boops Posted March 11, 2008 Report Posted March 11, 2008 hi,i find this:Selected Scale: allows you to select one of 128 (!!!) scales, which are used by all tracks with enabled "force scale" optionThanks to Stryd One for providing all the scale definitions! :-)at this day a scale by pattern or by track? i look for the 128 predefined scales ..ex mode dorien ;napolitain...i play music since 1978 abd practise instument like sitar gembri or oud(luth oriental)with many1/4 ton...where is referenced this scale list...is it possible to make my personnal scale with1/4 ton,if it don't exist yet ,or perhaps bring it to you to put in the next update...thanks (oriental and indian scales are sometimes very beautiful in electronic songs)musicalement ;) Quote
stryd_one Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 Gday boop,Unfortunately, the scale applies to the whole seq, not per-track. However the good news is that you can always add your own scales - and chances are, I've already converted your scale, as I converted every scale I could get my hands on, especially Eastern/Asian scales (I like them too :) ) The seq firmware is designed to have 128 scales max, but you can always recompile the app with your own scales included. See the Re: MBSEQ V3 talk post with all the scales I converted attached to it, and there's a section down the bottom with the excluded scales. Just swap one of them with one of the included scales, and recompile. If you have a scale which isn't in that file, feel free to send it to me (converted to that format if possible, or I have scripts to do it for you) and I will add your scales to the official source as excluded scales, so that anyone can use them in their own seq, and so that you can use the official source whenever there is an update. :)Cheers! Quote
bugfight Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 looks at first glance like equal temperament is built into the code... Quote
boops Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Posted March 13, 2008 coooooooool...i must build and finish this mb seq!!!! :D i look all the scales ,lot's of india...but no 1/4 tone?why.is it possible without pitch bend?..and i think algerian or arabica are not the reels names of these scales...it's call by example nahawand...or hijaj...(i 've got a rare book which treat of this)but most of them have 1/4 tones..it's their caractheristic sound....bravo for your work...best regards boopslooks at first glance like equal temperament is built into the code... ??? ::)??? i am a french guy.. Quote
stryd_one Posted March 13, 2008 Report Posted March 13, 2008 Microtuning should be supported by the synth, not the sequencer... But I'm sure you could make a simple custom app to send microtuning data to your synths as required :)Feel free to PDF up that book for us :D I'd prefer to use the correct names where possible - thanks for the info! Quote
boops Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Posted March 13, 2008 hi,simple custom app what's this.....? when i will learn to scan some documents(lol )i will send some of these scales...A+ Quote
bugfight Posted March 13, 2008 Report Posted March 13, 2008 ...looks at first glance like equal temperament is built into the code... ??? ::)??? i am a french guy..sorry, equal temperament is notes at 12 equal divisions of each octave.you mentioned 1/4 tones, which (if equal) would be 24 divisions of each octave.hope that helps...on the other hand:Microtuning should be supported by the synth, not the sequencer... a good point, is there a standard mapping or is each synth that supports it using their own? Quote
boops Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Posted March 14, 2008 hi,i am trying to understand exactly your list of scales .... it's writing in semitones, a fews explanations please?i can't see intervals for each scale. thanks"A A# B ;; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Semitone ;; 1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 Minor Tone ;; 1 #1 2 #2 3 4 #4 5 #5 6 #6 7 Augmented Tone ;; 1..10 <------------------> SCALE_ENTRY 0, 2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7, 9, 9, 11, 11, "Major " SCALE_ENTRY 0, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, Quote
stryd_one Posted March 14, 2008 Report Posted March 14, 2008 a good point, is there a standard mapping or is each synth that supports it using their own?It's in the midi spec... If you're anything like me you've considered buying it and never shelled out ;) There's a rundown here: http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtmlboogs:The way it's implemented, is that each of the 12 notes of the octave, is remapped to a scale-correct note. ;; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Semitone ;; 1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 Minor Tone ;; 1 #1 2 #2 3 4 #4 5 #5 6 #6 7 Augmented Tone ;; 1..10 <------------------> SCALE_ENTRY 0, 2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7, 9, 9, 11, 11, "Major So in this case, the first tone (0) is mapped to the major 1st (0) (so it's not changed). The second tone (1) is mapped to the major 2nd (2) so it's shifted up a semitone. The third (2) is mapped to the major 2nd (not changed). The fourth (3) is mapped to the major 4th, so it goes up a semitone.... etc etc. If you are having trouble with it, I'm sure I still have the script for converting intervals to this format.HTH! Quote
boops Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Posted March 14, 2008 hi,very special notations,i have to practice universal harmony language :)...pentatonic major by example 1 2 3 5 6 my first contribution:gamme oriental :maqam bayaty:1 2bb(SEMI TONE +1/4 TONE)3m (minor)4 5 6m 7(MINOR) ON THE BOARD of my oud(luth) it's very simple to modulate each tensions...a + Quote
stryd_one Posted March 14, 2008 Report Posted March 14, 2008 Yeh it's computer notation not musical ;)Remember that there are no 1/4 tones - your synth has to take care of that. So your scale would be : M1,m2,m3,M4,M5,m6,M7 against the table it's: ;; 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Major Tone ;; b2 b3 b5 b6 b7 Minor Tone ;; #1 #2 #4 #5 #6 Augmented Tone ;; M1, m2, m3, M4, M5, m6, M7 Your scale ;; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Semitone SCALE_ENTRY 0, 1, 1, 3, 3, 5, 5, 7, 8, 8, 8, 11, "Your scale" ;DPS, is it easier to understand with that version of the table? Quote
boops Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Posted March 16, 2008 HI,thanks..;YES VERY CLEAR NOW,JUST A SINGLE MISTAKE ;) THE 7 in bayaty is minor (maqam is the word for scale)......then i will begin soon with the help of another midiboxer the seq and the sid...have you and idea for the 1/4 tone? by example in the MBsid ...at this moment, i 've working with nordlead rack 2 and a mc202.; perharps portamento?.i have heard some keyboard with special features "oriental"but i don't know how it's working...a+ Quote
seppoman Posted March 16, 2008 Report Posted March 16, 2008 on some synths (e.g. the good old Korg M1 IIRC) you can set custom scale detunes for each of the twelve notes - I suppose, keyboards marketed as "oriental" have some built in tuning presets matching the cultural region they're targeted for.The problem with a sequencer is that the midi standard doesn't provide means to transfer anything else than the European "Twelve notes, equal temperament". And to be honest, there's probably max 1-2 other Midiboxers who would be interested not only in the "chromatic scale quantize" as it is now but in differently tempered original scales. So the easiest thing would be to use a synth that supports microtuning of scales. Anyway here's another idea:As long as you're using a separate Midi channel for every voice and set every channel of the target synth to e.g. 2 semitones pitch bend range, one could program a method where a pitch bend value is sent before every new note matching the scale you want. It would maybe be possible to modify the seq to do that on its own, but it'd be easier and more flexible to use another core with a little app that does this mapping. should be only a few dozen lines of C code. If you'd want more than one scale, you'd need either a small control surface or a way to select the scale via patch changes.S Quote
boops Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Posted March 16, 2008 hi,thanks for your ideas,i have to think ,how to realize this option.. ??? ??? ???two cores with a possibility of change!!!!!helllllp. :o Quote
boops Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Posted March 17, 2008 ok... ;)it 's seems ,there's no future for 1/4 tones in the mb seqv3!! i will play my good old pitch bends...what's a pity.....this a way to go out classic harmony...best regards. Quote
stryd_one Posted March 20, 2008 Report Posted March 20, 2008 ok... ;)it 's seems ,there's no future for 1/4 tones in the mb seqv3!! Such a thing is not the job of a sequencer... stay with me...The problem with a sequencer is that the midi standard doesn't provide means to transfer anything else than the European "Twelve notes, equal temperament".Well, I know what seppo means here but that's not strictly true either. A midi 'note' is just a number from 0-127. Whatever device receives it, can decide what it wants to do with this number. It could play a note in twelve tone like most synths, or a pecussion instrument or a sample or turn on an LED or flip a relay or move a robot's arm ;)As you've both mentioned, you can use pitchbend to fake the tuning you want, and it works to some extent, but with some synths you will hear this 'cheat', especially older boxes or when you have portamento turned on. Also, it's indeterminate - a certain amount of pitchbend may move the frequency to the desired one in your special tuning, or it may not, depending on the depth of pitchbend on the synth receiving it. It might move the filter cutoff, or alter the amplitude envelope, depending on the patch you play. For these reasons, the pitchbend method is mostly functional, but sometimes not.This is why you should use the tuning standard wherever possible, as it clearly defines the way that the receiver will react to incoming data. If that's not available to you, then as has already been said, you could write a custom midibox app, that will offset certain notes by using pitchbend data. You would want to have a table that stored the offset you want (your custom tuning) in cents, and store the pitchbend range (in cents +/-) of the receiving synth, then it would all be automatic, and you can use both hands to play :) Quote
boops Posted March 24, 2008 Author Report Posted March 24, 2008 hi.stryd one ,thanks a lot...i understand a part of your response ,i will come to talk about that ,at the end of the mbseq built.but before i finish...how to programm my "custom tuning"?two cores?i 'am not enough experimented in this subject,but i am read to learn and progress ,best regards :D...boop's Quote
stryd_one Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 how to programm my "custom tuning"?two cores?Just one will do the trick... It would be a stand-alone device, not related te the seq. (Very) Basically, you want it do do something likeIf incoming note = C#, then output C# and +100 pitchbend.If incoming note = D, then output D and -20 pitchbend.etc etcyou can store the offsets (pitchbend) which should be applied to each note, in a table - so you can store lots of different tunings by having lots of tables.When/if you know some C, you'll see that the above is extremely oversimplified and that the code would be quite different. Quote
DrBunsen Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Just one will do the trick... It would be a stand-alone device, not related te the seq.In other words, a MIDI Filter/Processor Quote
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