MB SEQ as drum sequencer

[gzifcak]

hi,

i am thinking about building a SEQ and was wondering a couple things:

- is it possible to use it as a roland style sequencer? for example, the 16 buttons are step on/off, and the leds rotate as the pattern plays (forgive me if this is how it already works, i can't tell)

- is it possible to leave out the lcd and knobs and just have a button or rotary switch to switch between instruments? i'm imagining a simple box with dedicated controls - a shuffle knob, 16 buttons and leds, start/stop button, maybe a button for the clock divide.

- would it be easy to simulate roland flam effects?

- it would be nice to be able to use the midi clock to send note triggers to instruments, with a divide down for different values. i'm imagining an auto-drum roll, where you just select a clock division for the note value, and hit the roll button to get a continuous stream of notes from the instrument. this would be great for improvising, without having to actually write rolls in separate patterns.

would these things be possible with the SEQ? my idea is to build it into a drum machine, so it  would need only a bare necessity of features accessible from the panel.

thanks for any ideas,

greg

[TK.]

Hi Greg,

- is it possible to use it as a roland style sequencer? for example, the 16 buttons are step on/off, and the leds rotate as the pattern plays (forgive me if this is how it already works, i can't tell)

yes, you can always enable/disable notes with the general purpose buttons, and the LEDs are always rotating like you expect it from a step sequencer.

Btw.: did you read the description about the special drum mode? ->

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_tutorial3.html

- is it possible to leave out the lcd and knobs and just have a button or rotary switch to switch between instruments? i'm imagining a simple box with dedicated controls - a shuffle knob, 16 buttons and leds, start/stop button, maybe a button for the clock divide.

for drum mode, the additional encoders are required. It's to difficult for me to provide much more hardware options. There is a thread running somewhere in the forum about a dedicated drum sequencer firmware with less control elements (not supported from my side), but I guess that the interest wasn't that high.

- would it be easy to simulate roland flam effects?

use tribbled or quadrupled notes

- it would be nice to be able to use the midi clock to send note triggers to instruments, with a divide down for different values. i'm imagining an auto-drum roll, where you just select a clock division for the note value, and hit the roll button to get a continuous stream of notes from the instrument. this would be great for improvising, without having to actually write rolls in separate patterns.

I can only say, that the clock (internal or external doesn't matter) is dividable from 1..16

What do you mean exactly with "roll"? (I don't want to give you a wrong answer...)

would these things be possible with the SEQ? my idea is to build it into a drum machine, so it  would need only a bare necessity of features accessible from the panel.

to say it clearly: initially the MBSEQ was not designed as a drum sequencer. In the meantime drums can be played quite good, but due to the user interface it's not the optimum solution.

MBSEQ provides some possiblilities which you've never seen on a drum sequencer, e.g. the morphing feature is very powerful: it allows you to sweep between two patterns stepless. You can define thresholds for each note seperately (the ModWheel level, at which the sequencer will play the note of the second pattern), which allows very the creation of very dynamic and versatile sequences - live of course.

Also the use of the arpeggiator (which works different compares from the machines you propably know as an arpeggiator) allows to create great drum sequences with a keyboard.

Combine the Arpeggiator with one of the two morphing modes, hit some keys and sweep the modwheel. Remember that 16 tracks can run at the same time... all with totally independent settings... I can only say: killer!!! ;-)

But all these features are mostly not the ones for which people are searching, when they are asking for just another TB808/TB909 sequencer clone. I think that this should stay the topic of other DIY projects

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[gzifcak]

thanks for the info. by roll, i mean a rapidly repeating sequence of notes; think snare drum on every 32nd note. it would be nice to select what value of note you want, like 1/4 all the way to one note for every midi clock, and then hit a button to "roll" a particular drum.

i am hoping to find a drum sequencer that uses the roland style as it's base, but with features that are much more performance-oriented. its a good start but way too basic.

[TK.]

it would be nice to select what value of note you want, like 1/4 all the way to one note for every midi clock, and then hit a button to "roll" a particular drum.

alright - in order to do this, you would have to switch to Layer C. Then you can increase the gate time, until you reach the multi triggering values. However, I must admit, that the usage of this solution is not very exact during live playing - but I don't know a better solution without dramatically changing the user interface.

The gate layer provides 128 different note constellations for each step, a big plus for flexibility, a minus for people who just want to switch between two of them. :-/

Yes, you are right. MBSEQ is not the sequencer that suits your needs!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[gzifcak]

thanks for the info.

i meant that the TR interface is not enough. it sounds like the MB might actually be very good for what i want. the continous shuffle (96 ppq!) and live capabilities make it a very appealing option. i will have to read more of the documents and forum threads and see if it will suit my needs.

thanks a lot,

greg

[gzifcak]

another question:

is it possible to dedicate specific knobs to specific functions? for instance, could i use a knob to always control shuffle? better yet, could i use one encoder to control both inverse and normal shuffle, so that i could sweep all the way from -15 to +15 in one motion?

thanks!

greg

[TK.]

Yes, there are at least 4 prepared "F" (function) buttons, which can be assigned to customized functions. However, it's possible to use the remaining DINs (up to 128 inputs are provided by MIOS) for even more F buttons.

Example for direct jump into Shuffle Menu (the appr. hook can be found in seq_buttons.inc)

;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------
;;  F1 button --- implement your favourite function here!
;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEQ_BUTTON_F1
	;; do nothing if button has been depressed
	IFSET	MIOS_PARAMETER2, 0, return

	;; branch to the groove menu
	movlw	CS_MENU_PAGE_GROOVE
	goto	CS_M_HLP_ChangePage
[/code]


Direct control of shuffle: you could add an encoder, and forward the absolute encoder value to the CC handler. 
A list of available CC parameters can be found here: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq/mbseq_cc_implementation.txt

Realization:
[code]
;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------
;;  This function is called by USER_ENC_NotifyChange when an encoder has
;;  been moved. Input:
;;     o Encoder number in WREG and MIOS_PARAMETER1
;;     o signed incrementer value in MIOS_PARAMETER2:
;;       - is positive when encoder has been turned clockwise
;;       - is negative when encoder has been turned counter clockwise
;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEQ_ENC_Handler
	;; exception if the 18th encoder has been moved
	movlw	18-1
	IFNEQ	MIOS_PARAMETER1, ACCESS, rgoto SEQ_ENC_Handler_NoShuffle
	call	MIOS_ENC_Abs7bitGet	; get absolute value of encoder
	movwf	MIOS_PARAMETER1		; -> forward to CC#40...CC#43
	movlw	40		; CC#40 to control groove of Track 1
	call	SEQ_CCIN_Set
	movlw	41		; CC#41 to control groove of Track 2
	call	SEQ_CCIN_Set
	movlw	42		; CC#42 to control groove of Track 3
	call	SEQ_CCIN_Set
	movlw	43		; CC#43 to control groove of Track 4
	goto	SEQ_CCIN_Set
SEQ_ENC_Handler_NoShuffle

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[gzifcak]

wow. awesome, thanks!

[sonicwarrior]

There is a thread running somewhere in the forum about a dedicated drum sequencer firmware with less control elements (not supported from my side), but I guess that the interest wasn't that high.

Do you mean this thread here?

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=4140.0

I also found the following topics from 2003:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=636.0

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=799.0

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=1067.0

[Cranium]

First off, I want to say this site is incredible.  This is what I've been looking for for a LOONG time.

I've been interested in making "alternative" controllers forever.  Nothing vastly different, just like making a Hammond Chord Organ into a controller (which I'll have questions about soon enough!)

But I wanted to chime in on this thread, since this resonates with my first  "need."

My dream drum programmer already exists:  http://www.simmons.synth.net/sds6/

Unfortunately, I've never seen one available.  And I've been through loads of gear. 

Looks like nobody's done anything remotely similar with midiboxes, or I've missed it.  And it looks like it's not really possible (yet?) with existing code/hardware designs. 

[TK.]

Looks like nobody's done anything remotely similar with midiboxes, or I've missed it.  And it looks like it's not really possible (yet?) with existing code/hardware designs.

It's possible with the hardware, MIOS and parts of the existing MBSEQ application, but such a usecase has never been considered, therefore a lot of code modifications will be required.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[DrBunsen]

My dream drum programmer already exists:  http://www.simmons.synth.net/sds6/

Oh for sure :) ;)  I'm a Simmons fan bigtime - one SDS8 and the voice boards out of an SDS-V sleep peacefully on my workbench awaiting the sting of hot solder.

Check out the Clockbox under MIOS toy of the week.  And this link here implements a simple 16 step seq without even a PIC - just logic.  There are good suggestions there we could use.

Here is an 80 LED matrix off one core - actually 80 connections to red-green-blue LEDs but it comes to the same thing.  80 is 16 steps by 5 voices.

I've been brewing a similar idea for a while.  Shall we start a thread?

[DrBunsen]

I've started a new thread here for my own thoughts on a simple x0x.  It may or may not be what you're thinking, but have a look and let me know.