Weird SID Problem

kangoo · August 7, 2005

Hi,

Yesterday i completed getting a SID Module together. Well, when I Uploaded the SID App, evrything went wrong. First the LCD Stayed stuck on the Copywrite message, no matter what I did. So I erased The Pic and reinstalled the bootstrap, MIOS and The SID APP, and now all I get Is Random Letters on the LCD. I tried loading diffrent apps and i still get the same results. I checked all the 5v and ground connections, rechecked the LCD cable and evrything is OK . I ran through the complete MIDI Troubleshoot and evrything passed.

So I Checked The SID, i accendently checked with the multimeter the voltage between Pin 24 and pin 6 and I get a Sine wave sound in my speakers !!! I also get the same result when I check Pin 25 and 6 . But when I try sending MIDI Note On messages I get no sound.

Can anyone think of anything else to check ??

Thanks

pwx · August 7, 2005

Hi!

Perhaps you can try it without the SID module connected ???

No other idea at the moment,... sorry

greets,

pwx ::)

kangoo · August 7, 2005

Perhaps you can try it without the SID module connected ???

I tried, that but i get the same result. The stange thing is that is was working fine before, I had upleaded several apps, including the sid app (I didn't have the Module ready at that time), and they all worked fine. When i plug evryhing in i can hear a click in the speakers which indicated that the output is connected correctly. The 7805 on the core gets very hot, and so does the SID chip, but besides that I can't Figure out what else to check.

Earlier

Now

TK. · August 7, 2005

For the SID driver it doesn't matter if a SID module is connected or not, because the communication between the core and SID is unidirectional. So, there must be anything else - maybe a solder blob between two tracks of the core module (around the LCD data lines?)

Don't connect the audio input of your stereo/mixer directly to the SID, this could destroy the chip!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

kangoo · August 7, 2005

I just reprogrammed another PIC (Bootstap, MIOS, APP) , and I get the same results, so I know thats not the problem.

I have checked all the connction they are nice, shiny, with no blobs, I re-checked the electrical connections, all are OK.

Also I noticed that when the core boots up it send a big mess of SYSEX commands, and some program change events. But when I send F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F F7 the core replies, as it should.

So i tried the looback test with out the pic again and it worked OK.

What I don't understand is the problems started even thought nothing had changed in my setup from previous succesfull attempts. And even if the LCD didn't work I don't get why the SID shouldn't.

Also any idea why checking the SID's Pin 24(POTX) and Pin 6(CLK) with a multimeter produces a sound ??

The only thing that comes to my mind is that the 7805 is getting very Hot and i could have damaged it (even though im getting 5v in all the correct places, I guess it could provide a less stable 5v if it was damaged by heat ???)

Thanks

kangoo · August 7, 2005

This Is the mess i get when the core Boots up ( note :this only happens with the Sid application)

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT

000014EE 9 -- F0 Buffer: 8 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7

00001DF0 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

00001DF1 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

00001DF2 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

0000269A 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 01 0D 00 00 00 F7

000026A2 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 01 0D 01 00 00 F7

000026AA 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 01 0D 02 00 00 F7

000026B2 9 -- F0 Buffer: 266 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 01 02 00 49 6E 74 65 72 6E 61 6C 20 50

SYSX: 61 74 63 68 20 20 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 40 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 40 40 40 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 42 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 40 3E 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 7F 00 00 7F 00 00 7F 00 20 10 2E 00 00 00 07 10 7F 07

SYSX: 20 00 01 03 7F 01 40 00 01 50 7F 01 60 00 7F 40 40 40

SYSX: 40 00 60 60 20 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 38 F7

00002707 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 02 0D 00 00 00 F7

00002710 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 02 0D 01 00 00 F7

00002718 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 02 0D 02 00 00 F7

00002720 9 -- F0 Buffer: 266 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 02 02 00 49 6E 74 65 72 6E 61 6C 20 50

SYSX: 61 74 63 68 20 20 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 40 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 40 40 40 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 42 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 40 3E 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 7F 00 00 7F 00 00 7F 00 20 10 2E 00 00 00 07 10 7F 07

SYSX: 20 00 01 03 7F 01 40 00 01 50 7F 01 60 00 7F 40 40 40

SYSX: 40 00 60 60 20 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 38 F7

00002775 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 03 0D 00 00 00 F7

0000277D 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 03 0D 01 00 00 F7

00002785 9 -- F0 Buffer: 11 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 03 0D 02 00 00 F7

0000278D 9 -- F0 Buffer: 266 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 46 03 02 00 49 6E 74 65 72 6E 61 6C 20 50

SYSX: 61 74 63 68 20 20 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 40 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 40 40 40 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 40 42 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 40 3E 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 7F 00 00 7F 00 00 7F 00 20 10 2E 00 00 00 07 10 7F 07

SYSX: 20 00 01 03 7F 01 40 00 01 50 7F 01 60 00 7F 40 40 40

SYSX: 40 00 60 60 20 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

SYSX: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 38 F7

0000553C 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

0000553F 9 -- 80 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00005541 9 -- F8 -- -- -- --- Timing Clock

00005547 9 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing

0000554E 9 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing

00005555 9 -- FC -- -- -- --- Stop

0000625C 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

0000625D 9 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano

kangoo · August 8, 2005

WOW, got the display problem fixed,

never thought the (Factory installed )header on the LCD wouldn't have been soldered properly.

But The Sid Still doesn't make any sound (I bet its some stupid problem that I overlooked)

Any suggestions ?

Is the core supposed to send a bunch of SYSEX messages when it boots up when the SID app is installed ?

EDIT:

I tried the interconnect app, all the values are high no matter what i do.

I also tried connecting the sid ouput directly from the chip and all I can get is a click and short buzzing sound when i change patches. No other Midi inout will work.

Ill try new shift registers if I can get my hands on some.

kangoo · August 8, 2005

OK, I don't know what else to check.

I have searched all over the forum for answers and tried everything i could:

I have tried all the SID chips I have and then checked them in the C64 and they are all functional.

I have checked and re-checked all the connections and can't find any shorts or anything.

I did the interconnection test and all the values are high no matter what.

I replaced the shift registers.

I rebuilt the SID module on a breadboard

I Tried the Audio output of the SID chip directly

I removed the Oscillator and and used the PWM output instead.

The only problems I see are the interconnection test where are the values are always high.

And the all the sysex messages that come up at bootup (Is this supposed to happen ?????)

TK. · August 8, 2005

Yes, the SysEx messages are ok - these are the patches for the slave modules.

Just to be sure (because people oversaw this many times in the past): did you take the new wiring between core and SID module into account? It is different since V1.7 (which was released one year ago), all schematics are updated, but there are still people who are building the project based on the expired schematics.

The required change is easy - see http://www.ucapps.de/mios_v1_7_hardware_mods.html

Best Regards, Thorsten.

kangoo · August 9, 2005

OK, ok Shame on me. ::)

I traced it down to an electrical problem.

After hours of methodical testing i found that pin 28 of the pic was't properly connected to the Shift register, so I narrowed down the problem to a bad solder joint on the J10 (duh) connector. I still can't get sound from the Audio out pin, but I'm pretty sure all I need is to do is replace the transistor.

I feel dumb, because I used to work as a construction electrician and I ran into these sorts of problems all the time

Anyways, thanks for all the help, Sorry for owning my own thread.

PS: Any idea why I get sound when I connect the SID's POTX (or POTY)and CLK ??

TK. · August 9, 2005

I feel dumb, because I used to work as a construction electrician and I ran into these sorts of problems all the time

experience doesn't save you from making errors (the unexpected ones are the uggliest ;-)

Any idea why I get sound when I connect the SID's POTX (or POTY)and CLK ??

Who knows, maybe you've found two secret oscillators of the SID? ;-)

Without a schematic of the silicon it's hard to say why an oscillation can happen on such a connection

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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