Bournes encoder rant

[docbrown]

Do any of you guys (or gals, if any) know what manufacturer that makes those encoders found on those commercial instruments like Roland, Korg, Alesis, etc?

The reason I ask is because. No matter how much I try to adjust the speed, wheter I use DETENTED or DETENTED2 settings, I still have some skipping problem once in a while with my Bournes encoder on my MBSEQv2. Although, I found that DETENTED2 is much stable.

If I slightly bump any of the encoder, the settings gets out of whack!!  >:(  >:( Not very cool while in the live performance >:( >:(

I'm sure other folks in this forum feels the same as me ???.

A little encoder comparison:

I have a Roland JV1010 module. The click feel on this instruments encoder is very pronouced, you could really feel it, unlike the Bournes. Also, I noticed that it seems like the Roland's encoder detent is much further away than the Bournes. Hence, more reliable operation without skipping.

Since I'm new to this projects, I'm not sure if this is a quality problem with the Bournes encoder, or I miss another adjustments on some other files.

Even so, I still think those instrument manufacturer are using better encoders that we currently use.

Thanks for letting me vent out :'( :'(  whew!! ;)

[c0nsumer]

Have you tried Alps encoders? The ones I am using (long shaft version) have a nice, solid THUNK feel when turning them.

Remember, because they are switches, if you are turning them faster than the hardware (namely, the Core and the software running on them) can recognize, they *will* skip or do other strange things.

-Steve

[docbrown]

Have you tried Alps encoders? The ones I am using (long shaft version) have a nice, solid THUNK feel when turning them.

Thanks for the link..

Remember, because they are switches, if you are turning them faster than the hardware (namely, the Core and the software running on them) can recognize, they *will* skip or do other strange things.

-Steve

I guess, I'm just expecting so much out of this encoders.. Before I got my Bournes, I was expecting that these encoders will behave like the ones in car radio's and such. I guess that notion is wrong..

thanks..

[c0nsumer]

I guess, I'm just expecting so much out of this encoders.. Before I got my Bournes, I was expecting that these encoders to behave like the one in cars radio's and such.

The encoders aren't all of it, though. They are just two switches, designed to make/break contact in a particular way as the rotary encoder is turned.

Mechanical limitations aside, the rate at which they are scanned (by the software) limits how fast they can be turned. I've personally found it to be plenty fast, but I don't think you can just flick them back and forth. (I can't do this in my car either...)

Dig around in MIOS / whatever to figure out how often they are updated. Then based on that you can figure out the maximum number of 'clicks' per second (or whatever) that they will be able to handle on your implementation. (I think it'll be scanrate / 2, but I may be wrong... Someone please correct me if they would. And then that rate would only be ideal if the contact of the switches happens to fall at the exact time the scan is happening.)

-Steve

[stryd_one]

Before you go down that road, something maybe worth consideration - have you heard anyone else complain about them? No? Maybe it's not the encoders or MIOS, maybe there's something wrong with your box... It sure sounds like it.

[c0nsumer]

Is there any chance you could grab a video clip showing how fast you are trying to spin them?

Just an idea to help us get an idea of the problem you are facing.

-Steve

[docbrown]

Before you go down that road, something maybe worth consideration - have you heard anyone else complain about them? No? Maybe it's not the encoders or MIOS, maybe there's something wrong with your box... It sure sounds like it.

Yes, it could be my box. I can admit to that. ;)

Just to clarify things. You got me all wrong on this. I am not blamming MIOS at all. I even think MIOS is the best thing since slice bread!! ;D and TK is the MIDI god!!  ;D

This is just mearly a rant about the Bournes encoder itself, not the circuit design nor the applications that uses it.

I just read a few links in this forum about people replacing Bournes encoders with Alps or Voti's with great results.

My intention about this post is to get some inputs, to what are the best encoders out there and voice my opinion about the quality of the encoders.

AFAIK, my opinion about Bournes encoder is crap!! and I'm entitled for that.. :P If nobody gives Bournes a negative feedback about their product, they will not fix it at all. Again my opinion...

Whew!! I will shut up now and sit in the corner.. ;D ;D

[docbrown]

Is there any chance you could grab a video clip showing how fast you are trying to spin them?

Just an idea to help us get an idea of the problem you are facing.

-Steve

I will find a way to video the encoders behavior later when I get a chance.

Regarding how fast I'm spinning them, I'm just barely turning them (trying to feel the complete click)when all of the sudden the adjustment would go up or down a few increments.

I say, I have about 0 to 7% failure rate at this moment. But before I change the settings to "DETENTED2", my encoder failure rate is about 10% to 30%. I have to turn the encoder slightly CW or CCW to get the desired note.

What I was expecting is "one click turn = one increment" whether CW or CCW..

There are also times when I turn any of the encoders, that it feels that its sits in the middle of the detent, while the shaft is at rest, very annoying.. >:(

That's why I need to find better quality encoders for my project.

thanks..

[docbrown]

Dig around in MIOS / whatever to figure out how often they are updated. Then based on that you can figure out the maximum number of 'clicks' per second (or whatever) that they will be able to handle on your implementation. (I think it'll be scanrate / 2, but I may be wrong...

Steve,

Thanks for pointing this out for me. I will investigate in that area of the code for now for the temporary fix, until I order some other encoders.

thanks again.

[docbrown]

Just a follow-up on this post.

When I saw this post by SmashTV, specially the picture of the encoder spring, I simply follow the instruction by SmashTV on how to increase the tension on the spring..

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=3299.30

I think this solved the problem with the Bournes encoder. I'm not sure if this is permanent, only time and amount of use can tell.

Now the modified encoder seems to click better than before, and the result of the increment is almost dead on, "one click, one increment". :D Also, the modified ones have more "thunk" to it.

Now I have 10 more encoders to take apart for this mod fix. Be carefull on this type of mod, I almost broke 3 encoders with this process..

thanks..