Problems with MB-6582 Testtone upload *FIXED*

[JaseM]

I've been trying for the last few days to upload the Testtone program for the MB-SID. I've trieed with two different computers (Mac and PC) and two different MIDI interfaces (NI Audio Kontrol 1 and Midiman Uno) and no configuration of the two have been able to upload the .hex file.

I've double checked the hardware, everything powers up and I have J11 bridged on all cores.

In MIOS Studio, I've routed the hardware as described in the Wiki and still no activity. All that shows up is the following:

Starting upload of main.hex

Sending block #1 00003000-000030FF

No activity according to the hardware and the Hex upload screen doesn't change after 5 minutes.

Is there anything else I should be checking?

[pingosimon]

hahaha....thanks for helping me! I was up 'till 4 AM last night troubleshooting my MIDI connections, because I didn't read that little paragraph about bridging J11.

Are you sure all COREs should be bridged at the same time?

J11 at the bottom of the board is used to switch which PIC's serial output is connected to the MIDI Out. You use this during uploading of MIOS and the MB-SID V2 firmware to each PIC. Place a jumper vertically across two pins to switch between the PICs 1,2,3,4 (1 is the master, on the right). Leave the jumper in position 1 when you've finished. All PICs receive the same MIDI In, which is OK during uploads and the MB-SID V2 firmware also requires them all connected to MIDI In. I've labeled this 1,2,3,4 and the Cores/PICs are identified 1,2,3,4 but the device IDs you burn into the PIC are 0,1,2,3.

It's not entirely clear wether you have to upload things to each PIC, by switching the jumper and uploading everything four times, or if whatever is sent to PIC 0000 is sent to all the slaves. (EDIT: obviously, not everything is uploaded simultaneously. My CORE1 has testtone uploaded, and the others show "Ready.")

In MIOS, check your MIDIMonitor IN window. When you power up the MB-6582, does one line of text show up?

Edited December 18, 2009 by pingosimon

[Wilba]

J11 is used to set which ONE of the FOUR PICs is connected to the MIDI Out.

I thought this was pretty explicit when I wrote:

Place a jumper vertically across two pins to switch between the PICs 1,2,3,4

So using four jumpers in J11 is errr... *cough* completely wrong. :whistle:

[JaseM]

All right, One jumper on J11 for Pic 1, Device ID 0. Still nothing.

I've tried opening the MIDI Monitor In window and I get nothing. No messages at all.

Again, I've checked the power and everything checks out.

Is there anything else I'm missing? Is there another way of uploading the Hex files (like AVR Tiny)?

[Wilba]

Can you confirm you don't get MIDI Out from any of the PICs in any of the IC sockets?

Take out all PICs, put PIC #0 into each socket and set J11 jumper to suit, power on, watch MIDI In window.

You should get an upload request.

Repeat with the other three PICs.

You're trying to find out if the problem is the PIC, the socket it is in, or the MIDI Out connections (i.e. something wrong between J11 and the MIDI Out socket).

No upload requests means it's probably either a) PICs don't have bootloader firmware burned or b) something wrong between J11 and MIDI Out... you seem to have ruled out c) PICs have good power.

BTW what PICs are you using? Ones from SmashTV with a sticker? Or fresh ones from somewhere else which may not have the bootloader burned yet?

[JaseM]

I'm using PICs from Smash, "BSL 1.2B and MIOS 1.9F" according to the sticker.

I'll try taking out the PICS and testing the sockets individually and report back.

[JaseM]

OK, I've swapped the PICs into every slot and tried both MIDI interfaces. Still nothing from the MIDI in window.

Have I damaged the board, the PIC or both?

[Wilba]

Very unlikely you have damaged anything.

Even while the PICs had their Tx pins connected (with four shunts in J11), that shouldn't have damaged the PICs.

If you had another MIDIbox Core module, you could test your PICs and MIDI In/Out with that, but I assume you don't.

So... start with the PC. Connect MIDI Out to MIDI In of your MIDI interface, run MIOS Studio, setup the routing and test that notes you send with the keyboard appear in the MIDI In window. Don't just assume it works, TEST IT! :)

Here's the MIDI Troubleshooting page:

http://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.html

While doing these tests, work just with the master PIC (ALWAYS leave out the other PICs)

i.e. put shunt in J11 position 1, do all tests with the far right IC socket, either with the PIC in or out, depending on the test.

The MIDI In/Out circuits/parts are near the sockets. There are two traces going down the right side of the PCB to J11, the Tx track (which splits at J11 to each PIC) and the Rx track (which splits and connects ALL PIC Rx pins).

You should be able to follow the MIDI Troubleshooting guide with MB-6582, the parts are labelled the same.

I suppose most of the time the problem is related to bad solder joints or a short between adjacent pads. I suggest checking the solder joints for the MIDI sockets, the resistors near it, and J11.

[JaseM]

OK, I'm adding to this post because I'm trying to upload the .hex file to my sammichSID and the same thing that happened with my MB-6582 is happening to the sammichSID. No messages coming to the MIDI in monitor. I've tried several MIDI interfaces and I'm getting no data. The MIDI in light is coming on with the NI Audio Kontrol, but nothing else.

The power checks out, the LCD reads "Ready".

Is there any other way of uploading the hex to the core?

[Wilba]

The fact that you're having the same problem on both the MB-6582 and sammichSID suggests something not right with your setup. Perhaps. It could also be a hardware fault on both. You can't rule out setup fault until you've tested that your MIOS Studio MIDI In monitor is actually showing messages received from your MIDI interface.

For sammichSID, check you have shunts correctly installed in JMI and JMO headers.

Are you sure the MIDI cables are connected correctly and the cables are working?

Can you plug in some other MIDI controller and receive messages in MIOS Studio MIDI In monitor?

Have you correctly routed the MIDI in MIOS Studio?

Do you get an upload request when you power on?

Have you done a loopback test? (i.e. send notes with MIOS Studio keyboard, same messages in MIDI In/Out windows)

With MIDI cable between PC MIDI Out and PC MIDI In?

With PIC removed and shorting Tx/Rx pins? (on sammichSID, you can remove shunts in JMI and JMO and short middle pin of JMI to middle pin of JMO).

So instead of doing these things like I suggested earlier, you're asking if there's a way of bypassing your broken setup... there is, you can convert a hex to a SysEx dump, but this is not advised, there is no feedback so you won't know if the upload was uncorrupted.

[JaseM]

Well, first thing I can tell you is that while I'm seeing the messages on the LCD telling me the MIOS version and the "Ready" message, I get no data at all in the MIDI In monitor when I turn on the unit.

I'll try to test the MIDI when I get home from work tommorrow.

[JaseM]

OK, I connect everything up on my Mac, using an Audio Kontrol 1. Used two different MIDI cables to connect the MIDI In to MIDI Out.

No signal. Nothing going out or in.

I've bought the full version of Mandolane and I'm still getting nothing.

Any ideas?

[Wilba]

Can you plug in some other MIDI controller and receive messages in MIOS Studio MIDI In monitor?

Have you done a loopback test? (i.e. send notes with MIOS Studio keyboard, same messages in MIDI In/Out windows)

With MIDI cable between PC MIDI Out and PC MIDI In?

Until you validate that your PC's MIDI In is working, there's no point searching for a hardware fault.

[JaseM]

OK, tested MIDI input using GorF sequencer.

First played GorF into Reason to see if the Midi interfaces worked at all. Both worked.

Then I tried various configurations to see if I could get MIDI input to register in MIOS studio. Nothing would work.

[Wilba]

OK so there's some issue with MIOS Studio on your PC.

What is your configuration? i.e. O/S, MIDI Interface, etc.

[JaseM]

Mac OS 10.6.2 on a Black Macbook (2.16 Core 2 Duo w/ 2 GB RAM). I've been testing with a Midisport Uno and NI Audio Kontrol 1 (I've been testing both interfaces via USB, using both available ports on the Macbook, one at a time).

Like I said before, I've used these interfaces with Reason and haven't had a problem getting MIDI input. I've also been able to dump SysEx data using SysEx Librarian onto my Mac.

[Wilba]

Try http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/ to see if you get the upload request.

If so, then it's the "Java-based MIOS Studio + crappy Mac Java MIDI library" issue. I'm not sure exactly what you need to do to fix this... it's been discussed before on the forum, but I don't know exactly what fixes it. It might be a Java version upgrade or installing a MIDI library.

It might be best to start a new thread about this issue so people with Macs can share and find solutions.

TK is working on a MIOS Studio that doesn't use Java, specifically to solve all these "Java MIDI on Mac" issues. A quicker solution might be to try doing your uploads using a borrowed PC.

[jbartee]

The latest version of Mandolane solved my java related midi problems on 10.6.2

It requires a license, but you can use it for 30 days in demo mode, more than enough time to see if it solves your issue.

http://www.mandolane.co.uk/

[Wilba]

He said he already bought Mandolane. Maybe upgrading Java will help. What version Java do you have installed, jbartee?

[JaseM]

Posted 18 December 2009 - 19:06

I've been trying for the last few days to upload the Testtone program for the MB-SID. I've trieed with two different computers (Mac and PC) and two different MIDI interfaces (NI Audio Kontrol 1 and Midiman Uno) and no configuration of the two have been able to upload the .hex file.

The PC is was trying to upload hex on (Acer Aspire One netbook) also was unable to recieve the upload request. I also tried it again for the sammichSID and got the same results as on the Mac (no upload request)

The latest version of Mandolane solved my java related midi problems on 10.6.2

It requires a license, but you can use it for 30 days in demo mode, more than enough time to see if it solves your issue.

http://www.mandolane.co.uk/

I'll double check, but I downloaded Mandolane recently (within the last 45 days or so).

I'll try the MIDI Monitor test when I get home from work. I'll also double check what version of Java I have installed on my Mac.

Would it help if I tested Sysex recieving through other hardware for a benchmark/proof of the MIDI in working?

Edited February 8, 2010 by JaseM

[jbartee]

He said he already bought Mandolane. Maybe upgrading Java will help. What version Java do you have installed, jbartee?

Posting right before I go to bed = didn't thoroughly read thread before commenting.

Anyway, I'm running Java 1.6.0_17

JaseM, I wouldn't rule out some bizarre incompatibility with you midi interfaces. I tried four (!) different interfaces before I was finally up and running. I ended up using both a firewire and a usb midi interface, using the midi out on one and the midi in on the other. SysEx just kind of sucks. It's super picky.

[JaseM]

I ended up using both a firewire and a usb midi interface, using the midi out on one and the midi in on the other. SysEx just kind of sucks. It's super picky.

Two interfaces simultaneously, eh? After I figure out my Java version and test with MIDI monitor, I might have to try that.

[jbartee]

Two interfaces simultaneously, eh? After I figure out my Java version and test with MIDI monitor, I might have to try that.

Yeah, it just worked out that one had trouble receiving and the other had trouble sending.

[JaseM]

Sorry about the delay. I tested both interfaces for MIDI input with the GorF and both were successfully transmitting MIDI data into the Mac.

I then plugged in the sammichSID and got the following data once the unit turned on.

With Audio Kontrol 1

21:18:01.182 From In SysEx Otari 8 bytes

With Midisport Uno

21:23:15.541 From Port 1 SysEx Otari 8 bytes

Is this the data that the core should be sending?

As for my Java version, here's the data:

java version "1.6.0_17"

Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_17-b04-248-10M3025)

Java HotSpot 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.3-b01-101, mixed mode)

As for Mandolane, I couldn't find a way to determine the version code. The package I downloaded was called "MandolaneInstallV2_96.mpkg"

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I noticed that on MIDI Monitor, that it has a function to use it as a way to send data. Could I use that layer to send the ready signal to MIOS and filter the output through MIDI Monitor back to the sammichSID core?

[Wilba]

8 bytes is correct, it should be "FF 00 00 7E 40 00 01 7F"

Isn't there a way to see the actual bytes with the MIDI Monitor program?

Maybe some SysEx receive dump function, or raw MIDI In data window?

You can also try MIDI-OX with Windows, that will also validate the SysEx data is correct.

I think it's safe to say that your sammichSID is sending the upload request, and assuming the sammichSID MIDI In is also working, you only need to sort out the Mac/Java/MIOS Studio issues, or maybe work out why it isn't working on the PC, maybe that's easier to fix.

I noticed that on MIDI Monitor, that it has a function to use it as a way to send data. Could I use that layer to send the ready signal to MIOS and filter the output through MIDI Monitor back to the Sammich SID core?

I'm not sure what you mean... the problem lies with MIOS Studio being unable to send and receive MIDI data through your Java/MIDI library/MIDI Interface... you need MIOS Studio to send the firmware in SysEx dumps to the PIC, and have the PIC send back acknowledgement messages with checksums, so you know it uploaded correctly.