John_W._Couvillon

TK, The MBHP_DIO_matrix would have saved me lots of trouble 4 months ago as I planned encoding 4 keyboards. I followed the same approach, but with a DIN4X and DOUT4X, ending up with encoding capability for 16 matricies which is over kill. I ended up with 4 matricies, three for keyboards, and one for contacts on the SAMS which had to be wired with the diodes on each SAM. This was very "wireing" intensive, whereas the new keyboard matrix would have simplified things greatly. Thanks for your continued work in this area. have you given any thought to an output matrix? Consider this - Each SAM has 12vdc available on the device which is sufficient for installation of two transistor drivers on each SAM, one for each magnet, with a very limited PIC controller programmed to have one input whereby one magnet is driven with an "on" signal, the other with an "off" signal. The output matrix would do all the decoding and activate each matrix location based on conventional DOUT coding. Actually, why couldn't a bistable flip-flop be used, each side driving a magnet, the flip flop changng state with the "on"/"off" signal from the output decoder. just a thought. Would really save a lot of wiring and hardware. Since each SAM has a pcb attached, the additional stuff could be installed on the pcb. For SAMS that come with a connector already installed, the mod could be done with a small plug on board, with no work needed on the SAMS pcb. Going a bit further, currently, it takes 2 DOUTS to drive SAMS, for 64 SAMS total with 4 DIN4X. the same "flip-flop" driver on a plug on pcb could be used with conventional DIN4X which would permit 128 SAMS. This would eliminate the ULN driver addition to the DOUT cards. Does this make any sense? johnc

Thanks for the comments guys. You are correct TK, the DIN4X and DOUT4X are small. Perhaps Smashtv would entertain a slightly enlarged version. Wouldn't take but a couple of millimeters. A few comments about the mios studio. The midi monitor does not display the complete config for the matrixes - matricies, and what it does display is mixed up. Also please comment about the speed of display of inputs and outputs on the mon display on the lcd. It flashes much too fast to read. Last question - Remembering that i am working with an LPC and a PIC8 tied together. With mios studio loaded, either device can be querried. with the midio128 V2 screen on the monitor, what happens if you send or receive with the device number set to the LPC instead of the pic8? Johnc

TK, Today I finally got midio128 ver 3.007, and jOrgan ver 3.14 working together. Big problem all along was that of midi channel mis-match. 0-15 vs 1-16. Had to do some juggling. With midio 128 on the LPC, is it possible to make the monitor display of inputs and outputs last a bit longer. Currently it is too fast to read. Other then the above, the LPC is doing a fine job. It would be great if the midibox DINS and DOUTS and Pic8 cores all had polarized connectors. Thanks TK for a great device, and the willingness to help me get my LPC up and going. Johnc

TK, thanks for the tips. After alot of experimenting, I am suspecting several causes: 1. The correlation inbetween the row/col note assignments and the way that the DIN/DOUTs are actually wired. I am using one DIN4x and one DOUT4x, where DIN 1 - and DOUT 1-1 are matrix #1. DIN 1-2 and DOUT 1-1 are matrix #2. DIN 1-3 and DOUT 1-2 are matrix 4 and DIN1-4 and DOUT 1-1 are matrix #3. matrix # DIN DOUT Channel Description First note # 1 1-1 1-1 1 Accomp keyboard 0X24 2. 1-2 1-1 2 Great keyboard 0X24 3 1-3 1-2 5 stop (SAMS) contacts 0X24 4 1-4 1-1 3 solo Keyboard 0X24 A simple test of the matrix using midiox pressing each keyboard key one at a time shows the correct note number and note for each key. The same holds true for matrix 3 on channel 5. In a way of explanation, hardware wise, the DIN4x and DOUT 4x are hardwired DIN 1-1 pin I0 to DOUT 1-1 pin D0 and so on to form a 64x64 total matrix, although not all is used. it would be a 8x64 with one common DOUT however mechanically i couldn't connect any more connectors to DOUT 1-1. I recall your caution about the problems trying to use a 64x64 matrix Question #1; Have I violated any design consideration with regard to how the matrix software functions? I am assuming that the channel assignment has nothing to do with the matrix number, such that assigning matrix 3 to channel 5 is not a problem. Question#2 On the DOUTS, I am re-using a DOUT4x card and the resistor on the output side of the SR's have been removed. So its Dout pin connected to DIN pin. Th unused DOUT/DIN pin junctions are then floating and not connected to any external contact and diode. is this a problem? Question #3; The LPC and Pic8 are interconnected USB1 TO OUT1, IN1 TO USB1, all channels. With only mios Studio running on the PC, default MIO and Pic8 config loaded, 4-DOUT4X driving 128 magnets on the PIC8, By engaging the keyboard on mios studio, set to the midi channels assigned to the PIC8 DOUT pin assignments, the matching notes on the keyboard trigger the DOUT magnets on the PIC8 and the mios studio midi out window shows the message sent out, which matches all the assignments. Strangely, the left window in mios studio displays the correct DIN assignments for note # and channel on matrix #3. Actually this is correct, as when the on magnet picks up moving the SAMS armature, the contact closes, and that change is reflected as an input to matrix #5. Am I using the mios studio correctly? If I have the latest version of midio128 shouldn't that show up on mios studio's query? johnc

TK, What problems were corrected? I am having a problem with communications inbetween devices. The LPC encodes the SAMS sense contacts (DIN matrix), message goes out usb1 to jOrgan on the pc, jOrgan sends out via USB "on" message thru the LPC OUT1 to the pic8 which decodes the message and drives the SAMS magnet. The router is set properly, and the .mio file appears to be correct. Using mios studio as a test, the pic8 can be keyed using the keyboard on the respective channels set up for the messages to the PIC8 and all magnets checked out. also the jOrgan output monitor shows the messages going out. Any suggestions? Johnc Some how, messages from jorgan don't get to the pic8.

yes, you are so correct. At this point, the LPC and the pic8 are talking, and everything seems to be working fine. I was getting some strange din input messages along with the correct one coming from the keyboard stop tab matrices. when I pushed a stop tab down, a midi message for the correct note came thru, but also 5 other note on/off messages ckame through, always on channel 1, even if the actual stop being set was on channel 3. I noticed it mostly when several stops were set, and one additional was pressed. If all stops were off, and one was pressed, only one note on/off message came through. Any suggestions? johnc

TK, My project continues! Of the three core8's that I have, two are old one 5 years + the other almost 10 years old. The one with ID=2 is new with latest boot loader and mios. The only one that will be recognized by mios studio 2.2.3 when wired to the router on the LPC is the latest one with the id=2. With it I can query the lpc id=0, change the query id to2 and it will pull up the core8. could the fact that the old cores have a long past version of mios and the boodloader have anything to do with my problems? Currently, having strange response from the matricies for the keyboards. Playing middle c (note 60) and monitoring with midiox, the note 60 message is shown with the correct channel, but about 12 other notes also show, all with channel 1. i'm looking for wiring problems. johnc

TK, Live and learn. I will disable the midi merger on the pic, and move on. Thanks alot! johnc

TK, Please re-read my post. Mios studio recognized the LPC with one midi cable configuration,and the PIC8 with a different cable configuration, It wasn't just changing the id from 0 to 1! Since the router was set up using IN1 and OUT1, I was expecting that mios studio would recognize either device by only changing the ID# for the query. No cable changes. Is my expectation in error? If what I described with the cable changes is the way it should work, then I suspect that the cable arrangement that matches the router config. is the correct arrangement for operation. Also, I was expecting MIOS studio to list the PIC8 as well as the LPC in the device lists, I guess thats not correct either. Addressing the comments in your post: I understand that, I was expecting to see the pic8 in the device list of mios studio, as it appears when using the midiman 2x2. with the hardware arrangement I am using, mios studio shows only one midi device in the MIDI in and out device list. Actually, The results of the retest are the same for the original test. What I did was experiment with the prescribed setup, changing the ID, and also trying the other Core8's(different ID's)suspecting a hardware issue and forgot to change it back before doing the screen dump. What I didn't do when experimenting with the different setups was to try different cable arrangements, and that was based on my assumption that the router configuration in the LPC MIO file governed what the cable connection needed to be so I didn't even consider changing them. Please understand that I am aware that quite a few people are reading this post, many just like me (somewhat inept) who are struggling with the new hardware, and trying to understand how to use it. Many with expectations based on experience with the basic pic8, midiox, and other software, and are looking for parallels inbetween the new and old devices. I ask a lot of questions, and provide a lot of input simply for varification that my understanding is correct, or, that I am misinterpreting, or have false expectations. I hope you accept my comments as constructive and not critical in any way. The forum has been a God send to me, without which I could never have had any success with midibox, in any of its varied forms. My focus has been on midio128 for the PIC8 and now for the LPC, and I value greatly you attention to my unique situation. I attribute my continued participation in the forum to the simple premise that has persisted all along, that "no question is dumb or stupid" and worthy of an answer. I am sure that my questions have many times provoked a "thats a stupid question" comment, but no one ever said it, and I am thankful for that. Thanks again for you resourcefulness, creativity, and ingenuity and willingness to share your talents with us in the form of "Midibox". Thanks, johnc Johnc

TK, 1. Yes, I understand, the LPC is following the config in the .mio file. 2 " yes, I understand! Evidently in swopping cores around, i left the ID=2 in place. The re-test are all with the same core. 3. REtest results: retest 1 - See attach below (Retest 1 LPC.jpg). No the query of the LPC did not work. retest 2 - See attach below (Retest 2 LPC.jpg) Retest 3 - See attach below (Retest 3 LPC.jpg) Note the last entries on the terminal log. When i moved stop tabs that are connected to the DINS on the Core8, the entries appeared on the log, even though mios studio would not query the core. something I also noticed is that when I moved stop tabs connected to the matrix on the LPC, the entries appeared on the midi in list at the left top of the mios studio display. 4. With the LPC and core8 connected together, mios studio will query the Core 8, but not find it. Hope this helps. After the retesting, I did some testing; 1. changed the router back to USB1 all OUT1 all IN1 all USB1 all the midi cable connections, IN1, OUT1 on the LPC to out and in on the pic8. A query of id=1, connected with the PIC8. Great! A query of id=0, got nothing. I changed the cable connections to; IN1, OUT2 on the LPC to out and in on the core 8, Queried the id=0 (LPC) and it worked. I looked at the mio file for the LPC and the IN1 port and OUT1 ports are used throughout, at the appropriate places, of course. this matches with the router configuration. My assumption has been that the router config has control of where the midi signals go. Evidently thats not the case. I don't know what this means, but here it is anyway. Side question - should the midi merge on the pic8 be enabled, or disabled? Thanks for all the help! johnc

TK, Now I'm really confused! The pic8 core has a 1 on it, as setup by smash tv. I connected the core 8 to the midiman 2x2 and ran mios studio2.2.3. see attached screen print. So mios studio will query the core and recognize it, without the LPC in the picture. You say it is configured for id=2. I don't understand. if mios studio recognizes it as id=1, isn't it configured correctly. This is the core8 I used to run the tests. I have 3 core8's, id=0, ID=1 and id=2. I didn't use the id=0 core because the LPC was on id=0. The core with id=2 is a more recent core and has the j8/J9 connection in a different place whereby my cables to the DIN4x were short, so I settled on the core8 with ID=1. With the core8, ID=1 in place I ran all the tests, changing the core8 ID to 0, 1, 2, 3 to be sure it wasn't mis-marked. the LPC was set on id=0 wherein it was recognized. I queryied the core 8 with a variety of id's when it was diasey chained as we discussed, the router setup as you prescribed, and in no case would mios studio recognize the core8, including with the ID =1. evidently the core 8 is working, as with the midimonitor enabled on mios terminal, pressing down stop keys shows input from the DIN4x attached to the core8, and the core8 startup string also shows. So if in fact the core8 is configured as id=2, what do I do the change it, knowing that mios studio recognizes it as core=1. If I have not done everything as you prescribed, please say so and I'll do it again. Or if you have some other test, I'll do it. If you need a diagram of the connections, or photos of the cores, etc. I will do that to. We seem to be close to a solution. Please help me resolve it. With the router setup as you described in your earlier email, using USB1 and IN2 and OUT2, and the LPC and core8 connected together, the midimonitor in mios studio shows midi messages coming from the DIN's on the LPC as well as the DIN's connected to the core8. With the cs active, the monitor on the cs did not respond as I feel it should. inputs from the core 8 caused the USB1 and IN2 to blink. Inputs to the DIN's connected to the LPC, make the USB1 and OUT1 blink, rather then OUT2. Is this correct? if I'm not explaining the clearly, please say so and I'll try to do better. johnc

TK, Just noticed this: with the router setup same as for the step2 tests, using in2 and out2, DIN's connected to the LPC and the pic8, Looking at the mon on the cs, moving a key on the LPC caused the USB1 to blink and the OUT1 to blink. moving a switch on the pic8 caused the usb1 and the IN2 to blink. Shouldn't the mon show USB1 and OUT2 to blink for DIN inputs to the LPC. the mios terminal confirms the setup. Johnc

TK, screen shots didn't go through. here they are again TK, screen shots didn't go through. here they are again TK, New thing to report. I hooked up a DIN4X to the pic8 core, and with the LPC and PIC8 still hooked up as in test 2 and 3, with the midimon enabled, moving a stop or key shows up on the mios studio display. So Pic 8 output is being routed to IN2 and to USB1 Johnc

Per your data request; 1) connect an IN/OUT pair of your MIDISPORT 2x2 to OUT1/IN1 of the LPC17 module (a common bidirectional connection, nothing special here) Select the appr. ports of your MIDISPORT interface in MIOS Studio and press the Query button -> is the LPC17 core regognized? Yes! See screen print 1 2) remove your MIDISPORT (not required for next tests), and select the IN/OUT port of your LPC17 core in MIOS Studio again. Enter following commands in MIOS Terminal: set router 1 IN2 all USB1 all set router 2 USB1 all OUT2 all router save DEFAULT "set router .." will change the setup of Node 1 and 2 remotely, the "router" command will output the current connections, "save DEFAULT" will store the changes in the .MIO file Please post the complete terminal output here which is print when these commands are entered. I especially need to know the complete router setup. See Screen print 2 3) enable the MIOS terminal based MIDImon as above, and power-cycle the PIC core - does it send a SysEx message during startup? Print the terminal output here See screen print 3 Note. 1. The screen prints of the terminal log continue on each screen print. 2. The midimon did show the pic8 start up string with the power on cycle test. 3. The query of the pic8 never worked. 4. What is the midi clock item showing on the terminal log in step 1. Which ports does it refer to? hopefully the screen prints are readable, if not I'll redo them. The step 3 screen prints are on the next post. Johnc

TK, I'm reviewing the tests you prescribe and have a question. I am running the LPC on its USB port. If I understand test #1, I am to plug the USB midiman 2x2 into a USB port on the computer and connect the midi in and out to the LPC. Since you didn't ask how the LPC is being powered, it is not a problem for the LPC and midiman to be both USB connected to the same pc. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I don't want to blow anything. I have enough problems already. Thanks. johnc

JTk I am out of town thrum Sunday and will do the tests when I return Johnc

Ilmmenator, My intent is to use the LPC and a core8 in a daisey chain arrangement to secure more I/O. This all started with setup of the LPC, etc. TK walked me through the setup and then the problems showed up. Initially, mios studio detects the LPC and displays all pertinent data. However, the core 8 is not recognized, although it does have a different ID from the LPC. Tk first suspected a hardware problem, which was explored, and found the following; With the core8 connected to midiox, with a midiman 2x2 adapter, both inputs and outputs are functioning with normal data displayed on the device list. with mios studio 2.2.3 running with the same hardware setup, the core8 is not recognized. and the midi in and out ports are not listed at the top for selection. Is it possible that the LPC and core 8 are working together correctly, but the issue is with mios studio? Johnc

TK, Actually, I had ver. 2.2.2 running. But this is what I found experimenting with two different Core8 units, with both versions of mios studio: 1. When I connected up a core8 to mios studio 2.2.2, the core would not be recognized. The midi inputs and outputs don't come up at the top for selection. I checked everything, nothing wrong in wiring. so I closed out mios studio, and loaded midiox. with no change in wiring, not even denergizing the core, midiox displayed the opening string, and pressing a DIN input key, saw the note on and note off on the monitor. 2. I changed to a different core8 and repeated the test, and got the same result. 3. Repeated 1 and 2 with mios studio 2.2.3 and got the same results. Strangely, mios studio 2.2.2 and 2.2.3 will recognize the LPC query. Also, I went over the solder connections on the LPC midi in and out connectors. Johnc

TK, I went over the connections on the midio in and out, both 1 and 2 on the LPC, to no avail. Mios studio sees the LPC and also sees input from the keyboard matricies, but does not see the core 8 at all. I disassembled the midi wiring, and reconnected the core8 with my midio2x2 adapter. The core8 responds to the query from mios studio and both in and out midi ports show up. with midiox, the inputs from the DIN connected to the core 8for the pedal come through and are displayed. Don't know what to try next. Johnc

TK, The LPC is receiving input from the core8 as evidenced by the mon on the lpc, and the mon also shows that there is output to the core8 from the LPC. However, mios studio will not query the Core 8.I changed out the input isol. chip on the core 8, but no effect. I also switched midicables, no effect The core9 had been in use before without failure. I used the midi terminal on the mios studio to look at the router setup, and it is ok, however there is a line item that refers to the set mclk_in <<portin/out>, <on/off>. is this relevant? At this point I am agreeing with you that midi out is not getting to the core 8 input. I'll check on solder connections on both core8 and LPC. Is there a loop back test I can use on the LPC to confirm midi out to midi in? That would confirm solder connections on the LPC. Thanks for staying with me on this. Johnc PS: The LPC is really a neat device, and I know will serve my organ project very well. The more I play with it, the more I learn, the more I see how powerful it is. Congratulations!

TK, found out something interesting. As I mentioned on my last post, I activated the MSD and downloaded the DEFAULT.MIO file from the MSD card: 1. Modified it deleting matrix code for matrix 5 thru 16 since they are not used. 2, Changed the Router setup on the .MIO per your changes, As shown on my last post, final file size 14K. 3. I deleted the DEFAULT.MIO file from the SD card, and uploaded the new one over to the SD card. 4. deactivated the MSD card, went to menu and checked the Router setting on the LCD to verify that they were there, and they were. 5. Deactivated the MSD again, and opened the DEFAULT.MIO in notepad++ The DEFAULT.MIO file was not the same as I had uploaded. It was the original DEFAULT.MIO, but with the modifications I had made, plus the code I had deleted. Also the notes and headings i had added were gone. I interpret this to mean that the complete DEFAULT.MIO file has to be there. you can modify it, but not delete anything. Lastly, before you made the change on the router, When making a change thru the CS, it took; NODE 1 USB1;ALL;IN1 NODE 2 OUT1;All;USB1 After the change, the same entries i.e. IN1, OUT1, etc. still appear on the CS, but the new coding uses MIDI1 and MIDI2. Confused. Johnc

TK, Thanks for the help. At this point I have loaded the new midio128 version, and seems to work ok, with exception of the Router. Mios studio does show the correct version. I use one default file which is the original default.MIO customized, but retaining filename DEFAULT.MIO. I removed all the extra matrix codes beyond 4 and anything else that is not being used so i have codes for DIN, DOUT, Matrixes and router. With it loaded to the sd card, the changes do appear on the CS LCD, as do the pin numbers, channels and corresponding MIDI notes. I have yet to make a change on the CS, save it to the default.mio, reversing the process, but will do that. As setup, I have 4, 8x8 matrices, using 4DINS and 1DOUT, set up as "mapped" in the .MIO. With the LPC operating alone(no cross MIDI connection to the core8), midiox displays all the correct note parameters for 3 keyboards and all of the stop sense contacts. FOR the Router setup; 1. The "all channel" appears as "17" on the default mio, and as "ALL" on the CS LCD, so I assume that is correct? 2. Current setup for the router is; Node 1 is 10;17;20;17 and node 2 20;17;10;17. As I understand the router, this connects the USB1 to the midi1 ports on the LPC. The LCD display still shows IN1 and OUT1 rather then "midi1" as per you post. should It? Physically speaking midi out1 of the PLC is connected to midiin on the core8, and midi in1 on the LPC is connected to midiout on the core 8. The LPC is ID=0 and the core8 is id=1. Connected as I have described, the core 8 is not found by mios studio, nor do DIN inputs to the core 8 show up on midiox. I have tried all that I can think of to no avail. Help! Johnc

quote]If you are already using a customized version, you could just update your (complete) repository to get the latest changes under $MIOS32_PATH/mios32 - thereafter recompile your application -> done!

TK, Before I reload midio128, remember that you did a custom for me on the mode issue so i have a MAP mode for matrix setup. if I download the new version will this kill the Map feature? A new problem came up this morning while I was testing, which involves the MSD card. I customized the default.mio, renamed it ARTISAN.MIO and with the MSD enabled on the LPC transferred it to the sd card. I disabled MSD, went back to the menu on the CS, disk, found ARTISAN on the list and pressed LOAD. The message patch loaded came up. Went back to the menu selected "router", selected node 1, then set the channel for ALL. I enabled MSD again, and opened the ARTISAN.mio in the the sd card directory with notepad++. Looking down the file, the change i made to the router node 1 to add channel "all" was not changed. 5 Questions: 1. If a change is made to a parameter through the control surface is the change also made on the SD card? So if i download the .MIO file, it will be changed. 2. Is it a problem to use notepad++ in lieu of open calc. 3. In the matrix setup in the .mio file. What do you put in the string for mode, "MAP, NORM, whatever". The default has a 1? Is the mode 1n normal? 4. Same question for Router setup, What do you put in the string for CH if you want "ALL", the word, or is there a number? 5. When the LPC is energized, does it load the default.mio automatically, such tha if you want something else, you have to manually change it. Using the LPC in my organ, I don't want to have to manually load the .mio file each time I turn on the organ. Sorry about all the question, but who else can I ask. Johnc