I can plan out my Din/Dout and Core placements now and at least wire up dins and program midibox for the correct program changes, and wahla!

I'll also have to think out where I will mount a relay circuit board for controlling the leslie motors too.

Plus while I am at it, since I plan on the computer motherboard going in the top area,

where the midi circuits can also go,

I can see where it would fit too.

I need to think this out before drilling holes into the metal of the top area,

where there presently is old circuitry that will be removed for new midi circuits, etc.

The only thing then is to get Douts, LEDs, relays and maybe an Aout(for physical LED meters), etc.

I know, they are dusty. I'll have to clean them up some.

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Edited by tonyn

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If you go for momentary switches for the stops, you probably are going to have to figure out how to tell the computer that the stop is remaining on. I understand that pistons use "program change" signals, but stops don't. The other alternative is some sort of latching switch or feedback loop to keep the LEDs on and the stop active--but that is already there with the toggling tab switches.

In midibox when you read a din momentary button press, it can also toggle the Douts , thus having the latch.

The Douts basically, as I see them,

are just a bunch of digital toggle switches(flip flops) and LED/Relay drivers,

controlled either by internal midi messages from the core and Dins,

or externally by midi messages output from the computer.

This is set in midibox with the MIDI-IN, etc., not the virtual organ programs.

At least that was what was posted by someone in the beginning of my long thread somewhere.

So it should work well, I hope.

Jorgan should also see a press, and toggle it.

No need to have midibox constantly send a stop tab press to Jorgan.

Once a stop is momentarily pressed on the touch screen too, Jorgan reads it, toggles it,

sends a midi message out to the core so the core can toggle a Dout/LED.

If a piston cancells otu a stop, it is cancelled in Jorgan, and a midi message is sent out to the core to toggle or clear the Dout/LED.

I don't like the idea of flipping back and forth the stop tabs either.

But to make them momentary is easy.

Maybe your stop tabs can be done the same way.

Then you can also use your stop tabs and make them momentary too!

Some stop tabs you may keep non momentary(like for the leslie, etc.).

The pistons may also be able to be easily modified too to make them momentary!

By making the stop tabs momentary, and having Douts for the toggle latch part(and LED/Relay drivers), the virtual organ program can toggle them,

plus the dins will manually toggle them too by momentarily pressing the stop tabs physically, etc.

Complete control from computer to manual(you can manually active/deactivate, or have the computer do it with the touch screen, etc.)!

This I know can all be done.

It's just a matter of programming it to work right.

Plus I think it would be neat to push a virtual stop on the touch screen, and see it light up an LED on the organ showing that stop is activated from the computer!

Plus , to me, this is the right way to do it.

BTW:

In Jorgan (I played with this), you can set the pistons to not toggle certain stop tabs.

You may not want this for the leslie, so it can just be controlled manually with non momentary stop tabs, etc.

I may do this so those circuits are manual, but still close relays that have 2 sets of contacts,(one for dins and the other for the leslie motors).

But still have douts to light up LEDs, etc.

This way neither the pistons nor the computer have control of the leslie, but can read it to know it's active or not.

In Jorgan there would be no computer control of the leslie, but it can read the state though.

Options options...

Now that I know I can easily make the stop tabs momentary or keep them non momentary:

I'll breadboard some circuits(I'll breadboard a Doutx1 for testing too) and solder up some more Dins and a core to test it out with,

plus test out midibox and Jorgan configurations to see how it works.

Edited by tonyn

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Well I temporarily am closing up the organ for now while I solder up some Dins, etc.

I'll modify the stop tabs later, once I figure out what I want to do with them.

But, before I closed up the organ, I just wanted to do a partial trace of the leslie motor control wires.

I want to keep that old leslie circuit and wiring intact, all I will insert is relay circuits from the dins, etc.

It looks like that wiring and circuitry

(I didn't remove any old circuits that were part of the leslie motor control)

is pretty much intact and easy to trace out, etc.

Good.

I will keep that cabling circuits and those wires intact(white green and grey wires).

But I can strip out the rest of the organ circuits now.

Except for the light control, which I may switch to LED(I'll see).

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Edited by tonyn

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I have another delema!

As far as the stop tabs and the leslie motor control , I have that figured out.

But there are 3 other features of my organ I don't have much idea on:

1. Panoramic Tone

This has a unit in the speaker area for it and a stop tab for it.

I have done some googling and some people call it Baldwin's reverb.

Can I mimic this in Jorgan or software?

I couldn't find any dispositions or referance to it for Jorgan.

If I can't mimic it in software, I may have to preserve that circuit.

I think it is just a matter of running the computer sounds through it before the amp, right?

2. Vibrato and a pot to adjust it's depth.

What's Vibrato, and can this also be mimiced in software?

Do I keep it's circuits?

3. Solo and Percusion Re-It?

Plus there isa pot to adjust the Re-it speed.

Also same thing:

Can this be mimiced in software, or do I keep the circuits?

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OK.

Reading as everyone suggests here I have done!

I have researched Jorgan dispositions, Douts drivers, and midibox code.

For my panoramic tone, reverb, etc., I have found some Jorgan dispositions that I maybe able to mimic in software.

But I'll leave those circuits intact, just in case...

Yes, Dins can be set to toggle douts and latch them!

It's something like @toggle instead of @notepress, or soemthing in midibox128.syx

(I have it written down somewhere).

As far as relay circuits for the leslie, etc., avishowtechs Doutx4 board can have ULN2803s inserted in place of the 220 ohm resistor networks(used to current limit LEDs) to drive relays.

I only need one ULN2803 on one dout board to drive up to 8 relays, more than needed.

So one dout board will have 3 x 220 resistor networks for LEDS, and 1 x ULN2803, to drive 3 x 8 = 24 LEDs and 8 relays.

I have a total of 78 stops, so I only need 3 x Douts of 32 outputs = 96 outputs.

8 will drive relays, so 96 - 8 = 88, more than enough!

When a stop is pressed, the core it sends a toggle program change type signal.

This routes to the douts to toggle in midibox, and sends the midi message out to the virtual organ program, etc.

8 LEDs will match the 8 relays outs for those indicators, one 74HC595 will drive the LEDS, and another the relays.

I haven't looked up the specs on the 74HC595's yet.

Do they latch like flip flops and stay latched, or not?

If not:

They don't need to be latched for the LEDs, since the scan will be so fast you won't see them not lit.

They are onyl indicators anyway.

But I'll need to latch to the relays to stay on or off, with flip flops.

But I am sure the 74HC595's already are.

Else I may have to see about substituting one 74HC595 out for a flip flop IC for the relays.

Simple(in theary).

I may also get an Ain and Aout for possibly LED meters.

But I don't want to overload the stop core.I do have 3 pots on the stop baord, but the core inself can take up to 4, so I am OK.

So now I know what I need to order from avishowtech and, in the menatime, to breadboard out with components, etc.

I'll breadboard a Doutx2 with 2 x 74HC595, 2 100nf caps, 8 220 ohm resistors, 8 Leds, and a ULN2803 for relays, and solder up a core and Dinx4 board.

I am also using a hammond organ disposition for reverb, a dispositon that is simular to my Baldwin with vibrato and percusion, etc.

I'll mix and match from ones that are there, and then add my own customization to it.

Once I have a Baldwin 210 disposition, I'll then know how to map out other organs to my stops, etc., for more organs.

So breadboarding and virtual organ programming I will be doing next...

Edited by tonyn

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Good news!

I decided to upgrade my Jorgan(my version was 3.7) to the latest stable release(3.8.2) to see if the midi recorder was up to Mitidzer abilities.

Well, almost.

You can now load and save midi files by name.

But not from the skin yet(you need to close full screen and use the Jorgan recorder pane).

My son likes that feature of Miditzer.

Anyway:

While finding newer dispositions that someone else made(why make it from scratch when you can use someone elses as a start)

take advantage of the new Jorgan 3.8.2 features(instruments are ranked, now, etc.),

I found 2 new Baldwin dispositions

The 48H is a 60's model Baldwin, but it does have the stop arangements I do, a Solo and Accompanment keyboard, one expresion pedal,

but just not as many instruments.

It has percusion, and Panoramic Tone and Vibrato too!

Plus I have a hamond disposition that has reverb!

So all I need to do is inport sound fonts for more instruments, add the reverb from the hammond, etc.

At least this will save me a bit of headache instead of starting from scratch to mimic my Baldwin console in Jorgan.

I may stil decide to use the real Panoramic Tone, Reverb, etc., circuits for that, since I will have the relay circuits to control them.

That's like using the real leslie for the Tremino.

Nothing like the real thing.

That's if they can take the output from the sound of the computer easily for those other circuits.

But at least I can go virtual with them.

Edited by tonyn

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Did I tell you that I am a poor college student right now?

I do have some money saved from my business that went bankrupt this last summer,

but I am basically living on grants and student loans right now.

So,

unfurtunetely I am pretty much tapped out for money until my student loan alotment comes in for this semester,

which won't be until the end of next month.

Right now I can't place any more orders from avishowtech even.

But I do have enough parts to do some breadboarding.

Plus I need to also work on the virtual organ configurations too,

since I haven't delved much into that other than try to figure out how others have done it.

But I kind of reserved that for last anyway, since with taking Java programming this semester,

I can apply that to it.

So over the next month you may not see many pictures of construction, other than some minor breadboarding.

I do have dins and a core.

Plus LEDs are cheap and I can do some simple breadboarding and programming to interface it to Jorgan.

I may also delve into Myorgan too(haven't really looked much into that program).

But I will do coding, and share that with you.

My ideas are all here and they should work.

Plus I DO have a virtual organ that fully plays!

It's just using the touch screen(I got that so cheap I should have got 2 and split them, oh well...),

and the sound is just with 10w computer speakers(but surprizingly they are loud enough for my small living room right now).

RVBottomly:

You may now get farther along than me, unless you are following me.

Your Baldwin has the nice theater tabs and 32 note pedalboard(wish I had that one, but they seem interchangable, so maybe I'll see if I can put one into my organ too).

If you look at your tabs, they may be able to be easily made momentary too.

I think that having them momentary makes the midification more professional, since you will not have to flip the tabs back to reset them.

But you will want LED indicators, and Douts, and maybe relays for your leslie, etc.

I looked into trying to figure out how to light up the tops of the stop tabs without cutting them off.

There are SMT type LEDs that may work, but how to make a thin acrylic lens that will fit on top of the stop tabs and defuse the light.

Those SMT type LEDs need to draw less than 20ma too.

If all fails the simple thing is just drilling holes into the stop tab board above the tabs and insert normal yellow/red/green LEDs there.

On the Jorgan, or virtual side, I will design a skin that has LEDs that light up in Jorgan above the tabs, etc,

and have those changes send out the midi code to the Douts to toggle them too.

This way I can see it virtually before I commit to it physically.

My default virtual organ skins and consoles will mimic my Baldwin physical console.

This is where some graphic work comes into play.

To start, I do have enough example dispositions that I can grab some from those,

and then make my own custom ones too in photoshop.

Anyone have any ideas on how to light up the tops of the stop tabs?

The stop tabs are opague, so LEDs won't light them up from behind.

I want to light the tops with some type of thin acrylic or other type of flexible translucent or clear plastic maybe, that optically is a light guide or lens for the LED,

that transparrent intrument labels can be put on, like decals(I can print them up), and lighted somewhat like backlighting LCDs.

I want this lens with the SMT type LEDs to be about 1/32" thick, and 3/4" x about 2", so it covers the whole top and lights it up.

I need to do it with LEDs that don't draw more than 20ma too.Of course Ideas are one thing, makign them another.

Most likely the best way is for ME to experiement with this idea, and see if it works.

Edited by tonyn

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