Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I have a midio 128 controlling 15 relays, when I am only controlling 2 or three of them everything is fine, but when I am controlling more, it seems to be dropping notes, my interface is just a midi cable hooked to a gameport, my question is would this problem get better or even go away with a real midi interface, like I said above, it only drops notes when more than 2 or three are being controlled simultaneously, any suggestions or recommendations? thank you for your time. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I don't know if I would say the gameport is the problem yet, but who knows ;DI would probably unhook the dout from your relays, and pop in some leds to test and see if the midi is really coming all the way to the leds. Then you could probably determine whether its a gameport/processing issue, or something involving your relays.This was my first test when I hooked up relays, I also had to do it several times to make shure if my box was having problems, or if my relay system wasn't functioning properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Since my relays are hidden, I have leds on the dout circuit so I can tell if my dout is working, there solid state relays, I have noticed now that the note dosent show up on my lcd screen, couldnt tell before, to many changes, but when just using one note sent in rapid precession, it does drop some notes, I have a long midi cable also, not sure where I got it but its like 12 foot.I cant buy a midi interface where I live so I hate to order one and it not fix my problem. thanks for you help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 what is the theoretical maximum of simultaneous midi notes that can be processed by the core? Just curious how robust the 18f is, I just cant figure out why i'm dropping so many notes, I have ordered a midiman 2x2 usb interface to see if my problem is in the sound card connection, but would like to know what I should expect from the midio128, thanks everyone, oh, I have some pictures of the first animatronic, how do I post them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 You probably could post them through portal.midibox.org.I cant wait to see them :)I don't know the maximum notes, sorry. I will look around though ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 what program are you using for midi ;DI was just wondering if there was some way to buffer your midi out. Sonar has some items in the menu for buffering, and there are a couple tricks with settings in a file that you can make. Maybe there are some software settings you can change ;)Might want to check with the companyWell hope you get your problem solved, maybe the midiman will help.Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 oh, I have some pictures of the first animatronic, how do I post them?Very cool! As a former bear(Showbiz Pizza), mouse(Chuck E Cheese), and dog(Celebration Station) Engineer I'm anxious to see what you are up to......;DYou can post them yourself on the portal's photo gallery, and link to them here if you like, or just send them to me and I'll take care of it.Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hey Smash!Remember that little animatronic guy in showbiz.......the one that was in the tree stump on the front of the stage....When I was little, I used to have nightmares about him ;DMy dad used to take me up to the front and he'd always pop up and scare the sh*t out of me....Pretty scary stuff, however out of the funny memories...I just wanted to add that I find it interesting that you worked on animatronics for these companies... ;)I am "very" interested in animatronic projects, and can't wait to see your pictures paul..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 I need help, no really, this is very serious,I am droping about every 3 or 4th note, its not that consistent, but close. For a test I am using middle C sending a note on every 1/2 second and a note off every 1/2 second, while watching the lcd, about every third or forth change it skips a few note changes and it dosent display and the led on the dout doesn't light up.I am using the midisport uno by m-auido (usb) and I am using anvil studios but also have about 2 or three more programs I use, even with a keyboard hooked stright to the core and playing middle C, it stil drops some notes, Can anyone tell me where to start looking for the problem? Could someone please tell me how robust the core is? I would like to know if this behavior is common or if I have a bad core. This very important to me to get this to work, I can think of so many applications for the midio128, but without the accuracy I am not sure what to do. How about you smash, any Ideas? should I order a new core? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 I need help, no really, this is very serious,I am droping about every 3 or 4th note, its not that consistent, but close. Whoop I did not intend to hijack the topic, sorry about that....ok first off have you tested without the long cable? It's a shot in the dark but I have seen long cable runs cause dropped notes and the rig will "logjam" much easier, even if it halfway works for slow stuff/low traffic...Can anyone tell me where to start looking for the problem? Could someone please tell me how robust the core is? I would like to know if this behavior is common or if I have a bad core. Quote from the midio page: The software captures all 128 inputs within a period of 1 mS. If the status of an input pin has been changed, the program searches for the predefined MIDI event in a big table and sends it out:This is really really fast, so you must be losing it somewhere on the way in to the PIC, unless there is an issue with something stalling the access of the lookup table/pin map. (I'm not even sure if its possible to stall MIOS this way, I'm not that far into it yet)should I order a new core? No. This could be something as simple as a power supply or transformer that is too noisy and causes the PIC to misbehave, and there is always the possibility of a defective part (though working COREs have been built from the same batch of parts yours came from). Do you have any different power transformers you can try to run the core with?Does it ever not want to boot the first time you apply power?Anyone know if a glitchy clock, high-ripple power supply, or defective 5v regulator cause these symptoms?Sorry I present more questions than answers, but I just have not heard of these symptoms yet so I'm just guessing at longshots here........I wish I knew!Anyone else have any idea?Don't worry Paul, We'll get the mouse moving again!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Thanks for the reply Smash, I am using a very short cable now (came with the midisport) and I have tried 4 different power supplies, when I use the din board, it never drops a note, no matter how fast I push the button. When I use my keyboard to receive the notes from the computer, it receives all of them,(using the same cable), so I am led to believe the problem lies in the midi in circuit, maybe the rise and fall time of the opto coupler? But if that was the case then would it load the midio syx files so well? I am at a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Ok, here is a little more info on what is going on and forgive me if I repeat some of the info but I think I have a complete picture now.For test purposes I have the core in the middle and my keyboard on the end like so. My computer is the source, my midi out is hooked to midi in on the core, midi out on the core is hooked to my midi in on the synth, when using midi ox I hit the Z button on my computer keyboard, it plays the middle c note on my synth, This never fails no matter how fast I hit the Z key, so my midi in is ok and my midi out is ok, but heres the clincher , when I am hitting the Z button on my computer keyboard at say 1 note per second and I am watching the lcd on the core, when my led fails to light on my dout it also fails to register on the lcd and this happens sometimes on the second note or sometimes on the 5th or 6th note and I haven't been able to get it to register more than 7note changes in a row,and it dosent just dorp 1note, 2 or 3 is common, but the note still plays on my synth, therefor I know that the signal is getting to the core and out of the core, no problem, so what does that leave me with? At first I thought it might be a problem with the dout but no, because it fails to display on the lcd. something stalling the access of the lookup table/pin map? would it help if I loaded the small version of mios? thanks for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Heya Paul!Please bear with me as I learn this with you..... :)While I do know several programming languages (including 6502 and 6809 ASM, but NO C!), I have not had a chance yet to fully wrap my head around MIOS and modding existing apps. I know just enough about MIOS to get myself in trouble! ;)It might not be a bad idea to post your .ini file or a link to it here, just in case anyone else (who might recognize an ".ini" issue) is paying attention.Keeping in mind that I'm a newbie on this also, are you absolutely positive that the velocity of the note you are sending is 7F each time? by looking at this chunk from midio128.ini:[MIDI_OUT] ########################################## # Pin # On Evnt # Off Evnt # Behaviour # ########################################## 1 = 90 30 7F 90 30 00 @OnOff it looks like anything less than full velocity would not trigger the output. Also (without knowing how the lookup table is read) if there are multiple entries for the same pin this might cause it to stall. (again this is pure wild speculation, I have not looked at how the app reads the lookup or what it does with the data)Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 [MIDI_OUT] ########################################## # Pin # On Evnt # Off Evnt # Behaviour # ########################################## 1 = 90 30 7F 90 30 00 @OnOff This is the code for the midi out, i.e. when you trigger a din button, this is what the core sends out/The code for the dout outs is only 4 digits like so.[MIDI_IN] 1 = 90 30 2 = 90 31 3 = 90 32 4 = 90 33 5 = 90 34 6 = 90 35So to trigger a dout pin using a note, all the software rrecognizes is the note on and note off, channel, and note. I am using the stock .ini file that comes with the midio128.I have not made any changes to the file except for the midi merger.thanks smash, for trying to help, I do appreciate it, I am starting to get worried, I was hoping it was something simple but I guess I was wrong, Here is a link to my web space, I just threw them up real quick, when I get the time I will make a proper website.[ftp]http://webpages.charter.net/paulrevelcet/[/ftp] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Heya Paul!Again a total shot in the dark here, but I'm looking at this from midio128.ini:################################################################################ # Forward Input to Output # If Enabled: if an inputs gets an raising or falling edge, the appr. output # pin will be set to the same new logic level. The output pin # can be controlled via MIDI also # If Disabled: an output pin can only controlled via MIDI # Default: disabled ################################################################################ [FORWARD_INPUT_TO_OUTPUT] enabledI didn't enable this, it's from the unedited release file. I have no idea if changing this will make any difference, but it's worth a shot. The code for the dout outs is only 4 digits like so. [MIDI_IN] 1 = 90 30 Understood. I had the ins and outs confused looking at it the first time... :)Hehe your pics bring back some memories, been many years since I have seen one skinned!The Celebration Station show looked really scary skinned, instead of heavy latex for the shape these have a clear molded lexan shell, with all of the drive boards (with LEDs) and solenoids inside.Really terminator looking without the costume on! :)Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Believe it or not, I have 18 of these, two are bears that look like elvis, like 6 chickens, 3or 4 dogs, and lots of weird hooves on wall things that I guess would clap and a big red reel to reel tape player with the amp and stuff. If I can ever get them working, I can envision some of them on a flat bed trailer doing a show about drugs or staying in school, kinda like a concert with the light bar over the top and big speakers on the sides, I also have been playing around with a program called midvid, it allows you to control videos and images on the screen with midi, I can just see it, plasma moniters hanging down under the flatt bed that show content relevant to the topic and have it change via midi signals as the show progresses, but that is a long way off, if I cant get it work I may have to go with something different or abandon the whole idea, but I dont think it will come to that, there are two many smart people that come to this forum, so some body must have an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Smash, I have three things to say to you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Your last suggestion fixed the problem, what can I do to repay you? just name it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 You should look at MAX/MSP, with just MAX you could easily write a custom sequencer that would playback your audio, video, and midi control all from the same app, straight off the hard drive (or wired up to whatever custom deck you want to use.)The time consuming part of all this will be programming your shows, the best way I have seen is a set of animatronic type controls feeding your sequencer with the character following live. hehe sorry just random thoughts....... ;)Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Whoop right on! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;Dsweeet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Cool !Now I'll rest a bit better tonight.I'm thinking the box was giving preference to what it thinks are low inputs from a DIN (like it should!)Either way you should send Thorsten an email pointing to this thread, I'm not sure he reads here in misc. that often. With it listing one thing for default and actually set for another it looks like he did not intend to release it this way.Your show looks to be from a later era of the Chuck E Cheese stuff than I am most experienced with, but other than the solenoids vs. mac valve blocks, and the NC milled parts it does not look like much changed. ;D Congrats!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulrevelcet Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Link sent, and once more thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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