kroutshev Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Hi Guys ! i've just finished MB6582, PSU Option B, i have tested base pcb before without psu and after with it ! All voltage tests were correct ! After have building everything i plug power on it ! First time no led, only light in lcd but without any letter displayed ??? i turn off it and retry and same case, i turn potentiometer and light of lcd changed but nothing else. I power off it one more time and now when i power on leds are brightning during one second and nothing, my lcd has no light now !! i have tested any short between ribbon of pcb and CS boards and nothing ! Do you have an idea ? Thanks per advance ! K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fussylizard Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Do you get MIDI from the first core? I would pull out all chips (SIDs, control surface ICs, etc.) except for the first core and check the MIDI I/O using MIOS Studio. If you have a standalone, known-working core PCB you can test the LCD there to ensure everything it is wired correctly, etc. Did you use headers to connect the base PCB to the CS PCB? If so, I would focus on the base board first, then when everything looks good there add in the CS PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Ok thanks, i will try that now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I'm not very sure if i have correctly mounted lcb ribbon into connector, perhap i have made a mistake !! Please could you tell me if that's the right way in the photo Thanks !-] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozr Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I don't think there's any way to tell from the picture. It depends on what order your LCD's pin sockets are in and which way you soldered the wires (which are hidden in the pic). Anyway, once you do get the LCD sorted, I always write a big letter 'C' on the part of the cable that is closest to the CORE. And I use White-Out ink correction fluid to make a letter 'T' on the Top side of the IDC connector (top for me is the edge of the board where pins 1 & 28 are). Sometimes one letter is easier to see than the other. That way I don't have to think about it much ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Ok snoozr perhaps with this picture it will be more easy to check ? Anyway thanks for the advice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 That LCD cable looks way too short, but I guess it works. I like to have mine long, and "rounded", going up and around the CS PCB. You can see it in the photos. A longer cable will also allow you to open it up completely and still have the LCD connected, which is good for troubleshooting. I suggest removing the LCD from the CS PCB and testing it that way. Also ensure there are no shorts between the LCD's pins (where you soldered the cable) and the CS PCB. This CAN HAPPEN and cause buttons to work, maybe even making the backlight stop working. I insulate with sticky tape, but a piece of thin card or electrical tape will also work. Perhaps you should now try taking out the shift register chips on the bottom of the base PCB, thus disconnecting the two PCBs almost completely... and get to a known good starting point, such as, MIOS installed and the LCD working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Ok snoozr perhaps with this picture it will be more easy to check ? Not really, we need to know what LCD you're using first. Whats the name of it, and can you link us to the datasheet? You will then need to look at the Pinout, and check it with the wiring with J15 of core 1: Here i have Flipped/inverted the Base PCB PDF, (the original is here), so that you can compare it directly with the pinout of the Core module from smash: So Pin 1 is "D7", and pin 16 is "E" Edited January 19, 2010 by Smithy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hi Guys ! ok thanks for the informations, i check that tonight but perhaps that i have inverted pins ??? About lcd i have bought it to Wilba, i havn't the datasheet and don't know the brand ... i will answer you after checking ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Ok great Smithy, my lcd is working now ! the problem was i had inverted ribbon with connector ! I'm afraid that my previous lcd is definitvly dead ... Ok after have upload Mios in the 4 Pic and formating banksitck, i have a new problem. All ic's are inside now and when i boot i have this message : SID 2 not available MBNet no response What's the problem ? Thanks for the good advise :-) Edited January 20, 2010 by kroutshev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 You need to upload MIDIbox SID application to each Core... the PICs cannot communicate with each other (aka. "MBNet") until they all have the MB-SID app. Use J11 to control which single PIC is connected to MIDI Out. Change device ID in MIOS Studio upload window to match the SID ID (0,1,2,3) which differs from the numbers on J11 (1,2,3,4). If you did this already and it still has problems, perhaps you forgot R80 :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Hi wilba, Before seen that message about MBNet problem i have uploaded 0.rc34 to each pic through masterCore0 socket and after replaced them on there own socket. After i have formating 24LC512. When i use J11 i can't reach CoreX, i must mount Pic in MasterCore0 socket ... it's not normal i guess ! I have checked R80 but i have soldered it since the beginning. The problem is not here ! Ok i will check parts and pcb around that section !! I will let you know where is the problem ... I will try 0.35 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Ok, i have uploaded .35rc in each pic and i have used J11 ! It's ok i have checked i have this release on each pic but still have the same message and CS leds are blinking in chaos way ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozr Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 It wasn't clear if you tried rewiring your LCD but it might be worth a shot. I inverted the second column of pins and the LCD was "dead". When I fixed it, it was fine. I thought it was dead but it was the pot at P2_CORE1. Make sure this is cranked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 About Lcd i have replaced the old one by a new one ! i will try to fix it after ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Try one PIC at a time in each "Core", and connect J11 to match... make sure a PIC can boot in each "Core" and sends upload request... perhaps it is better to check you can UPLOAD to a PIC in every Core, so you know: a) PIC is receiving MIDI In b) PIC can be connected to MIDI Out c) Crystal osc, power supply, etc. is good for that Core You should fix the other problem first... get things working properly with ONE PIC in the master Core, i.e. fix the LED/LCD problem, make sure control surface is fully working etc. When that is all fixed, then you can put in one more PIC into the 2nd Core (with PIC IC = 0x01) and just try to fix that MBNet problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Ok, after have read post about similar problem i have removed U16 to U20 (74HC165) and now i havn't message. I mount U16 i have cloning slave stage and after boot i have normal menu. Encoders seems to work but values changed like random mode sometimes. After i mount U17 it's ok, U18 and U19 same thing but when i mount U20 i have the message "SID2 not available , No MBNet Response" Perhaps i can replace theses IC's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 About Core i have tested each pic and they are working well ! Upload and midi funtionnality are ok for the fourth ! I have used J11 to select them when i have uploaded .35rc and check version with lcd plugged on J15_CoreX and that's good ! I have tested with one PIC id 0 and i have always No MBNet message. If i remove U20 i havn't it ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Another question WIlba : when you have sent me lcd you have written that i must use a resistor with it ! But i have deleted the message. Please could give me the value and when i must solder it ? Thanks. K. Edited January 21, 2010 by kroutshev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I've just looking for similar problem in this forum and i found this post I removed them all and my error did disappear. I replaced them one by one to see where the problem began. I started with the 165's and all was well until I placed in the 5th 165 into U20. I thought I may have a short or bald solder point there. I reflowed all the points and came back with the same problem. To make sure the shift register wasn't bad, I removed it and put the one from U19 into U20 and I had no errors. I thought I may have found a bad IC, but to be thorough, I put that suspect IC into U19, removed the IC I had in U20, and no errors again. The only time I get this error is when all 5 165 shift registers are in place. The problem goes away when I remove any one of the 165's, it doesn't matter which one. Removing one or all of the 595's does not change anything. And that's exactly the problem i have with mine, except the fact that's SID2 for me and not SID4. If i understand right it was contact between lcd and pcb but mine is not attached to Pcb ! i will try to search a short in CS board ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Still looking for a short ... About "No MBNet response" message, it's strange because when U20 removed, at each boot there's "Cloning slave" operation ! and it seems to be ok after reboot ! that's the proof the Can Bus for MBNet is ok, isn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Found a shot between Pin 3 and 4 of U18 ! Edited January 21, 2010 by kroutshev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 The "Cloning slave" operation happens when you hold down "Menu" button when you power on. So a short might be causing this to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroutshev Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Yes Wilba i have seen that in the manual and i have checked "menu" button and it's ok ! But the cloning operation happens only when U20 is not fitted. When cloning operation (slave 3) is finished i have the normal menu like my sammich. But after when i put '165 into his U20 socket i have the famous message "No MBNet ..." !! But i'm sure that i have a short somewhere !! If cloning operation succeed is it a proof that pic's communicate between them ? And about contact between pins 3 and 4 of U18 is it normal ? Thanks for your answer ! Edited January 22, 2010 by kroutshev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 U16,U17,U18,U19 are connected to the rotary encoders. U20 is connected to the switch matrix. So, it's possible that pins 3,4,5,6,11,12,13,14 (which connect to the D0-D7 pads/ribbon cable/CS PCB) for U16-U19 might be connected, because of the position of the rotary encoders will be "shorting" some of those pins to ground. That's normal. This makes it very hard to test for shorts for those pins, but it doesn't really matter because you will discover problems later when encoders don't work correctly. For U16-U19, shorts between those pins should have no effect on the switch matrix. However, there should not be shorts between pins 3,4,5,6,11,12,13,14 of U20. Putting the 74HC165 in U20 is effectively turning on the switch matrix so that any short on the CS PCB is now being read by the PIC. In this case, it's possible that one of the SID 1,2,3,4 buttons are being triggered. So you'll need to check the tracks from U20 for shorts... also tracks/pads near the SID 1,2,3,4 buttons on the CS PCB. Normally shorts occur there by the LCD being mounted... but if this is not the problem, then it's most likely a soldering issue... some blob of solder shorting between pins of the switches etc. and it's definitely a short, not a broken track or a bad solder joint that is not connecting a pin to the track.... missing connections would not create an "always pressed switch" effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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