Guest damien Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Whaou.....All that has been said about the LC emulation is terific !I was waiting the Midibox NG to build a MB. All seems to be perfect but you speak a lot of emagic logic and not enough about cubase.I'm planning to build a clone of the Mackie LC based on the LC emulation of your MBox NG.I saw that the LC controller is fully compatible with the new Cubase. So I would like to build a LC Clone with 16 tracks: That means : 16 motorfaders 16 encoders above them and the select, mute, solo butons to go with it . Is it possible????Many friends are interested in this clone .So I speak in the name of all of them. I think it will be the ultimate mixing desk for software. We are really looking forward to your answer because it's an exciting project which could help us a lot in our work and in a professional use in recording studio.Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Whaou.....All that has been said about the LC emulation is terific !I was waiting the Midibox NG to build a MB. All seems to be perfect but you speak a lot of emagic logic and not enough about cubase.I'm planning to build a clone of the Mackie LC based on the LC emulation of your MBox NG.I saw that the LC controller is fully compatible with the new Cubase. So I would like to build a LC Clone with 16 tracks: That means : 16 motorfaders 16 encoders above them and the select, mute, solo butons to go with it . Is it possible????Many friends are interested in this clone .So I speak in the name of all of them. I think it will be the ultimate mixing desk for software. We are really looking forward to your answer because it's an exciting project which could help us a lot in our work and in a professional use in recording studio.Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Hi,you don't have to wait for MIDIbox NG, since the preliminary releases of MB16E and MBMF can already handle with the complete Mackie HUI protocol :) In difference to the features which were already provided by the MIDIboxes, the LC emulation requires only a subset of them - the motorfaders just need to be moved on Pitchbender events, they must send Pitch Bender events, the V-pots must send the ticks based on a special formula, the LED-Rings react on different MIDI events, the buttons need to send Note events, the LEDs must react on Note events, the display must be accessible by the host software. Ok, and there is a special password sequence which was new to me. However, just another variant ;-) The intelligence is not in the MIDI controller, but in the host software...16 Tracks are possible, but the protocol supports only 8 tracks per MIDI line. So, two MIDI In/Out pairs and 4 core modules are required.Cubase: is there somebody out there who wants to help me to determine if Cubase SX can already handle with the same protocol which is used by Logic Control? I don't own Cubase (and I don't want to see any cracked version in my Mailbox!!!) therefore I cannot test it.I need to know:is the Mackie Control driver already included in the official Cubase SX release?does this driver send any request over the MIDI lines during startup? Or is there a way to send a request manually? For LC, the request is "F0 00 00 66 10 F7" - do you see something similar? If you don't own an external MIDI monitor, you can track these requests by using MIDI-Ox in conjunction with MIDI-Yoke (a virtual MIDI device)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Hi,you don't have to wait for MIDIbox NG, since the preliminary releases of MB16E and MBMF can already handle with the complete Mackie HUI protocol :) In difference to the features which were already provided by the MIDIboxes, the LC emulation requires only a subset of them - the motorfaders just need to be moved on Pitchbender events, they must send Pitch Bender events, the V-pots must send the ticks based on a special formula, the LED-Rings react on different MIDI events, the buttons need to send Note events, the LEDs must react on Note events, the display must be accessible by the host software. Ok, and there is a special password sequence which was new to me. However, just another variant ;-) The intelligence is not in the MIDI controller, but in the host software...16 Tracks are possible, but the protocol supports only 8 tracks per MIDI line. So, two MIDI In/Out pairs and 4 core modules are required.Cubase: is there somebody out there who wants to help me to determine if Cubase SX can already handle with the same protocol which is used by Logic Control? I don't own Cubase (and I don't want to see any cracked version in my Mailbox!!!) therefore I cannot test it.I need to know:is the Mackie Control driver already included in the official Cubase SX release?does this driver send any request over the MIDI lines during startup? Or is there a way to send a request manually? For LC, the request is "F0 00 00 66 10 F7" - do you see something similar? If you don't own an external MIDI monitor, you can track these requests by using MIDI-Ox in conjunction with MIDI-Yoke (a virtual MIDI device)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Thank you for your tips thorsten; I own the previous version of cubase : the 5.1 version and I think it does not support the mackie controller but I'm not sure. Maybe there will be an add-on to support it.But I remind that There may be the HUI Mackie control driver. So I will Try with midi-ox to see if there's a special startup request like you said.I will say what I'll Find This WE.Damien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Thank you for your tips thorsten; I own the previous version of cubase : the 5.1 version and I think it does not support the mackie controller but I'm not sure. Maybe there will be an add-on to support it.But I remind that There may be the HUI Mackie control driver. So I will Try with midi-ox to see if there's a special startup request like you said.I will say what I'll Find This WE.Damien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Hi Thorsten,OK i've tested the preliminary version of MBMF LC emulation with Cubase SX 1.05.I'm using the Mackie Control profile in Cubase SX, so the LC Emulation id should be set to "20".When Cubase is started up after awhile the MBMF lcd display changes to :- "Preparing Connection" - lcd top line "Cubase SX Version xxx" - lcd bottom lineCubase will settle into normal behavior but the MBMF displays stays the same as above, i guess cubase is waiting for handshake from MBMF.But the motor faders are working with cubase.Here is midi-ox data of cubase startup :- TIMESTAMP PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 00012974 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 00 50 72 65 70 61 72 69 6E 67 20 43 SYSX: 6F 6E 6E 65 63 74 69 6F 6E 2E 2E 2E 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 00012989 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 38 43 75 62 61 73 65 20 53 58 20 2D SYSX: 20 56 65 72 73 69 6F 6E 20 31 2E 30 2E 35 2E 35 38 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 0001299D 1 F0 Buffer: 8 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 1A 00 F7 000129A0 1 E8 00 65 9 -- Pitch Bend 000129A0 1 90 32 00 1 D 3 Note Off 000129A1 1 90 4F 7F 1 G 5 Note On 000129A2 1 90 52 00 1 Bb5 Note Off 000129A3 1 90 56 00 1 D 6 Note Off 000129A4 1 90 57 00 1 Eb6 Note Off 000129A5 1 90 5B 00 1 G 6 Note Off 000129A6 1 90 5C 00 1 G#6 Note Off 000129A7 1 90 5D 7F 1 A 6 Note On 000129A8 1 90 5E 00 1 Bb6 Note Off 000129A9 1 90 5F 00 1 B 6 Note Off 000129AA 1 90 71 00 1 F 8 Note Off 000129AB 1 90 72 7F 1 F#8 Note On 000129AC 1 90 73 00 1 G 8 Note Off 000129B1 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 50 61 6E 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 6E 20 4C 65 66 74 SYSX: 2D 52 69 67 68 74 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 SYSX: 67 65 3A 30 31 2F 30 32 F7 000129C5 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 38 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 000129D9 1 BF 40 30 16 -- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 000129DB 1 BF 41 30 16 -- CC: Portamento 000129DB 1 BF 42 30 16 -- CC: Sostenuto-Thumby 000129DC 1 BF 43 71 16 -- CC: Pedal-Soft 000129DD 1 BF 44 30 16 -- Control Change 000129DE 1 BF 45 71 16 -- CC: Hold 2 000129DF 1 BF 46 30 16 -- Control Change 000129E0 1 BF 47 71 16 -- CC: Harmonic Content 000129E1 1 BF 48 30 16 -- CC: Release Time 000129E2 1 BF 49 30 16 -- CC: Attack Time Thanks for the great engineering,Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Hi Thorsten,OK i've tested the preliminary version of MBMF LC emulation with Cubase SX 1.05.I'm using the Mackie Control profile in Cubase SX, so the LC Emulation id should be set to "20".When Cubase is started up after awhile the MBMF lcd display changes to :- "Preparing Connection" - lcd top line "Cubase SX Version xxx" - lcd bottom lineCubase will settle into normal behavior but the MBMF displays stays the same as above, i guess cubase is waiting for handshake from MBMF.But the motor faders are working with cubase.Here is midi-ox data of cubase startup :- TIMESTAMP PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 00012974 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 00 50 72 65 70 61 72 69 6E 67 20 43 SYSX: 6F 6E 6E 65 63 74 69 6F 6E 2E 2E 2E 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 00012989 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 2F 12 38 43 75 62 61 73 65 20 53 58 20 2D SYSX: 20 56 65 72 73 69 6F 6E 20 31 2E 30 2E 35 2E 35 38 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 0001299D 1 F0 Buffer: 8 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 1A 00 F7 000129A0 1 E8 00 65 9 -- Pitch Bend 000129A0 1 90 32 00 1 D 3 Note Off 000129A1 1 90 4F 7F 1 G 5 Note On 000129A2 1 90 52 00 1 Bb5 Note Off 000129A3 1 90 56 00 1 D 6 Note Off 000129A4 1 90 57 00 1 Eb6 Note Off 000129A5 1 90 5B 00 1 G 6 Note Off 000129A6 1 90 5C 00 1 G#6 Note Off 000129A7 1 90 5D 7F 1 A 6 Note On 000129A8 1 90 5E 00 1 Bb6 Note Off 000129A9 1 90 5F 00 1 B 6 Note Off 000129AA 1 90 71 00 1 F 8 Note Off 000129AB 1 90 72 7F 1 F#8 Note On 000129AC 1 90 73 00 1 G 8 Note Off 000129B1 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 50 61 6E 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 6E 20 4C 65 66 74 SYSX: 2D 52 69 67 68 74 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 61 SYSX: 67 65 3A 30 31 2F 30 32 F7 000129C5 1 F0 Buffer: 63 Bytes System Exclusive SYSX: F0 00 00 66 14 12 38 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 SYSX: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7 000129D9 1 BF 40 30 16 -- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 000129DB 1 BF 41 30 16 -- CC: Portamento 000129DB 1 BF 42 30 16 -- CC: Sostenuto-Thumby 000129DC 1 BF 43 71 16 -- CC: Pedal-Soft 000129DD 1 BF 44 30 16 -- Control Change 000129DE 1 BF 45 71 16 -- CC: Hold 2 000129DF 1 BF 46 30 16 -- Control Change 000129E0 1 BF 47 71 16 -- CC: Harmonic Content 000129E1 1 BF 48 30 16 -- CC: Release Time 000129E2 1 BF 49 30 16 -- CC: Attack Time Thanks for the great engineering,Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Nice !Frank has been faster than me !So, the MBLC clone seems to work with cubase , it's a nice thing. Great news :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Nice !Frank has been faster than me !So, the MBLC clone seems to work with cubase , it's a nice thing. Great news :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Great Frank! :)It seems that Cubase sends the message strings with two different device identifiers - or did you change the ID during the run?The first string goes to device 2F and includes Preparing Connection Cubase SX - Version 1.0.5.58 The second string goes to device 14 and includes Pan Pan Left-Right Page:01/02How does Cubase react with LCEMU_ID 14 or 2F?If the message handling under Cubase is the only imperfection, I will add an option which allows to display string which are going to any Mackie deviceWhat's about the button function, do they work?Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Great Frank! :)It seems that Cubase sends the message strings with two different device identifiers - or did you change the ID during the run?The first string goes to device 2F and includes Preparing Connection Cubase SX - Version 1.0.5.58 The second string goes to device 14 and includes Pan Pan Left-Right Page:01/02How does Cubase react with LCEMU_ID 14 or 2F?If the message handling under Cubase is the only imperfection, I will add an option which allows to display string which are going to any Mackie deviceWhat's about the button function, do they work?Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 Hi Thorsten,Good news for Cubase SX and Nuendo users, i think the emulation is working.Set the LCEMU id to "14" and use the Mackie Control profile in Cubase and it will work. I tried id "2F"but it does nothing.I'm using a 16x2 display so i cant see much but the display is responding to Cubase. If i change the channel name in cubase the display will also update.Buttons are working. I've only tested afew so far, here is the list:-1. Fader select works2. Mute, Solo and transport works.3. Bank left, Bank right, Channel left & channel right also works.Only problem is button and led behaviour is not correct.Example: Solo uses note on/note off. If i press solo on in cubase screen mixer, led in MBMF comes on and stays on which is correct. If i press solo off in onscreen mixer MBMF led goes off, also correct. This is the behaviour of leds in MBMF if triggered from MBMF buttons: -1.button@toggle first push - mbmf led on/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led off/onscreen led still on third push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off 2.button@OnOnly first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led nothing/onscreen led off3.button@OnOff first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led offI think the @toggle function is correct but it should take only 2 pushes as in: 1st push send note on 2nd push send note offRegarding the Lcd display problem, is it possible to use 40x2 display but with special handling to reduce characters for each channel to 5, (8x5=40) but only 4 displayed the fifth is a space. I think it would still be useful as in bass, syn=synthe, snr=snare, lvox= lead vox etc. I hope i'm not sounding stupid :-)hope the info is of help to you.PeaceFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 Hi Thorsten,Good news for Cubase SX and Nuendo users, i think the emulation is working.Set the LCEMU id to "14" and use the Mackie Control profile in Cubase and it will work. I tried id "2F"but it does nothing.I'm using a 16x2 display so i cant see much but the display is responding to Cubase. If i change the channel name in cubase the display will also update.Buttons are working. I've only tested afew so far, here is the list:-1. Fader select works2. Mute, Solo and transport works.3. Bank left, Bank right, Channel left & channel right also works.Only problem is button and led behaviour is not correct.Example: Solo uses note on/note off. If i press solo on in cubase screen mixer, led in MBMF comes on and stays on which is correct. If i press solo off in onscreen mixer MBMF led goes off, also correct. This is the behaviour of leds in MBMF if triggered from MBMF buttons: -1.button@toggle first push - mbmf led on/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led off/onscreen led still on third push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led off 2.button@OnOnly first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led nothing/onscreen led off3.button@OnOff first push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led on second push - mbmf led flashes/onscreen led offI think the @toggle function is correct but it should take only 2 pushes as in: 1st push send note on 2nd push send note offRegarding the Lcd display problem, is it possible to use 40x2 display but with special handling to reduce characters for each channel to 5, (8x5=40) but only 4 displayed the fifth is a space. I think it would still be useful as in bass, syn=synthe, snr=snare, lvox= lead vox etc. I hope i'm not sounding stupid :-)hope the info is of help to you.PeaceFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hi Frank,today (ooops - yesterday) I built a nice 32 LED/Button module which allows me to play with the LC emulation more ergonomically:I finally noticed the same strange behaviour and found a way to fix it. With the new release, it is possible to map the LED shift registers to different functions, so that you can decide if the LEDs should only be controlled by the button handler, or only from the host application via MIDI.Remark: all buttons should be in On/Off mode, Logic/Cubase handle the toggle function by itself, and sometimes the LEDs flash on special events. I.e., the mute LEDs are flashing in solo mode)LCD display: I will try it next week. It makes sense to support both solution: a cheap & dirty 40x2 LCD driver, and a graphic display solution (which also isn't perfect but still cheaper when a dedicated 55x2 LCD)Best Regards, Thorsten.Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hi Frank,today (ooops - yesterday) I built a nice 32 LED/Button module which allows me to play with the LC emulation more ergonomically:I finally noticed the same strange behaviour and found a way to fix it. With the new release, it is possible to map the LED shift registers to different functions, so that you can decide if the LEDs should only be controlled by the button handler, or only from the host application via MIDI.Remark: all buttons should be in On/Off mode, Logic/Cubase handle the toggle function by itself, and sometimes the LEDs flash on special events. I.e., the mute LEDs are flashing in solo mode)LCD display: I will try it next week. It makes sense to support both solution: a cheap & dirty 40x2 LCD driver, and a graphic display solution (which also isn't perfect but still cheaper when a dedicated 55x2 LCD)Best Regards, Thorsten.Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Great Work Frank,Thank you a lot for your all what you do!Best regards to you and thorsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Great Work Frank,Thank you a lot for your all what you do!Best regards to you and thorsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 You're welcome Damien, the pleasure is all mine :-).I enjoy Thorsten's projects very much and its the least i could do to support his untiring efforts for this community.PeaceFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 You're welcome Damien, the pleasure is all mine :-).I enjoy Thorsten's projects very much and its the least i could do to support his untiring efforts for this community.PeaceFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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