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MIDIbox with banks of faders, M S buttons, 5 x Aux sends and 1 pan


madbutnotmad
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Hello 

Just a quick question. as mentioned before. I am new to MidiBox

I have read up a bit on what can be done with the Mackie Control Protocol and read that up to 8 aux sends can be controlled via a MCU compatible control surface.

If this is so, is it possible to make a control surface that has a fader per channel, buttons for solo / mute etc., a pan rotary encoder, and 5 aux sends per channel.

So as to allow control of all these features per track without the need to remap to assign?

Thanks for any help

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Hello

MCU is just a remote, standard protocol use a single encoder row with flip button to assign them to DAW function

The aux(send) count is dependant of DAW.

What I mean is that the protocol (at DAW side) can't handle more than 8 encoder at a time, if you put more you won't gain in direct function in hand as you have to send flip command to access DAW function and this will deactivate encoder that are not assigned to the actual selected function

Maybe with NG you can add conditional and script that automatically flip (it's a midi note) according to your dedicated row (let say "send one" encoder row) where any move of any encoder in this row engage the whole row (8 encoder)

But what will happen if you move two encoder in two different row at the same time...probably lag and overflow as you'll send continuous flip function...

Best

Zam

 

 

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Hello Zam

thanks for your reply and sure i understand. I wonder if the speed of the transmission is quick enough so that the lag isn't that perceivable? and so that it isn't too glitchy.

I see that there are a few people who have made Midibox's over the years that emulate mixing consoles. perhaps some of them have more than one Aux per channel.

 

I was thinking that if the aux's on each channel, were given different midi channels, then this would cause less problems?

 

I see there are one or two generic control surfaces (or mixers with built in DAW control) on the market that incorporates a number of Potentiometers 

into their design, some which allow more than one encoder per channel.

the Akai Midimix is one example. Which is great. although appears to be designed to be used primarily with Ableton Live.

Not sure if it can be used in the same way with other DAWs.

https://www.akaipro.com/midimix

 

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https://novationmusic.com/launch/launch-control-xl

Novation Launch Control XL, another good example of a generic controller of this type.

Although which appears to be more integrated than the Akai.

Interestingly enough, on Novation's site, i read that the Novation Launch Control XL uses Focusrite HUI protocol

which is used by a analogue/hybrid mixing design and control surface in one compact console

looks very useful, their HUI is likely a closed format like the Avid protocol that goes with their control surfaces.

 

 

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Also, just one observation with regards to rotary encoders

no matter how many you have on a control surface

a single human can usually only rotate two at the most skilfully any one time

with faders being more easy to move in numbers

due to the speed of the clock that embedded systems run at

even if several were to be moved and there is some lag

the lag often isn't that perceivable 

although please note i am not experienced with MIDIbox 

so I can not say from experience 

 

 

 

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Hello

HUI is not a closed protocol, it's midi, with unusual data structure

In "standard" midi mode you can do whatever you want, but with MCU you have protocol priority and task specification

the limit is not the midi, but the way Mackie implement it as an universal DAW mixer remote which is followed by all DAW dev.

Another limit in you usecase is data feedback, the MCU Lcd update data according to flip condition

If your encoder are PAN mode LCD show PAN value if you flip in SEND Lcd show send value etc...

If you put 32 encoders (8 pan, 8 send ....) you won't be able to print 32 different value type, whatever you have room for it in a big LCD, or again with heavy config trick at .NGC .NGR like banking LCD lines updating the good one, but then you'll have issue if you update data from DAW, DAW will only send fedback data valu of the actual flip status.

In short, in encoder pan mod the DAW won't update SEND data value (moved at DAW) until you flip (and call for data value update) at MCU hardware...

Best

Zam

 

 

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Hi Zan. Thanks for the info.

I was wondering however if one could get around these problems by not using LCDs

but using LED Rings for absolute encoders instead to give visual feedback

and keep it in update mode? or does the update only happen with a specific action?

and using motorised faders?

Thanks for help otherwise

I also see that SSL manufacture a nice small control surface, although fairly expensive 

(but not really when compared to other SSL hardware...., which is getting a great deal cheaper as time goes on)

Still out my budget.... 

and although well designed, still not exactly what i want...

https://www.solidstatelogic.com/studio/nucleus2

 

 

 

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On 21/06/2019 at 10:05 PM, Zam said:

Hello

MCU is just a remote, standard protocol use a single encoder row with flip button to assign them to DAW function

The aux(send) count is dependant of DAW.

What I mean is that the protocol (at DAW side) can't handle more than 8 encoder at a time, if you put more you won't gain in direct function in hand as you have to send flip command to access DAW function and this will deactivate encoder that are not assigned to the actual selected function

Maybe with NG you can add conditional and script that automatically flip (it's a midi note) according to your dedicated row (let say "send one" encoder row) where any move of any encoder in this row engage the whole row (8 encoder)

But what will happen if you move two encoder in two different row at the same time...probably lag and overflow as you'll send continuous flip function...

Best

Zam

 

Quote

Hello again. Thinking again on this task. I wonder if anyone had tried by creating a midibox that has the normal amount of rotary encoders, i.e. 8. one per channel.

Then increasing one row at a time. And using methods of multiplexing combined with code. to send the info to the DAW, and at the same time receiving.

Or perhaps one midibox to send data to the in and a separate one to receive on the same board.

Still i am on the early stages of learning. I note however that the Novation Launch control xl with a DAW other than Ableton live (which it is designed to work out of the box with).

 

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Edited by madbutnotmad
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