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jmp220478

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  2. Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

    in Design Concepts

    Posted · Edited by jmp220478

    The saga continues - more information about midi implementation was released on the Sunet support page  - https://www.strymon.net/support/sunset/ so I mailed them again 

     

     Strymon Support response  when I asked about midi pin to TRS jack wiring 
     

    We follow the same TRS MIDI scheme as Disaster Area and Empress. These do not simply wire the 5 pin DIN connections to the TRS; true MIDI data (post opto-isolator) needs to be sent into the pedal. TIP is MIDI IN, and RING is MIDI OUT.

    Our cables here have an opto-isolator in line, and can let you send MIDI into the TRS jack:
    https://store.strymon.net/midi-exp-cable/

    Note that this cable is only one way, and won't let you get MIDI OUT.

    Another way to do it would be to get some kind of MIDI box to split the signal from 5 pin DIN to TRS:
    https://empresseffects.com/products/midibox2

    https://www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/midibox

    The Empress box is nice because one port is bi-directional and you could use MIDI OUT of the Sunset if you needed it.

    Subsequently got this from another forum I raised this on ..

    I emailed Strymon support about the Strymon MIDI Cable and asked them about the cable trying to find out if they adopted the MIDI DIN5 to TRS A OR B standard which basically flips the pins 2&3’s polarity on the TRS Tip and Sleeve respectively. What I got back was neither!  Strymon uses a proprietary cable. The support specialist attached this torn out drawing which is a schematic of the Strymon MIDI Cable.  So I ordered the cable. Cost more than your average MIDI cable. But I have not regretted buying it now. Here’s a link to a picture.  Sorry about what I used and the clarity:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/Md24LCE?s=sms

    There are 3 resistors, a diode, and a 6N138 high speed opto-coupler IC chip inside a cylindrical capsule. One might think it is a ferrite bead but it’s not. So if Strymon has gone to this length to make this cable, there must be something that is not either compatible or reliable using just a straight-thru wiring scenario. Usually this kind of circuit is used to mate different voltages or to keep down interference. So word the the wise over seas who can’t yet get this cable, order the parts and make one somehow. Maybe wire it up on an in-expensive breadboard at least. BTW - This is only for input to the pedal. 

     

    Apologies for super long post but for sake of completeness - I've added all details ; $64000 question now is how do I proceed as diagram looks like TRS back to Midi In flow ? 

     

    I also found this which may help original post - whats going on in an empress midibox 2 => full design schematic 

     

    https://empresseffects.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000114016-i-design-build-guitar-effects-and-i-think-midi-is-rad-can-i-make-my-pedal-compatible-with-the-empres

     

    And further info - https://support.empresseffects.com/support/solutions/articles/1000229541-i-want-to-use-midi-with-your-midi-enabled-pedals-but-i-don-t-want-to-buy-the-midibox-what-are-my-op

     

    Heeeeeeeelllllllllpppppp    :-) 

  3. Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

    in Design Concepts

    Posted

    13 hours ago, Antichambre said:

    I'm not sure to understand but:
    I said that on the regular MIDI gear side you need the MIDI Out to supply the MIDI In! but you don't need the MIDI In connected for a single MIDI Out !
    here if I understand, first you've got the first and second gear with regular MIDI:
    JOYO MIDI Out => Timeline MIDI In         
    to finish you need to control your sunset from the timeline(MIDI out), the full chain is
    JOYO MIDI Out => [Timeline MIDI In... Timeline MIDI Out] => Sunset TRS

    then no problem.

    thanks I was confused by the use of both midi in and outs to connect to the single TRS jack - hence asking for the qualification 

     

     

  4. Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

    in Design Concepts

    Posted · Edited by jmp220478

    14 hours ago, Antichambre said:

    Do it slowly, properly and take care. If it's like Meris and Empress the same TRS 6,25 is used for expression pedal(analog), for Tap(switch) and for MIDI then this must be highly protected. More than that, as I said before the regular 220Ohm MIDI resistors will act as current limiter.
    Don't put 220V in it that's all ;)

    Notes: With my diagram, MIDI In will work only if the MIDI Out is connected, The 5V for MIDI in is provided by the Output. The trick is there. This must be the function of the disaster box and others, they are actives boxes(powered) they provide this 5V and they distribute and merge to and from their multiples TRS connectors.

     

    Many thanks for feedback - the exp jack socket on the sunset ( overdrive / distortion unit ) controls volume / other parameters with an expression pedal and midi with their bespoke cable . 

    With your solution - you are using the out and in of another pedal ie my timeline ?  their cable is a single  MIDI to 6.35mm TRS lead  - enabling me to send midi info ex a programmable pedal board to the timeline => Sunset, otherwise all changes will have be from delay alone ( see below )   .. is there a way to do this without connecting midi out and in on the send device => Sunset ?

     

    currently I have 

    Programmable Joyo pedal looper - single midi out => Strymon Timeline delay  ( used for patch changes ) 

    my ambitiion 

    as above but Midi out Timeline => TRS EXP jack in Strymon Sunset ( patch changes to align with delay ) 

     

    many  thanks 

  6. Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

    in Design Concepts

    Posted

    13 hours ago, latigid on said:

    I don't like the idea of combining MIDI in and out on one 1/4" jack. It's just another variation on the standard that will confuse. TRS 3.5mm jack with individual signals is bad enough :).

    What feature do you wish to use? I.e using the MIDI in of the Strymon? Or sending the MIDI out from the Strymon? 

    I just want to use midi into Sunset pedal to access new patch feature - from what I can see ( novice opinion of course ) the cable is unlikely to carry active components ? would this be a simple wiring orientation ie if my reading is correct then pin 2 to trs jack sleeve ; pin 4 to tip?   pin 5 to ring ?   is there a need for resistors ?

  7. Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

    in Design Concepts

    Posted

    Newbie here on all things MIDI - but keen to learn ..

    I have a specific question to a new Strymon MIDI feature  recently made available on their Sunset / Riverside pedals - and which uses a MIDI to TRS jack connection  on their  custom cable - unavailable in UK til late October and I'd like to use facility asap  - googled and hence I'm here and looking for feedback based on your work above please - realise of course big ask from non contributor to date but any advice greatly received ..

    164_zoom_1534893191.jpg Strymon bespoke cable - is it possible to replicate based on information provided below ?

    info ex their site -  On our pedals equipped with a 1/4? TRS MIDI connection (Riverside and Sunset), the MIDI data is received by the pedals from the TIP of this connection.  When MIDI OUT or THROUGH is enabled on these pedals, the MIDI data is sent out of the pedal from the RING of the TRS connection.

    also - recommended interface units - which I dont want to buy as its more pedalboard real estate

      • Disaster Area Designs – DPC Gen 3 Series, DMC Gen 3 Series, MIDIBox
      • Empress Effects – MIDIbox2

    nb - this is a question on a youtube posting 

     

    Hey guys, could I hook up one of your drive pedals to the Meris MIDI I/O instead? Asking because I already have one of those.

    Yes, Riverside and Sunset will communicate via MIDI with any TRS MIDI box that sends signals to the pedal on the TIP and receives signals from the pedal on the RING of the TRS connection.?

    best regards and thanks in advance for any advice

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