Jump to content

Ok, so if I understand this correctly.....


prairieorganguy
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello,

PrairieOrganGuy here.  I am a journeyman organbuilder just beginning to make my way into MIDI.  (It is a lot easier for me to troubleshoot the "for trade" stuff...but the prices are getting so outrageous....)  Anyway, I have two organ keyboards that I wish to MIDIfy to run Hauptwerk.  If I have read everything right, this is the basic parts list:

One core module

Five input modules

Wires, Etc

First, did I get the above right?

Second, do I need to use matrix wiring for these?  Parallel is much simpler to work with (and troubleshoot)  How do I connect the input modules?  Can I just run one wire from each key to an input module?

Am I even asking the right questions?  I have spent several days reading and reading the ucapps site, my head is swimming.  Please be gentle....

PrairieOrganGuy

PS the picture is of an instrument that went from electromechanical to full digital switching.  The parts in the console alone cost around $4,000...there is another board in the attic that also cost about $4000.  Now you know why I am really interested in the MIDIo128...

2973_organ_003_jpg6d6530ce76ffe5ad1ce6d6

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello PrairieOrganGuy - If you have 2 organ keyboards, that will be 64 * 2 = 128 inputs.  Each DIN board accomodates 32 inputs, so you will need four of these not five.  Note also that you can only daisy chain a maximum of four input boards to each core module.  Are you not adding midi to the stop switches or to the pedal board?  I think parallel is the conventional and most straightforward way of achieving what you want, with the core running something like MIDIO128.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello PrairieOrganGuy - If you have 2 organ keyboards, that will be 64 * 2 = 128 inputs.  Each DIN board accomodates 32 inputs, so you will need four of these not five.  Note also that you can only daisy chain a maximum of four input boards to each core module.  Are you not adding midi to the stop switches or to the pedal board?  I think parallel is the conventional and most straightforward way of achieving what you want, with the core running something like MIDIO128.

James

Hello,

The keyboards are not installed in a console at the moment.  They are going to be part of an instrument that will run hauptwerk. (an organ sampler)  It is my hope to be able to use the five contacts under each key to drive several midi arrays sometime in the future.  The keyboards will be built into a unit resembling a large synthesizer.  There will be MIDI cables to another wood box that will contain the computer hardware.  Thank you for your response.  It is a tremendous help to know that I am on the right (if very steep) track.

Drew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again,

I only need one core module at the present time.  However, I am confused about linking two cores together.  Does the first have to be programed in a specific way or can I just forgot about that part for now and simply wire the two together at some time in the future?  I guess, if I need to, I will buy both cores now and just leave the one assembled and blank...

What do I do?

PrairieOrganGuy

Hello,

PrairieOrganGuy here.  I am a journeyman organbuilder just beginning to make my way into MIDI.  (It is a lot easier for me to troubleshoot the "for trade" stuff...but the prices are getting so outrageous....)  Anyway, I have two organ keyboards that I wish to MIDIfy to run Hauptwerk.  If I have read everything right, this is the basic parts list:

One core module

Five input modules

Wires, Etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will have to get Cores programmed with different ID numbers, and then use MB-Link to chain them together... it's not difficult to accomplish.

Use the 'change-id' utility found on this forum, or order your Cores from the vendor with different ID's. 

Then you tie them together via J11 on each Core module and use the "MIDI FP" menu selection on the first core, and "MIDI EP" on the last core in the chain.  My 'MoogModularV Midibox' uses this method without problems. 

Oh, you also remove the OptoIsolator from the second Core... almost forgot that!

good luck,

gb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AFAIK (I haven't had to link to Cores yet) with MIDIIO128 projects you can set one Core to merge its MIDI In to the MIDI Out and just connect the two Cores with a MIDI cable. Easy-peasy. It is useful to get a different ID on the second Core so you can leave the Cores coupled and program one or the other with the same MIDI In from the computer. One of the great strengths of the MidiBox architecture is the ease of reconfiguring it. Just do what you need at the moment, or just something simple as a finger exercise, and then reconfigure as you grow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi OrganGuy, I'd go for

total input modules = number of manuals + pedal board +  MIDI128 (for stops, crescendo pedal, etc...) and

total core modules = total input modules + 1 core modules(for troubleshooting, backup, etc... ) and

a multi port MIDI interface.

This might be expensive compared to a single core transmitting all these into one interface, but will be extremely useful to troubleshoot if one input module / core fails. Personally i prefer SCANROW than SACNMATRIX because it is very simple to wire and cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is this first time I've seen the term "SCANROW" and I found this site that seems to explain it:

http://www.largonet.net/midiboutique/products/whatis/whatis.htm

If I understand it correctly, SCANROW is simply the typical common bus keyboard with parallel inputs into the encoder as is done in the MIDIO128 project.

An alternative is what might be called "wide matrix" which was suggested by Graham Wykes. I am investigating this with Graham. The idea is to use something like an 8x64 matrix that retains the 61 note keyboard bus but allows all the manuals to be multiplexed into one input. At the expense of adding diodes, you save shift registers.

The wiring issues are not inconsequential. I am leaning toward the idea that the wiring may outweigh the MidiBox hardware meaning that ease of wiring should dictate the choice of the MidiBox arrangement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The wiring issues are not inconsequential. I am leaning toward the idea that the wiring may outweigh the MidiBox hardware meaning that ease of wiring should dictate the choice of the MidiBox arrangement.

I've been pursuing my own solution to the wiring issue.  The idea is basically to have carrier board for 32 diodes that connects to the  4 ribbon cables from a DIN board and provides a 34 pin IDC ribbon cable output.  The two extra wires in the ribbon carry the 5V from the DIN board and a single connection from one DOUT pin for the common.  The 34 way cable goes to a small spreader board where the ribbon is plugged in and the board routes to pins to solder connecting wires.  This will allow me to wire a keyboard (for example) to two spreader boards locally and then connect them back to two diode boards (which connect to the two DINs and one commoned DOUT pin for my 64 way row or one DIN and one DOUT pin if you are using 32 wide rows).

I'll make the diode boards stackable (and in pairs) so that the ribbons from the DINS can have multiple connectors and loop from board to board.  The DOUTs can be connected to points on the diode boards as appropriate.

I hope that the end result will be that stops/keyboards etc will have wire bundles locally to the small spreader boards.  The spreader boards (2 per row) will connect with 34 way ribbon cable to the diode boards.  The diode boards will be in a stack, daisy-chained to the DINS with the core and DOUT close by.

If this works, it will mean the major part of the wiring is local bundles to the spreader boards.  Almost everything else is via ribbon cable with connectors.  It should make it easily expandable and also easy to disconnect any section.

You could use exactly the same boards for Midio128 if you wanted to by replacing the diodes with links.

(I'm also learning board layout with Eagle and have first drafts of the artwork done.  The diode boards are 3x4 inches and the spreader boards are less than half that size.  I believe it is easier to work in small, manageable chunks!)

Cheers

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...