Combined Core & SID

[Lall]

Hi all,

Xanboroon and myself are planning to build some Quad-SID and sequencer. We have received our SID chips and are now starting to think about practical details.

As we plan to build 3 Quad-SID in total, that makes a total of 12 Core and 12 SID PCBs which is quite a lot I must say.

To reduce that number, we thought about combining the Core and SID on one single board. This would apply for the slave cores on which a lot of connectors, parts, ... can be removed. We would then have 1 Core, 1 SID and 3 combined Core+SID.

Before starting playing with Eagle for hours, I just wanted to check whether someone would have already done that or not. Re-use is the best thing on earth, isn't it?  ;)

If it's not available yet, then we'll make it available when it will be tested of course.

Best regards,

Lall

[Phattline]

Yea I had yesterday a simular idea becouse my led matrix dont work-

so I want to minimize my design

So the whole Parts are in a groovebox size box

I will make a Controll Panell with eagle

with integratet Dinx4´s and Doutx4´s

on board this board should stuffed with rotary encs

with integratet switches - to save room

Planned all on two Board´s 1.Controll 2.Core-Sid with one Powersupply for all on board -(not Traffo)

When I have my Controll Board finished I will give it into forum! and then I would redesign yours - for my Quad Sid.

But first I must find a crack for eagle light  ;D

The full is to expensive :'(

[Wilba]

I initially designed my quad-SID PCBs with this idea (4x combined CORE/SID PCB) but then realised it would ultimately be easier and more flexible to just make smaller/optimised SID and CORE module PCBs.

(ALSO, I didn't know how to route the power and audio tracks to minimise noise, and wanted to support new features when they come... that's why I and others also gave up on the "single-PCB Quad-SID" plan.)

Being able to swap SID boards in your setup and even swapping ports/pins used for CORE->SID comms... these are great benefits when you need to debug why it doesn't work! It's also easier to do application uploads when you can just stuff the optocoupler into a slave CORE and connect the MIDI In cable to it.

My opinion is that the modular design is best. Don't view it as "so many PCBs"... in surface area it's not that much different... but your plan involves three PCB designs instead of just using/reusing two PCB designs. That's usually cheaper to make too, if you get someone to make them for you (check out www.futurlec.com) - ie. you save on the per-design overhead more than the very minor reduction in PCB area.

Re-use is the best thing on earth, isn't it?

Re-use TK's brilliant modular design!

[arumblack]

I too have been thinking this over, but you can't do it in eagle lite, it would exceed the possible size. I don't support software piracy, and would recomend that no one else should either, it is theft. at least don't talk about it on an open forum. you do know you can get a non profit liscense for eagle, right? it's not free, and may not be your definition of cheap either( heck, i can't afford it right now either), but i guess it's a fair price.

I agree that a core sid board would be a more useful idea, maybe not better. Doing it this way anyone who wanted to make a sid could use the board, wether you want 1 sid or the full 4 or 2 or 3. You could do 2 variants, one for the master, and one for theslaves, which would really be the same as the master , minus some parts, so it wouldn't be much more work.

parts you could leave of on the slave include, all unused connections(din's dout's ain's aout's, lcd, bankstick...), the stuff for the lcd backlighting,and whatever parts of the powersupply you can leave out( this would be dependant on needing the optimized ps solution). probably other things too, but it is early here (for me atleast)....

if someone does this before me, i'd be glad to proof the design as best i can.

[Jack]

I have a full version of Eagle at Work.  

And I started to create a Quadsid Core and Controll Surface. At the moment I have only place all parts on board.

PS:For everyone who wants, I can send a not routet *.brd.

wfg

Jack

[Lall]

Hi all,

Very interesting discussion... let me react on some points.

The idea is not to redesign three boards but actually "only" one. Indeed, the master core will remain as it is and the master SID too. Only one slave core and one SID will be merged into one board. As a result, we would have 1 standard core PCB, 1 standard SID PCB and 3 Core+SID PCBs.

Wilba, your point about updates is a very good one. To a certain extent, this structure ensures that we can benefit from HW updates which I hope will mainly affect the main core and of course from software updates.

This should also allow people to add as many combined boards as they need therefore keeping some modularity.

The reasons why we are thinking about it is:

- less fixing as there will be less boards so less mechanical "problems"

- less cables between boards as the combined ones will only need MIDI and power.

- less PCB space but that's not really the main goal for us

- less PCBs to etch as I'm considering doing it myself.

Finally, when I look at the Core and at the SID and when I look at what can be removed if we go for a combination, I believe we have good chances of having it fit on a half euro size. Therefore, the eagle light version should be OK which is a must as Arumblack mentions. An argument in favor is also that the redesign of the PCB is actually about removing some parts and copy/pasting the SID onto the core so the work should remain limited.

We'll still think about it for a while and give more news later on. I may still give a try to this combined board to check if this makes sense from PCB point of view at all.

Best regards,

Lall

[Phattline]

Hey Jack send it, you already finsihed something simular like this? Nice! ;D

Sorry for this piiiraty question - eagle and so on I dont will sa c y r i a t ck no more :-X

But with a half euroo pcb i´m not come very  fare

when I want to build a controll surfaice like step c

I have built a step c controll- allot of timee 4- days

many wires - too much wires -noise and so on

the front designn </a> is also not so good - no problem, but I use A plexi glass Front plate- and mechanic stability would also be nice

- with 2 Pcb´s it would be solved-  

So - I Will by eagle version with bigger pcb functions

And with the eagle light everbody can print it out - not customize but print - also good - or?

By Phattline

[arumblack]

as far as i know, i seem to remember reading it anyway, eagle lite can view and print any size file.

Jack, lets see the .brd!! maybe you have saved us all some work!( in which case i send a big thanks!)

[Phattline]

Jack- yea man - cool stuff this saves alot of time -

I will remove all unused stuff, and so on.

But I have a little problem with my Eagle  I cant

Move a whole circuit- means mark a circuit and move it on a other place - I dont found something in eagle - or with witch function this can by realized- mark all doesent exist- how do you copy a whole curciut.

[d2k]

Use the select (box made outta dashes) tool to select all the shit u need to move, then right click the whole selection to move...

[arumblack]

Jack: got the files, thanks! I'll see what i can do with them.