Yet another drum trigger post.

[Jidis]

I know these come up all the time, but I'm having trouble finding some basic details.

I'm thinking of throwing together something similar to what Cheekyrooster was asking about the other day. I'd probably want 4-6 piezo based pads, but also an easy method of changing note out assignments to quickly map them to different drums. I'd go with one of the existing trigger to MIDI PIC designs on the web, but I'm considering ultimately not using an LCD and maybe trying an alternate method of displaying note assignment (maybe LEDs). I figure MIOS would be the way to go there.

Has anyone already done an MB drum pad app that I couldn't find here, and/or could point me to any details on routing piezos to a core?

-Thanks!

George

[cimo]

what s the problem with edrum.info? why don t you stick a MB with an eDrum together?

(btw one of your lcds had found home in a temporary setup for my 6582!, the burner instead just made me crazy!)

[Jidis]

Hey Simone :)

Cause I just want a few piezos converted to MIDI notes, and figured if I needed to do any weird mods to try to get note assignments spit out to LEDs or some custom switch/button code, I wouldn't be able to do much with a non-MIOS circuit. I also want it as small as possible.

I could swear I've seen people add triggers to an MB64 app or something. I don't even need any of the pot functions.

George

PS- Yeah, I use those 2x40 screens too on junk boxes here! It's nice having something cheap that you don't have to worry about. Any ideas on what the burner did wrong, or what to look out for? I've got one here too that was etched from that same board file. I think we both did the same tweaks already. I've only needed to use mine a few times though.

[cimo]

the burner thing is one of those experience i want to try to forget as soon as possible ;)

could swear I've seen people add triggers to an MB64 app or something. I don't even need any of the pot functions.

i think this was using the velocity code with normal switches, if you want to use piezos  you need opamp circuit, maybe you can use the analog board from eDrum and interface them to the core with a C application.I had the same idea some time ago but it ended up on nothing, which happens quite often when you have a pile of projects (yes j the brainwave radio first, sure) in the waiting list and a messy lab and life.

Back to the topic, it shouldnt be difficult to plug the edrum analog circuit to aPIC s  ADC and write some C code.Actually that sound quite promising but i promise to myself i wont get involved in this! go away!

[cimo]

but i promise to myself i wont get involved in this! go away!

from Edrum.info:

I choose LM324 because of it's capability to work with signals from GND (including 0V) to something below Vcc (Vcc-1.4V). To achive 0-5V output for full ADC range, LM324 has a separated power supply of 8V.

so you can just connect the analog board to the analog input of a core and read the velocity as you would read a pot

.or am i making it too easy?

again from eDrum

eDrum is actually using 10 bit resolution A/D, and separate grounds for analog and digital parts of the circuit are needed. This is something to worry about when making the PCB layout.

.could the separate supply circuits be a problem? (that shouldn t)

simone

[Jidis]

Yeah, I saw the amp boards there and also at Tom Scarff's site (I think). I just don't want to mess with something if nobody else has already knocked out the trigger to MIDIBox part of it yet. 8)

George

Sorry to pry again--- So what did the burner do (what might I expect or be warned of)? Could save me some hassle if I get back to using it.

[cimo]

So what did the burner do ?

err absolutely nothing  :D

let me link you:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,10378.msg78441.html#msg78441

[stryd_one]

using the velocity code with normal switches,

If by 'normal' you mean spst, that don't work ;)

jidis: ucapps.de... midibox extensions... CV input example. Now it's coding time. Enjoy ;)

[/tilted/]

Could you not simply use the eDrum as is for the trigger-to-MIDI conversion, and a midibox device to handle the transposition to different drums?

[Jidis]

Could you not simply use the eDrum as is for the trigger-to-MIDI conversion

Probably, I just wanted to keep it as minimal as possible since I only want a few pads and not much else. I just figured if there was already an app that uses the A.Ins for triggers or something, it would be a good starting point.

And thanks Stryd for the pointer. I've got it saved and will be looking over it, but I'm probably going to work out the actual pad/piezo design first. I've got several trigger to MIDI units here that I can wire them to for trial & error testing. BTW- A bit of the good past info here by people working on drum triggers seems to be dead links and stuff now, maybe from the old forum archives.

-- also- You actually had me looking at those Akai "S" units for a bit. >:(  I was sort of liking the 3200 or something (the max'd out one right past the 2000). I've got to keep things in perspective though and see how much I actually end up using these stupid Peavey things in 2008 before I go grabbing more old rack gear. It's surprising that as simple as that old technology probably is now, they don't really have anything with the basic features, shrunk down to a small board or even a specialized IC. I'd love to have something like the Peavey,Akai,Kurzweil rack sampler technology in something the size of my SR-16 drum machine, with external connectivity for Akai CD/drives, sample transfers,etc. (...for cheap of course)

George 

[stryd_one]

A bit of the good past info here by people working on drum triggers seems to be dead links and stuff now, maybe from the old forum archives.

:( Well I must admit, there is a lot of good info outside of midibox/ucapps for this... And trial and error is actually kinda good here because the results vary so widely and everyone has a different preference to how they'd work.

I was sort of liking the 3200 or something (the max'd out one right past the 2000)

A maxxed out s2000 is the same as a maxxed out 3200, except only with a 2x20 CLCD (instead of a GLCD on the 3200)... If you use a software editor over scsi, the screen becomes obsolete ;)

I've got to keep things in perspective though and see how much I actually end up using these stupid Peavey things in 2008 before I go grabbing more old rack gear.

Avoiding GAS huh?

It's surprising that as simple as that old technology probably is now, they don't really have anything with the basic features, shrunk down to a small board or even a specialized IC. I'd love to have something like the Peavey,Akai,Kurzweil rack sampler technology in something the size of my SR-16 drum machine, with external connectivity for Akai CD/drives, sample transfers,etc. (...for cheap of course) 

Yeh totally.... Although, the s2000 is surprisingly empty internally.... you could probably hack it up pretty easy into a smaller desktop case... hmmmmm

[Jidis]

the s2000 is surprisingly empty internally.... you could probably hack it up pretty easy into a smaller desktop case...

Damn, there you go again! >:(

That's what I want to do with one of the two Peaveys, but the boards are actually sort of long. I guess they're probably close to PC motherboard size (full ATX), but they run longways front-to-back. If I mounted it in an ASR-X type of config, I'd have to put the board sideways and rewire the jacks I needed to the back panel. Luckily, it doesn't have many (4 audios and MIDI). The newer one is cool inside. It's got power headers for internal drives and a 50 pin SCSI header on the motherboard. Funny though, it has NO space left inside for any of that (Peavey SPs are 1U!!). It's almost like maybe they were planning to go with a larger case at some point. It also has a s***load of open EPROM sized sockets inside for something. Would have been awesome if you could access your own custom ROMs along with the regular sampler RAM, but I guess that idea will die with its creator.

BTW- One of the reasons I really thought about that Akai was that I kept hearing about how much of a crapshoot Akai patch conversion is on most stuff. I think the true Akais are the only real guarantee you have that you can play the CD format without anything sounding skewed. Were the 2/3xxx good about taking standard upgrades for memory and all? (that was one of the things I wasn't too into with older Akais I was involved with).

Oh, and the drum trigger info I was referring to here was actually from people making MIOS/MB trigger apps (not the pad/piezo info). That was why I was more disappointed to find the forum links dead and none of the apps in the user projects or anything. If anyone had any success with one, I'd love to see it.

George

[cimo]

..about diy pads..

i have access this year to 2 different edrum, a cheap 400 euros set and a 2000 euros roland machine.Believe me that you ll never be able to make pro pads.Launching samples and having some kind of control over velocity is doable but getting the same response, feeling and precision as a $$ machine is nearly impossible.Same goes for the electronic hardware, i can see how in the Roland gear everything is fine tuned, starting from the mesh all the way up to the software and its setup

simone

btw i have a bunch of piezos here at home which i never used, they ended up in the famous waiting pile

[Jidis]

Hey Simone,

No, this is just button type trigger junk (MPC style). I agree on the drum pads though (I play drums). I worked at a place where we had some Roland TDs a few years back and they were way nicer than my old-ass Simmons or the old Roland pad here, and I imagine the current crop of nicer electronic drum pads even smoke those ones. My relation with electronic drums however, is more for practice from books,etc., where most of the playing is more rigid and open, so the weird dynamics of lighter, faster notes don't really matter there.

The "brains" are just as bad. The only new'ish trigger converter I've got is an Alesis D4. Then, I've got a pile of older stuff (the Simmons SDS-1000, an Octapad/PAD-80, and a Roland PM-16). It's a world of difference using one of those older ones for triggering than going with the D4. They're all pretty slow. I'm anxious to see what the MIDIBox or eDrum can do in that regard.

This is likely similar to what I'll try on the pads:

It's a piezo floated in a disc of fiberglass resin and coated afterward with liquid latex. It's also stuck to a base of mouse pad material for isolation. The ones I do now will probably be squares though, and a bit thinner.

George

PS- Got a bag of raw "new" piezos here just like you. I think I've had them over a decade now. ;)

[cimo]

hi

the drum i was talking about is a almost top serie Roland v-drum of the TD line.

have you got cables already soldered on your piezos? i don t and ST warned me about the danger of heating up too much the thing.Any advice?

simone

[Jidis]

have you got cables already soldered on your piezos?

NO.....NO....NO!  They're totally raw (the one in that picture was something else).

I had an email long ago from someone I asked about it, but it was old info. If you find any details on making a strong safe connection to them, please post or link!

-Thanks,

George

[cimo]

[tt]cimo waves the voodoo chicken[/tt]

SmashTV i remember we talked about soldering cables on raw piezos any hint?