MB6582- saving after programming with external CC

[sonofprent]

So I was trying out piping in an external MIDI controller this morning to some success. However whatever changes I made to the patch I was working on were unable to be saved- ie when I reloaded the patch none of the programming was stored. Am I missing something or is this not possible? 

[jrp]

i found this in the documention somewhere: CC will not alter the edit buffer or something like that. I think it will work if you are in edit mode? Can´t find where i read this right now.

 

Or you have to use sysex ot Nrpn.

 

I am interested in the same as i wish to add a lot of analog pots to my sid (for envelopes and filter, maybe also some lfos). I guess this can be done with MB_NG, i think MB_64e can only send cc (?).

[jrp]

from the cc implemention chart (sid manual):

 

The CC implementation covers the most important parameters at 7bit resolution, so that they can be easily accessed from a 
DAW or a common MIDI controller.  CC changes are non-destructive and won't affect the edit buffer. This isn't a bug, but a feature! 
Means: your edits on the Control Surface won't be overwritten by incoming CCs, but as an effect they won't be displayed on the LCD, 
and you won't be able to store changes made via CC as a new patch. 

 

 

 

I still have a lot of old pics here, so if anyone has a hint how to make it send NRPN on pot movement that would be great! In 8bit programming section there is an example for sending cc on pot movement (first example in the list).  It is propably necessary to make it look what sid is currently active (simply by looking at the dout pins driving the sid 1-4 LEDs), so that data can be sent to each connected core. Not sure how this has to be implemented. Propably hard if different ensambles with different midi channel mapping will be used...

In this case it´s propably best to have the controll pic handle midi mapping and use just a single ensamble on the master sid.

What i am thinking of is a box that will controll around 10 to 16 parameters from analog pots in full resolution. I was nevery happy with the feel of encoders for tweaking the synth. I am a studio user, so i wouldn´t mind the parameter jumps. And there is still the option to use encoders alongside.

Edited May 14, 2014 by jrp

[sonofprent]

Be interested to know if there is any way around that 'feature'. Perhaps I'll have to look into the shift hack- I'm not a fan of the two button filter sweep.

[sonofprent]

Oh and thanks for the info, most helpful :)

[jrp]

So do i understand that you want to remote controll your sid because you are not happy with the encoder speed?

 

It´s the same for me. I have to turn encoders like 20 times to sweep through the whole filter range.

 

Unfortunately MB_SID does not provide any different speedmodes like the MB64e.

A few threads down in this forum TK explained how to change the Shift button so that it´s function on encoder speed is reversed. If you try this, please tell us how it went. For me changing that line of code unfortunately did nothing (strange).

 

I am considering diving into the MB_NG world to provide controlls for a couple of features. Analog pots sending NRPN would be my choice.

Freq, Reso, 2* ADSR and depth, EXT_CV 7, EXT_CV 8, maybe even direct controll for LFO 1-3 are the controlls i am thinking about.

combined with some encoders from the original cs this would be killer for fast tweaking of sounds!

But i could not try out how this behaves yet. EG, if a NRPN message will automatically be routed to the selected Sid (1-4, L, R, LR) no matter what is set in the ensamble.

I kind of fear that building such a "programmer" would require to read out the ensamble channel settings from the sid, check what sid is active on the cs by looking at the pins driving the sid leds and then decide what midi channel the data has to be sent on. That shure would be possible, but rather complex for a programming noob like me.

Edited May 16, 2014 by jrp

[sonofprent]

The encoder speed is one of the reasons yes- Ill see if I can find the code change and will have a crack at it at some point. Really though I could do with finding a hack for that non destructive CC thing- I cant for the life of me understand why that would be useful! 

[jrp]

I have been working on some minor code changes (mostly regarding new buttons and encoders) and can tell that it´s not easy. Assembler code is easy to mess up i guess... But i am no programmer, so maybe for you this is more straight forward.

Anyway, if there are alternative solutions that´s fine with me. And NRPN offers full reolution for all parameters so it´s the best choice anyhow.

 

I see a good idea behind the cc handling for several situations:

 

If you use a modwheel, do you want it to change your patch?

Or if you save after playing a soft note with low velocity controlling volume, do you want that low volume being saved with your patch?

Or you have a joystick for live tweaking, that is also good to have independent of your edit buffer.

 

I might start with some experiments using a MB_NG or MB64e. I recently found out TK has implemented a way to send NRPN with meta events...

But it´s a long way till i get to this, currently i am tweaking my analog voltage controlled SID channel and that is still a lot of stuff to fix and callibrate.

[sonofprent]

I can see the logic in those situations, though I think it would have been better implemented if say velocity, pitch bend and mod wheel weren't saved and everything else was- I can't see the bonus in being able to control everything but not save it. That said it isn't the end of the world.

 

I've still not tried the encoder thing- realistically wont get round to it for a while.