Mackie LC clone with cubase sx

December 4, 2002

Whaou.....

All that has been said about the LC emulation is terific !

I was waiting the Midibox NG to build a MB. All seems to be perfect but you speak a lot of emagic logic and not enough about cubase.

I'm planning to build a clone of the Mackie LC based on the LC emulation of your MBox NG.

I saw that the LC controller is fully compatible with the new Cubase. So I would like to build a LC Clone with 16 tracks: That means : 16 motorfaders 16 encoders above them and the select, mute, solo butons to go with it .

Is it possible????

Many friends are interested in this clone .So I speak in the name of all of them. I think it will be the ultimate mixing desk for software. We are really looking forward to your answer because it's an exciting project which could help us a lot in our work and in a professional use in recording studio.

Best regards.

December 4, 2002

Whaou.....

All that has been said about the LC emulation is terific !

I was waiting the Midibox NG to build a MB. All seems to be perfect but you speak a lot of emagic logic and not enough about cubase.

I'm planning to build a clone of the Mackie LC based on the LC emulation of your MBox NG.

I saw that the LC controller is fully compatible with the new Cubase. So I would like to build a LC Clone with 16 tracks: That means : 16 motorfaders 16 encoders above them and the select, mute, solo butons to go with it .

Is it possible????

Many friends are interested in this clone .So I speak in the name of all of them. I think it will be the ultimate mixing desk for software. We are really looking forward to your answer because it's an exciting project which could help us a lot in our work and in a professional use in recording studio.

Best regards.

TK. · December 5, 2002

Hi,

you don't have to wait for MIDIbox NG, since the preliminary releases of MB16E and MBMF can already handle with the complete Mackie HUI protocol :) In difference to the features which were already provided by the MIDIboxes, the LC emulation requires only a subset of them - the motorfaders just need to be moved on Pitchbender events, they must send Pitch Bender events, the V-pots must send the ticks based on a special formula, the LED-Rings react on different MIDI events, the buttons need to send Note events, the LEDs must react on Note events, the display must be accessible by the host software. Ok, and there is a special password sequence which was new to me. However, just another variant ;-) The intelligence is not in the MIDI controller, but in the host software...

16 Tracks are possible, but the protocol supports only 8 tracks per MIDI line. So, two MIDI In/Out pairs and 4 core modules are required.

Cubase: is there somebody out there who wants to help me to determine if Cubase SX can already handle with the same protocol which is used by Logic Control? I don't own Cubase (and I don't want to see any cracked version in my Mailbox!!!) therefore I cannot test it.

I need to know:

is the Mackie Control driver already included in the official Cubase SX release?
does this driver send any request over the MIDI lines during startup? Or is there a way to send a request manually? For LC, the request is "F0 00 00 66 10 F7" - do you see something similar? If you don't own an external MIDI monitor, you can track these requests by using MIDI-Ox in conjunction with MIDI-Yoke (a virtual MIDI device)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

TK. · December 5, 2002

Hi,

you don't have to wait for MIDIbox NG, since the preliminary releases of MB16E and MBMF can already handle with the complete Mackie HUI protocol :) In difference to the features which were already provided by the MIDIboxes, the LC emulation requires only a subset of them - the motorfaders just need to be moved on Pitchbender events, they must send Pitch Bender events, the V-pots must send the ticks based on a special formula, the LED-Rings react on different MIDI events, the buttons need to send Note events, the LEDs must react on Note events, the display must be accessible by the host software. Ok, and there is a special password sequence which was new to me. However, just another variant ;-) The intelligence is not in the MIDI controller, but in the host software...

16 Tracks are possible, but the protocol supports only 8 tracks per MIDI line. So, two MIDI In/Out pairs and 4 core modules are required.

Cubase: is there somebody out there who wants to help me to determine if Cubase SX can already handle with the same protocol which is used by Logic Control? I don't own Cubase (and I don't want to see any cracked version in my Mailbox!!!) therefore I cannot test it.

I need to know:

is the Mackie Control driver already included in the official Cubase SX release?
does this driver send any request over the MIDI lines during startup? Or is there a way to send a request manually? For LC, the request is "F0 00 00 66 10 F7" - do you see something similar? If you don't own an external MIDI monitor, you can track these requests by using MIDI-Ox in conjunction with MIDI-Yoke (a virtual MIDI device)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

December 5, 2002

Thank you for your tips thorsten;

I own the previous version of cubase : the 5.1 version and I think it does not support the mackie controller but I'm not sure. Maybe there will be an add-on to support it.

But I remind that There may be the HUI Mackie control driver. So I will Try with midi-ox to see if there's a special startup request like you said.

I will say what I'll Find This WE.

Damien

December 5, 2002

Thank you for your tips thorsten;

I own the previous version of cubase : the 5.1 version and I think it does not support the mackie controller but I'm not sure. Maybe there will be an add-on to support it.

But I remind that There may be the HUI Mackie control driver. So I will Try with midi-ox to see if there's a special startup request like you said.

I will say what I'll Find This WE.

Damien

Frank · December 5, 2002

Hi Thorsten,

OK i've tested the preliminary version of MBMF LC emulation with Cubase SX 1.05.

I'm using the Mackie Control profile in Cubase SX, so the LC Emulation id should be set to "20".

When Cubase is started up after awhile the MBMF lcd display changes to :-

"Preparing Connection" - lcd top line

"Cubase SX Version xxx" - lcd bottom line

Cubase will settle into normal behavior but the MBMF displays stays the same as above, i guess cubase is waiting for handshake from MBMF.

But the motor faders are working with cubase.

Here is midi-ox data of cubase startup :-

TIMESTAMP PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT

00012974 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 00 50 72 65 70 61 72 69 6E 67 20 43

SYSX: 6F 6E 6E 65 63 74 69 6F 6E 2E 2E 2E 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

00012989 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 38 43 75 62 61 73 65 20 53 58 20 2D

SYSX: 20 56 65 72 73 69 6F 6E 20 31 2E 30 2E 35 2E 35 38 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

0001299D 1 F0 Buffer: 8 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 1A 00 F7

000129A0 1 E8 00 65 9 -- Pitch Bend

000129A0 1 90 32 00 1 D 3 Note Off

000129A1 1 90 4F 7F 1 G 5 Note On

000129A2 1 90 52 00 1 Bb5 Note Off

000129A3 1 90 56 00 1 D 6 Note Off

000129A4 1 90 57 00 1 Eb6 Note Off

000129A5 1 90 5B 00 1 G 6 Note Off

000129A6 1 90 5C 00 1 G#6 Note Off

000129A7 1 90 5D 7F 1 A 6 Note On

000129A8 1 90 5E 00 1 Bb6 Note Off

000129A9 1 90 5F 00 1 B 6 Note Off

000129AA 1 90 71 00 1 F 8 Note Off

000129AB 1 90 72 7F 1 F#8 Note On

000129AC 1 90 73 00 1 G 8 Note Off

000129B1 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 50 61 6E 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 6E 20 4C 65 66 74

SYSX: 2D 52 69 67 68 74 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61

SYSX: 67 65 3A 30 31 2F 30 32 F7

000129C5 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 38 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

000129D9 1 BF 40 30 16 -- CC: Pedal (Sustain)

000129DB 1 BF 41 30 16 -- CC: Portamento

000129DB 1 BF 42 30 16 -- CC: Sostenuto-Thumby

000129DC 1 BF 43 71 16 -- CC: Pedal-Soft

000129DD 1 BF 44 30 16 -- Control Change

000129DE 1 BF 45 71 16 -- CC: Hold 2

000129DF 1 BF 46 30 16 -- Control Change

000129E0 1 BF 47 71 16 -- CC: Harmonic Content

000129E1 1 BF 48 30 16 -- CC: Release Time

000129E2 1 BF 49 30 16 -- CC: Attack Time

Thanks for the great engineering,

Frank

Frank · December 5, 2002

Hi Thorsten,

OK i've tested the preliminary version of MBMF LC emulation with Cubase SX 1.05.

I'm using the Mackie Control profile in Cubase SX, so the LC Emulation id should be set to "20".

When Cubase is started up after awhile the MBMF lcd display changes to :-

"Preparing Connection" - lcd top line

"Cubase SX Version xxx" - lcd bottom line

Cubase will settle into normal behavior but the MBMF displays stays the same as above, i guess cubase is waiting for handshake from MBMF.

But the motor faders are working with cubase.

Here is midi-ox data of cubase startup :-

TIMESTAMP PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT

00012974 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 00 50 72 65 70 61 72 69 6E 67 20 43

SYSX: 6F 6E 6E 65 63 74 69 6F 6E 2E 2E 2E 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

00012989 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 38 43 75 62 61 73 65 20 53 58 20 2D

SYSX: 20 56 65 72 73 69 6F 6E 20 31 2E 30 2E 35 2E 35 38 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

0001299D 1 F0 Buffer: 8 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 1A 00 F7

000129A0 1 E8 00 65 9 -- Pitch Bend

000129A0 1 90 32 00 1 D 3 Note Off

000129A1 1 90 4F 7F 1 G 5 Note On

000129A2 1 90 52 00 1 Bb5 Note Off

000129A3 1 90 56 00 1 D 6 Note Off

000129A4 1 90 57 00 1 Eb6 Note Off

000129A5 1 90 5B 00 1 G 6 Note Off

000129A6 1 90 5C 00 1 G#6 Note Off

000129A7 1 90 5D 7F 1 A 6 Note On

000129A8 1 90 5E 00 1 Bb6 Note Off

000129A9 1 90 5F 00 1 B 6 Note Off

000129AA 1 90 71 00 1 F 8 Note Off

000129AB 1 90 72 7F 1 F#8 Note On

000129AC 1 90 73 00 1 G 8 Note Off

000129B1 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 50 61 6E 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 6E 20 4C 65 66 74

SYSX: 2D 52 69 67 68 74 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61

SYSX: 67 65 3A 30 31 2F 30 32 F7

000129C5 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive

SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 38 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

000129D9 1 BF 40 30 16 -- CC: Pedal (Sustain)

000129DB 1 BF 41 30 16 -- CC: Portamento

000129DB 1 BF 42 30 16 -- CC: Sostenuto-Thumby

000129DC 1 BF 43 71 16 -- CC: Pedal-Soft

000129DD 1 BF 44 30 16 -- Control Change

000129DE 1 BF 45 71 16 -- CC: Hold 2

000129DF 1 BF 46 30 16 -- Control Change

000129E0 1 BF 47 71 16 -- CC: Harmonic Content

000129E1 1 BF 48 30 16 -- CC: Release Time

000129E2 1 BF 49 30 16 -- CC: Attack Time

Thanks for the great engineering,

Frank

December 5, 2002

Nice !

Frank has been faster than me !

So, the MBLC clone seems to work with cubase , it's a nice thing.

Great news :)

December 5, 2002

Nice !

Frank has been faster than me !

So, the MBLC clone seems to work with cubase , it's a nice thing.

Great news :)

TK. · December 6, 2002

Great Frank! :)

It seems that Cubase sends the message strings with two different device identifiers - or did you change the ID during the run?

The first string goes to device 2F and includes

Preparing Connection Cubase SX - Version 1.0.5.58

The second string goes to device 14 and includes

Pan                  Pan Left-Right          Page:01/02

How does Cubase react with LCEMU_ID 14 or 2F?

If the message handling under Cubase is the only imperfection, I will add an option which allows to display string which are going to any Mackie device

What's about the button function, do they work?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

TK. · December 6, 2002

Great Frank! :)

It seems that Cubase sends the message strings with two different device identifiers - or did you change the ID during the run?

The first string goes to device 2F and includes

Preparing Connection Cubase SX - Version 1.0.5.58

The second string goes to device 14 and includes

Pan                  Pan Left-Right          Page:01/02

How does Cubase react with LCEMU_ID 14 or 2F?

If the message handling under Cubase is the only imperfection, I will add an option which allows to display string which are going to any Mackie device

What's about the button function, do they work?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Frank · December 7, 2002

Hi Thorsten,

Good news for Cubase SX and Nuendo users, i think the emulation is working.

Set the LCEMU id to "14" and use the Mackie Control profile in Cubase and it will work. I tried id "2F"but it does nothing.

I'm using a 16x2 display so i cant see much but the display is responding to Cubase. If i change the channel name in cubase the display will also update.

Buttons are working. I've only tested afew so far, here is the list:-

1. Fader select works

2. Mute, Solo and transport works.

3. Bank left, Bank right, Channel left & channel right also works.

Only problem is button and led behaviour is not correct.

Example: Solo uses note on/note off. If i press solo on in cubase screen mixer, led in MBMF comes on and stays on which is correct. If i press solo off in onscreen mixer MBMF led goes off, also correct.

This is the behaviour of leds in MBMF if triggered from MBMF buttons: -

1.button@toggle

first push - mbmf led on/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led off/onscreen led still on

third push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off

2.button@OnOnly

first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led nothing/onscreen led off

3.button@OnOff

first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off

I think the @toggle function is correct but it should take only 2 pushes as in: 1st push send note on

2nd push send note off

Regarding the Lcd display problem, is it possible to use 40x2 display but with special handling to reduce characters for each channel to 5, (8x5=40) but only 4 displayed the fifth is a space. I think it would still be useful as in bass, syn=synthe, snr=snare, lvox= lead vox etc. I hope i'm not sounding stupid :-)

hope the info is of help to you.

Peace

Frank

Frank · December 7, 2002

Hi Thorsten,

Good news for Cubase SX and Nuendo users, i think the emulation is working.

Set the LCEMU id to "14" and use the Mackie Control profile in Cubase and it will work. I tried id "2F"but it does nothing.

I'm using a 16x2 display so i cant see much but the display is responding to Cubase. If i change the channel name in cubase the display will also update.

Buttons are working. I've only tested afew so far, here is the list:-

1. Fader select works

2. Mute, Solo and transport works.

3. Bank left, Bank right, Channel left & channel right also works.

Only problem is button and led behaviour is not correct.

Example: Solo uses note on/note off. If i press solo on in cubase screen mixer, led in MBMF comes on and stays on which is correct. If i press solo off in onscreen mixer MBMF led goes off, also correct.

This is the behaviour of leds in MBMF if triggered from MBMF buttons: -

1.button@toggle

first push - mbmf led on/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led off/onscreen led still on

third push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off

2.button@OnOnly

first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led nothing/onscreen led off

3.button@OnOff

first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on

second push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off

I think the @toggle function is correct but it should take only 2 pushes as in: 1st push send note on

2nd push send note off

Regarding the Lcd display problem, is it possible to use 40x2 display but with special handling to reduce characters for each channel to 5, (8x5=40) but only 4 displayed the fifth is a space. I think it would still be useful as in bass, syn=synthe, snr=snare, lvox= lead vox etc. I hope i'm not sounding stupid :-)

hope the info is of help to you.

Peace

Frank

TK. · December 8, 2002

Hi Frank,

today (ooops - yesterday) I built a nice 32 LED/Button module which allows me to play with the LC emulation more ergonomically:

I finally noticed the same strange behaviour and found a way to fix it. With the new release, it is possible to map the LED shift registers to different functions, so that you can decide if the LEDs should only be controlled by the button handler, or only from the host application via MIDI.

Remark: all buttons should be in On/Off mode, Logic/Cubase handle the toggle function by itself, and sometimes the LEDs flash on special events. I.e., the mute LEDs are flashing in solo mode)

LCD display: I will try it next week. It makes sense to support both solution: a cheap & dirty 40x2 LCD driver, and a graphic display solution (which also isn't perfect but still cheaper when a dedicated 55x2 LCD)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

TK. · December 8, 2002

Hi Frank,

today (ooops - yesterday) I built a nice 32 LED/Button module which allows me to play with the LC emulation more ergonomically:

I finally noticed the same strange behaviour and found a way to fix it. With the new release, it is possible to map the LED shift registers to different functions, so that you can decide if the LEDs should only be controlled by the button handler, or only from the host application via MIDI.

Remark: all buttons should be in On/Off mode, Logic/Cubase handle the toggle function by itself, and sometimes the LEDs flash on special events. I.e., the mute LEDs are flashing in solo mode)

LCD display: I will try it next week. It makes sense to support both solution: a cheap & dirty 40x2 LCD driver, and a graphic display solution (which also isn't perfect but still cheaper when a dedicated 55x2 LCD)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

December 8, 2002

Great Work Frank,

Thank you a lot for your all what you do!

Best regards to you and thorsten

December 8, 2002

Great Work Frank,

Thank you a lot for your all what you do!

Best regards to you and thorsten

Frank · December 8, 2002

You're welcome Damien, the pleasure is all mine :-).

I enjoy Thorsten's projects very much and its the least i could do to support his untiring efforts for this community.

Peace

Frank

Frank · December 8, 2002

You're welcome Damien, the pleasure is all mine :-).

I enjoy Thorsten's projects very much and its the least i could do to support his untiring efforts for this community.

Peace

Frank

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Mackie LC clone with cubase sx

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