DIY illuminated buton, Datawheel for the MIDIbox Community

[moxi]

Hi , there is some day i'm working on self made buton ,to use with tact switch.

you will find here the link to some photo of the first "babies" ,

the purpose is to provide the cheaper buton with LEDs (or without) for the MIDIboxers: 0.30 Euros with the LEDs and the tact switch!

A datawheel is in process, you will see the first piece this week-end...maybe 0.40 E...

A LEDring will be finished tomorrow : if i found a lot of cheap LEDs with flat top , the maximum cost will be 0.70E...

I've done a tutorial in the french section , i will try to translate it in the next days...

I'm working on knob , but it's more difficult, and the first result aren't as good as expected...

I want to know if there is people interrested by such parts , so , more pieces needed , cheaper will be the cost for all of us...

you will find in this topic the link to the pics , the part you see need to be polished a bit , but they look as great as "real" buton

http://midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=4879.msg30849#msg30849

http://midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=4879.msg30897#msg30897

edit by twin-x. reason corrected some url's

[moxi]

this day: i've done some black buton, and the first test for "smooth" (rubber, caoutchouc ,like "MPC" or Electribe, the picture will explain that better..;)) butons. it's possible to do them black , or othe colour , or white (not a good idea ,they will become dirty to quickly!) , but as the silicone past is white at the begginning ,there is no way to make it "clear" or transparent.

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=n83epyc.jpg

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=lg7dvo3.jpg

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=s58t1bs.jpg

And my first LEDring , it's a prototype .... hard to do ,so i prefer wait to know if some people are interrested before continuing...

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=2k28qdb.jpg

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=vdz0oh9.jpg

http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=2v6u-ph.jpg

tell me what you think about that , and i will do the next test to respond to your ask (for the while ,i've done what i need for my next BOx...so the next mold will be for your buton and knob...)

[Jidis]

Great looking stuff Moxi! I especially like the embedded LEDs. I've been off the fiberglass for a while, trying to help my sister with her house, shop for another studio and about twenty other things, but your pictures are making me miss it :'(

I was wondering how much of an affect the latex stuff would have on the colors. I had only tested it over the raw FG and done some black stuff. I need to get a feel for the smaller parts like you're doing. I've got a pile of cool little "short" faders with plastic shafts, and can't figure out what style of cap might fit them, yet still be appropriate for a slide control. Making them would be an ideal solution.

Perhaps it's not a good job for fiberglass, but I also wish someone might come up with a good means of using the cheap, common "shaftless" tact switches, like you find in most consumer electronics (the small kind with the little black rubber or plastic "nub" in the center). They're cheap as dirt and small enough that you could load a whole panel full of them without hogging much space. I also like the softer touch controls with less travel like that for frequent button taps. I was thinking maybe a bunch of DIY buttons glued to a flexible substrate, like a sheet of rubber, might be able to sit over the switches, but I'd be afraid they'd eventually fall off. Maybe a total "rubber solution" in a fiberglass mold like they do for the membranes in TV remotes. The home component stuff usually has that plastic hinge thing on one side of the button, but I'd be afraid of breaking it with something more brittle like FG.

                                         Please keep the new pictures coming!

-Thanks

George 

[moxi]

hi,

I was thinking maybe a bunch of DIY buttons glued to a flexible substrate, like a sheet of rubber, might be able to sit over the switches

it's what i plan to do for my own gear : i use a product called "RTV silicone" to d the matrix (the mold) , but you can do with this material a "shheet" that will always stay flexible. Then you just have to glue the back of the butons to this "sheet" , and to place the all between your PCB with the tact switch and your panel.

you talk about fiberglass , but for this kind of job ,you don't need the fiber , only the polymer resin, that can be transparent and colored as well as opak...

I've got a pile of cool little "short" faders with plastic shafts, and can't figure out what style of cap might fit them, yet still be appropriate for a slide control. Making them would be an ideal solution

for the whyle ,my test to do encoder knobs (or faders knobs) don't work well, it's hard to mold the whole piece ( to get the hole back the part) , if you want to do just some part, simply mold the top half of the part , and drill the hole with a "mini-tool" .

Maybe a total "rubber solution" in a fiberglass mold like they do for the membranes in TV remotes

Yes , a total "rubber" could be great , but you can't use fiberglas ,cause it's not enough flexible, but you can easyly do that with the RTV silicon , the best way for that is to ask schaeffer for a  panel in plexiglass ,with a large thickness. then you just have to place your plexi panel on a plane surface and to fill all your buton holes with the silicone ,until your panel wath covered by a thin membrane! so, unmold and put this membrane to your metal panel! you can still use the plexi panel to fix your lcd, encoders or pots, ans of course the PCB for the tact switch... 

[moogah]

Hey, this stuff looks great!  Put me in for a couple sets of MPC-style pads, those look perfect!  I'd definatly be interested in the LED-rings too.  They look nice.  Same with the buttons really.  Good work!

[docbrown]

Sorry about reviving this thread.

Moxi,

Can you please re-post those pictures again about your DIY illuminated buttons. :-\

The reason I ask, because of this thread: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=7116.15

Since I am new to this forum, I missed out on some of the good stuff around here. And your project is one of them. I am sure that some new users are interested in it too.

Please... thanks...

[moxi]

yes , i have to take some new pics of the first series of test i've done, i've lost the original pics...

let me some day to do that...

[docbrown]

yes , i have to take some new pics of the first series of test i've done, i've lost the original pics...

let me some day to do that...

Thanks.. ;D

[moxi]

i've just bought the materials to do a new series of caps for buton and knobs, i will post here photos of my work to make a clear tutorial..

for the while, i've just done two pics of the work i've done last year:

first , a plastic button with a led integrated:

http://soundandbreakfast.ifrance.com/divers/bouton%20light.jpg

second: a "mpc" type pad, sorry, it have take the dust since last year ;)

http://soundandbreakfast.ifrance.com/divers/bouton%20mpc%20pad.jpg

third, a rubber caps, work really fine with tact switch...

http://soundandbreakfast.ifrance.com/divers/bouton%20rubber.jpg

sorry for the quality of the pics...

i will do new series during this august month, that will be available on our web site (not for profit, just to keep our investisment back, to do better the next time ;)

[stryd_one]

Very Nice  ;D

[docbrown]

Moxi, those are very sweeeet look'n buttons. :) Especially the MPC style buttons.. very cooool 8)

If you don't mind me asking:

1. What did you use for the mold?

2. Are those buttons made with RTV silicone?

3. Do you know of any conductive RTV silicone? Have you use such a material yet?

thanks..

[moxi]

hi,

i use RTV silicone to make the mold and the rubber pad, and resin for the light buton.

i don't know if conductive RTV exist, but i think you can easily past a fine layer of conductive material on the back side..or to use plastic layers as know from the pc keyboards , there is some manufacturer that can do such things on the web.

for the while ,i haven't find the right type of butons to use with the rubber pads, they must be as large as possible and with the shortest travel...

[Jidis]

i haven't find the right type of butons to use with the rubber pads, they must be as large as possible and with the shortest travel...

Nice buttons!

Moxi,

You may want to look into something like these:

ebay-    http://tinyurl.com/qky42

They're supposed to be an ITT PTS125SM85

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/C&K%20Components/Web%20Data/PTS%20Series.pdf

They're sort of like a giant version of the little cheap tacts in the consumer electronics and the heads are big enough that I can use them comfortably with no caps on them. The square part's 12mm. The button diameter measures around 6.8mm. It's hard to tell from pictures, but they're not rubber. They're more of a slick hard plastic, so they shouldn't amount to too much flex if combined with a large rubber cap. You could also maybe stick a thin plate or disc of plastic or something rigid between them and the cap if you wanted to make sure they didn't miss any "indirect" hits in the corners and edges of the caps, but I don't think it would be a problem.

Best part, they're cheap as dirt. If you can get a few where you are, it might be worth checking them just to see what they do. They should at least work for the regular button part (guessing you're not going momentary switch on the pads?).

Take Care,

George

[moxi]

thanks for the link, i think i will order some of them one time caps are done...maybe a workaround would be to do little pads (eg only 2cm*2cm), not the great for playing, but probably more efficient..

[moogah]

I've got a few hundred of those switches, and they're quite nice.  Pretty much ideal for this kind of button DIY.

[Jidis]

I've got a few hundred of those switches, and they're quite nice.  Pretty much ideal for this kind of button DIY.

Indeed.

They seem like if you "fuzz'd" up the top a little with some sandpaper, you could probably epoxy or silicone just about anything to them. After I posted that, I tried to tilt one of mine sideways to see if it made any difference and it clicks just the same from any angle, so I guess even with a larger rubber cap or whatever, it wouldn't affect the functioning.

@Moxi,

A couple things:

For stuff like the smaller cube-shaped button, have you got any plans on how you would go about suspending it in your panel holes, or are you going to make them all "free floating" in the holes and just affix them each to the buttons underneath?

Also, any ideas on the coloring of the resin you mentioned earlier? I'll have to look at the ingredients later, but I'm guessing there's stuff that won't mix with it (or will keep it from curing).

Thanks!

George

PS- I really like that dull gray color :). I need to track down that RTV stuff. I used a mold making latex, which starts off white, then turns a yellowish clear when it dries. I also found out I wasn't using it right. You're supposed to apply it in really thin coats and dry it in-between with a hair dryer. I tried to make a few of those buttons on a rubber membrane and they came out sort of messy with air bubbles, and they didn't dry well. If I get any good results with that, I'll post. FWIW, the procedure was a cinch. I took a scrap of particle board, and drilled a few 1/4" deep, flat bottomed holes in a row, with a Forstner bit (a fancy spade bit), I then hotmelt glued strips of hardboard (masonite) around it to make a small reservoir, and filled it up with that latex (I think I greased it up with something first). The result was a row of 1/4" tall circular rubber buttons, stuck to a thin sheet of rubber (the thickness of the masonite). Might work with a few tweaks. It's close to what you described with the plexi panel, but a bit more home brewed and sloppy.

Now, how the hell do we get labels on that stuff??;D

Oh, also- Coating fiberglass (or just resin) with that rubber worked really well too. If you coated the tops, or suspended resin buttons in the latex somehow, you should have a clean "glue friendly" surface to stick to a tact switch or something. I dunked a piezo in fiberglass a while back and rubberized it successfully. With enough layers, you'd be back to a rubber feel.

  Pretty horrible looking picture. It actually feels more like a piece of chocolate candy, and would look more appetizing if the latex had some coloring added (that's the plain clear, and the FG is that green "Bondo" body filler). That dark bottom half is actually mouse pad material that I stuck to it while the rubber was wet.

[moxi]

For stuff like the smaller cube-shaped button, have you got any plans on how you would go about suspending it in your panel holes, or are you going to make them all "free floating" in the holes and just affix them each to the buttons underneath?

there is a "dot" on the round cap that stop the travel :

view side:

                    ---

                    l  l

                  -----  <--the dot

hope this explain what i mean

for the cube , i will try to make keep a sheet of silliconne under , so they won't fall. but i don't think i will do other cube button, cause it's hard to drill panel by yourself for such buton. Aother hint would be to a large and fine sheet of sillicone wher it would be possible to past all caps of a set of button (a sheet as large as the panel...

Also, any ideas on the coloring of the resin you mentioned earlier? I'll have to look at the ingredients later, but I'm guessing there's stuff that won't mix with it (or will keep it from curing).

i use standart clear resin, and use "pigments" (better in polder) to add color, but be carefull, some pigment make the resin darker and then don't let the light of leds going thru. for my side , i simply use a product called "durcal" that color the resin in white but let it translucide.the final colour is given by the integrated led

for the sillicone rtv, i've used a black pigment, but here ,be carefull, with some pigment you could have unexpected chimical reaction (for example your silicone could go hard as soon as you put pigment in it)

[moxi]

ok, now the work:

1. the mold:

the RTV silicone and the "catalyseur", and the tools to do the mix (3% of catalysor for 100% of silicone)

first, you have to put just a fine layer of silicone to cover the caps you want to mold, and take care: the bubbles are our ennemies!!! :

as you can see, i'm molding a datawheel too ;)

and the mold finish:

ok, there is nothing to see..

tomorrow, the resin and the first molded caps...

[docbrown]

Oooohh!! I can't wait.... ;D ;D

[MTE]

nice

awaiting results  :D

Peace

MTE

[moxi]

hi,

the mold are done well, except for the datawheel.

i've done a first session, but the result is not what i want: a lot of tiny bubble in the resin, the surface is perfect but not the inside.

secondly, the button are too clear, the light of the led isn't diffused well in the button, so when the led is lighting, it's visible..

but they're perfect for me, i will do better this afternoon...

some pics: the photo make the bubble more visible than they are in reality

and here, how to mount them on the pcb, using the legs of the leds, just put a tact switch below...

if you're interrested, as the mold are done, i can do some for you, i think 2 Euros for ten parts (with leds) is a good price, the mold cost me about 15Euros, add to this the resin (not so costly) and the leds , you see that's a non-profit adventure... i will buy this days a lot of tact switch to be abble to provide a full kit, the final purpose is to have great buton for cheaper than in commercial place...

[stryd_one]

Bitchin!

I'm so impressed Moxi! Every now and then, I see someone DIY something, and think to myself "I had no idea you could even do that... how cool!", and this is one of those times :)

Call me weird but for some reason I don't mind the little bubbles... Kinda adds character :) It probably helps to disperse the light too.... The price is more than reasonable. I know it's not-for-profit, but you should take a little, for your time perhaps... Forgive me if I am out of line in suggesting that.

How many of these things are you willing to make up though? If I were to buy some, it would need to be quite a few... I don't want to be annoying :)

Another thought... could we pay extra and put tricolour LEDs in them?

Please don't think I'm begging though... I can clearly see that you have gone to some degree of trouble, so there's no pressure, I'm just curious  :)

[moxi]

the new bench: look really nice! (i'm happy!!!!): no more bubbles, the buton is opaque when no light, and now the light is well diffused over the whole buton!  ;D ;D ;D

(the photo may let think that the light is just in one point, but it's not the case, it's really hard to take a photo that is as nice as the buton itself ;)

[moxi]

stryd one:

How many of these things are you willing to make up though? If I were to buy some, it would need to be quite a few... I don't want to be annoying

i will do as many part as i can until the mold die... i suppose not before one or two hundred of buttons..and it's often possible to do another mold after that...you won't be annoying asking a lot of them, just keep in mind that it's take to me about 2 hours to make a bench (it's mainly the time to let the resin get dry)...so you won't have them "same day delivery" ;)

Another thought... could we pay extra and put tricolour LEDs in them

of course it's possible...

[stryd_one]

c'est bon!! ;D

That looks pro!

Maybe we should talk about numbers and prices in PM?