Review of SmashTV's new line of PCBs

[jdutcher]

Hi Everyone,

Per SmashTV's request, I'm posting a review of his new line of midibox PCBs.  I'll preface this by saying that, although I was asked by SmashTV to review the boards, he made no demands that it be a positive review or anything like that...he simply wanted to offer people a second opinion on the quality of the new boards.

In an effort to heal my broken midibox SID, I rebuilt the guts on the new versions of the CORE, SID, and DIN boards.  Originally, I had used the older versions of all three boards.  I've done plenty of soldering before, but it took me a while to finish on the old boards and I still ended up with a few solder bridges and general messiness.  One of the worst problems was peeling traces.  Keep in mind that this wasn't SmashTV's fault...the boards weren't defective...but even the slightest amount of over-heating on the tiniest traces was enough to kill them.  Both of these problems are COMPLETELY ELIMINATED with the new boards thanks to the introduction of a solder mask.  For those that don't know, a solder mask is a thin solder-resistant surface that covers the traces but leaves the pads exposed.  This greatly reduces bridging and eliminates trace peeling.  The new boards sport a very high quality mask.

Another handy change in the new boards is the pad plating.  Bare copper pads tend to get tarnished fairly quickly, especially after being touched by fingers, etc.  The new plating stays shiny and clean for a much longer period of time, even without the use of steel wool.  

The white silksreening on the component side of the boards is much more legible than the older boards.  Not only is the print much clearer, it provides much more contrast with the new, green boards than the previous black-on-tan scheme.

Another obvious advantage with the new boards is the new component placement which generally cleans up the traces a bit and provides room for a heatsink on the CORE board.  This didn't affect me too much as I don't use a heatsink anyway, but I can see how it would be a benefit to those who do.

The one problem I had was with the resistors.  The new boards boast that the resistors are supposed to lay flat on the board, but mine didn't unless I bent the leads flush with the edge of the resistor with a pair of pliers and that's never a good idea as it can put a lot of stress on the resistor itself.  It probably wouldn't be as big a deal with 1/8 watt resistors, but I was using the 1/4 watt resistors that came with the kits.  Ultimately this really isn't an issue, but it would be nice if the (1/4 watt) resistors actually did lay flat with relative ease.

Overall, I really have nothing but good things to say about the new PCBs.  I didn't actually keep track of how long it took me to build my midibox in each case, but I'd estimate that it took about 1/3 the time with the new boards.  And the most amazing part: prices have gone down!  Also, he now offers a complete SID kit (minus the SID, of course!).  SmashTV has really outdone himself and I can't thank him enough for the quality of the invaluable service he provides.

Thanks,

James Dutcher

[smashtv]

Heya James!

Thanks so much for the review!

A lot of time and prep has gone into the boards and kits to try to make them as easy as possible to build.  

That said let me address the issues you had so that hopefully other builders can benefit.  I'm not intending to question or criticize here, just help others through these rough spots..... ;)

One of the worst problems was peeling traces.  Keep in mind that this wasn't SmashTV's fault...the boards weren't defective...but even the slightest amount of over-heating on the tiniest traces was enough to kill them.

The iron is/was too hot.  They do peel easier without the mask there to help glue them down, but I have -never- peeled a trace on the old process boards, even with repeated soldering/desoldering on the same pads.

I have actually temp tested every generation of copper laminate to make sure delamination only happens at very high temps with long exposure.  (Lesson learned from long past experience buying a box of cheap copper clad made from a bad fiberglass mix and were not heated/bonded correctly!)

This greatly reduces bridging and eliminates trace peeling.  The new boards sport a very high quality mask.

Yeah, I love the solder mask.  Solder just does not stick to anything but the pads. ;D

Another handy change in the new boards is the pad plating.  Bare copper pads tend to get tarnished fairly quickly, especially after being touched by fingers, etc.  The new plating stays shiny and clean for a much longer period of time, even without the use of steel wool.

hehe love this too, the old way was silver immersion plating (a little bit better than bare copper for solderability), new way is hot air solder leveling (perfect solderability).

The one problem I had was with the resistors.  The new boards boast that the resistors are supposed to lay flat on the board, but mine didn't unless I bent the leads flush with the edge of the resistor with a pair of pliers and that's never a good idea as it can put a lot of stress on the resistor itself.  It probably wouldn't be as big a deal with 1/8 watt resistors, but I was using the 1/4 watt resistors that came with the kits.  Ultimately this really isn't an issue, but it would be nice if the (1/4 watt) resistors actually did lay flat with relative ease.

There is a trick to this, no tools are needed for installing the resistors flat on the board!  Just grab the resistor body with one hand and fold the lead over to a 90 degree angle with the tip of a finger on the other hand.  This means pushing on the lead right at the resistor body to bend it, not the end of the lead.  I know this seems like a lot of stress on the resistor, but I promise, it will take it.

After bending insert both leads into the board, and carefully but firmly push the resistor down to flat on the board (this takes a little bit of pressure, but not nearly enough to break anything.)

This hole spacing was carefully chosen, and holds the resistors in there without having to bend the leads all over the place while soldering.

My goal has always been no tools needed to load the parts..... :)

Overall, I really have nothing but good things to say about the new PCBs.  I didn't actually keep track of how long it took me to build my midibox in each case, but I'd estimate that it took about 1/3 the time with the new boards.  And the most amazing part: prices have gone down!  Also, he now offers a complete SID kit (minus the SID, of course!).  SmashTV has really outdone himself and I can't thank him enough for the quality of the invaluable service he provides.

Thanks,

James Dutcher

Thank you!  

I was repairing an arcade game board a while back and was reminded of the solder time savings working with solder mask vs. no mask, so that fueled the quest to do it better and cheaper. ;)

Best!

Smash

[Son_of_Zoggs]

hello, i'm a new midiboxer and also have received a handful of SmashTV's new PCBs.  I have a modular analog synth that is mostly kit-based, with modules from several different manufacturers.  for the most part, these are luxurious boards with thru-hole plating, solder mask on both sides, and plenty of room between parts... they make construction very easy, and perhaps limit me somewhat in becoming a better solderer for that reason ; }

anyhow, i was really thrilled to see the improvement in the 2nd-generation SmashTV boards.  still, my batch had some issues.  the most critical was that one board's traces did not align properly on the PCB, so that most pads did not encircle the thru-holes.  this makes for a really sketchy connection.  on two other boards, the topside clearcoat extended to cover up many of the thru-holes.  not too big a problem, just use something to open them up again.  finally, i was also disappointed that many of the parts did not have room to lay flat on the board - there is no way that the standard xicon 1/4-watt resistors i'm using are going to bend to fit flat.  but again, not really too much of an issue.

unrelated to the boards, and equally my fault for not recording them, are the few part errors that exist in the parts sheets, at least among the core and SID modules.  again, i should have made note, because i can't remember now which ones were wrong.  i do remember that the bridge rectifiers seemed like massive overkill - with thurston's spec calling for 40V/800mA, and SmashTV recommending 800V/1500mA parts.

still, a big thank-you to SmashTV for offering the boards, guides, and service in the first place.

soggy

[AndrewMartens]

My boards just arrived in the mail yesterday, and I picked them up this morning.  They look great!  I may be working 12 hour days, but hopefully today I can go home and get most of a Core and SID module wired up tonight.  With any luck, I'll have a nice dual-SID box up and running within two weeks, and I'll be able to move on to my YM2149F synth.

I'm kicking myself for not ordering the full core & SID kits, though.  "I'm not paying $10 USD for stuff I may or may not have in my parts box... instead I'll spend hours digging through it and tracking down all the part numbers that I don't have!"  Yeah, that was a GREAT idea by me  :P

[smashtv]

Heya Zoggs!

Please send me an email (there is no cross reference between your username here and your info when you ordered, so I don't know who to email) so we can talk about a sending you a replacement board/module.  The bad board was a total accident, I always do my best to eyeball the boards for rejects as I pack the orders, but this one escaped me.  If anyone else has had this issue, -please- let me know.  

I'll inspect every board on the shelf tonight to try to catch any other rejects.

My three goals with the store: Best possible quality, cheapest possible price, and every customer happy.  

Price consideration never before quality.  ;)

hello, i'm a new midiboxer and also have received a handful of SmashTV's new PCBs.  I have a modular analog synth that is mostly kit-based, with modules from several different manufacturers.  for the most part, these are luxurious boards with thru-hole plating, solder mask on both sides, and plenty of room between parts... they make construction very easy, and perhaps limit me somewhat in becoming a better solderer for that reason ; }

Just to clarify here, none of the boards (old generation or new) have through hole plate (very hard to do well on a single sided board).  Also the only boards I did with solder mask on both sides are the SID and JDM boards, and I have done every other run since then with solder mask copper side only, mainly because of the issues you had with the clear top coat trying to fill in the holes a bit.  (apparently this is only an issue when there is not a pad/through hole/via on the side where the hole fills in, with copper and tin there instead of glass resin the top coat washes out properly.)

finally, i was also disappointed that many of the parts did not have room to lay flat on the board - there is no way that the standard xicon 1/4-watt resistors i'm using are going to bend to fit flat.  but again, not really too much of an issue.

wow I really did not realize people were having trouble with this!  The resistors I use in the kits are standard xicon 1/4w, and I have no problems getting them to lay flat on the boards -without using any tools-.

I'll need to making a short video clip to show this, I promise the spacing is a feature and not a bug!  :)

unrelated to the boards, and equally my fault for not recording them, are the few part errors that exist in the parts sheets, at least among the core and SID modules.  again, i should have made note, because i can't remember now which ones were wrong.

I need to know where the list is wrong, so I can make changes.  Nobody else has mentioned any issues with the lists, so I could use some help here.....

i do remember that the bridge rectifiers seemed like massive overkill - with thurston's spec calling for 40V/800mA, and SmashTV recommending 800V/1500mA parts.

Yep, massive overkill but since they are more commonly used than the smaller rated bridge recs, the W06G(600v) and W08G(800v) are usually less expensive than any other bridge rec with the same footprint.

still, a big thank-you to SmashTV for offering the boards, guides, and service in the first place.

soggy

Very cool, and Thank You!  Any help I can get with accuracy on the info on the sites is much appreciated, so if anyone sees me something wrong please let me know!

Best!

Smash

[jdutcher]

hey,

glad to see this post is generating some interest!  smash, just to follow up on the resistor issue:

bending the leads on resistors is pretty basic, so my guess is that most people on this board, myself included, know how to do it properly.  perhaps you're pinching a bit harder than the rest of us ;)...all i know is that 95% of my CORE resistors are at roughly a 25 degree angle with the board.

oh yeah, and one more thing.  i misspoke slightly when i discussed the peeling traces.  it only happened to me when i was desoldering some of the larger headers to hardwire cables to the board.  other than that, no problems.  just a note: i'm running a 30W iron...i know it's a bit on the high end temperature-wise, but i'm just too impatient to keep it at cooler ::)

james

[smashtv]

hey,

glad to see this post is generating some interest!  smash, just to follow up on the resistor issue:

bending the leads on resistors is pretty basic, so my guess is that most people on this board, myself included, know how to do it properly.  perhaps you're pinching a bit harder than the rest of us ;)...all i know is that 95% of my CORE resistors are at roughly a 25 degree angle with the board.

Hehe now I have to do a video of this.  I never even dreamed this would be an issue for anyone!  :)

Maybe I am a bit rougher with this stuff than most people are, but they just pop right in for me, the key is a good sharp 90 degree bend on the lead, as close as possible to the body of the resistor.

I'll shoot some video of me bending leads and loading resistors on a Core.  The first thing I did after reading the first post was sit down with a Core board and tear open a Core kit.  I had all of the resistors loaded onto the board and ready to solder in under 5 minutes with no tools (and not much fiddling).  Just have to talk my digital camera into shooting some moving footage......

oh yeah, and one more thing.  i misspoke slightly when i discussed the peeling traces.  it only happened to me when i was desoldering some of the larger headers to hardwire cables to the board.  other than that, no problems.  just a note: i'm running a 30W iron...i know it's a bit on the high end temperature-wise, but i'm just too impatient to keep it at cooler ::)

james

Hehe when I said the iron is too hot, I should have added that I speak from experience.....I used to run a hot iron for exactly the same reason, and an iron that is perfect for digital usually does not do well with anything larger, just not enough heat to correctly work with some of those larger parts.

All that changed when I put a decent weller station on every bench (at home and at work, back when I was a solder monkey), with temperature regulation in the tip and a good element you don't have to run a hot iron to flow the connections fast..... :)

Best!

Smash

[jdutcher]

haha, i must say, i'd love to see a video!  who would've thought it would come to this, eh? ;D ;D

[smashtv]

haha, i must say, i'd love to see a video!  who would've thought it would come to this, eh? ;D ;D

Hehe no doubt!   :)

Patching any kind of video capture is my project this morning, which is completely ironic considering I am part owner of a production company (with all needed tools to do this easy with pro/broadcast quality) but unfortunately it's all located in Dallas, a couple hundred miles away.....

Let's see what I can come up with by lunch time.  ;D

Best!

Smash

[iceberg]

I am glad to see this review and all the positive feedback. Im in the process of trying to sell some SGIs and some other networking stuff that Im not using just to buy these boards. I was going to buy them even without reading this, as I've seen SmashTV post a lot and I just asumed if he was still around he was reputable and the products were good. I dont know how soon Im gona have the money to order, but Im dieing get this going. I'm very impressed witht he pricing too!  I compared what it would cost to actualy buy the parts from mouser and it is cheaper to buy full kits. For this alone SmashTV should get a big roun of applause, standing ovation prefered.

I plan to make my midiboxSID into something that will be my primary sound module backed up by a Emu E5000 ultra all sequenced from my Yamaha RS7000. As good as the MidiBoxSeq is I still prefer the RS7000.

Now you all gone and done it, Im so excited about doing this project now Im gona have to push the isue with a buddy that is suposed to buy this networking stuff. Even the giddy school girls have stoped to look at me. <checks to make sure he didnt wet himself>

Power to the people, who needs large corperations to build a synth!

[AndrewMartens]

Hehe now I have to do a video of this.  I never even dreamed this would be an issue for anyone!  :)

Maybe I am a bit rougher with this stuff than most people are, but they just pop right in for me, the key is a good sharp 90 degree bend on the lead, as close as possible to the body of the resistor.

I dug through my parts box last night and found almost everything I needed to put together one Core module.  I'm not quite sure of your technique, but here's what I used:

- hold the resistor body with one hand

- pressing with your other hand's thumb starting on the resistor body and rolling over the end of the resistor on one of the legs

- repeat for the other leg

About 90% of the time it gets it close enough to the resistor in order to have a nice drop-in fit into the PCB.  5% requires a press fit, and the other 5% I have sitting at about a 10 degree angle up from the board because I was too lazy to re-bend the resistor.

These boards are great!  It only took me two hours to wire up a Core module, and about 90 minutes of that was digging through all my old parts to see what I had available :)

Time to order up some 2200 uF caps (I _knew_ I forgot something!) and a case to drop this into.  Oh boy!

Regarding "being rough" with resistors - well, they're tiny passive devices that cost pennies... may as well be rough with them.  People shouldn't be afraid of damaging the resistors - just order a few spares!

[diggum]

Add another happy customer to the list.  Last week, I ordered the Core kit, and an AOUT and DOUT kit, and they arrived within days.  I built the AOUT and DOUT boards quickly, and I'm by no means a solder monkey.  I had no problems with the resistors fitting flush, or at least flush enough.  

The only issue I ran into was losing the small extra connection pins that were part of the AOUT kit, and having to desolder a few from an old Central Point Software copy board from the late 80's!  

I'll start working on the Core module later this week.  Once that's all done, I'll head out looking for the killer knobs, buttons, and faders that are going to make my Traktor controller kick ass.

[smashtv]

Thanks so much for the positive comments and feedback!  ;D

I made up a 40 second video (bad quality, small and compressed) and it's about 1.3 mb in size.  

It's compressed using the mpeg 4 codec, and then zipped (so it can be seen/transfered regardless of server mime type settings or browser mime settings).

It was made on a Mac so I know any version of MacOS after 9 will have the codecs with quicktime already, and the .zip file is stuffit expander freindly.

On the PC side it plays fine on my wintendo98 VPC install, so if it won't play for you no matter what OS post about it here (but please make sure you have the latest mpeg codecs for your player first!)

Get the clip here.<---edit (link removed/see new link below)

Best!

Smash

[jdutcher]

doesn't work on my PC (windows xp).  i thought i had my codec bases covered, but i'll download the latest and see if that works

[smashtv]

i thought i had my codec bases covered

You probably do have all your bases covered.  This usually die-hard TIbook has fought me on everything I asked of it today, so I'm not real suprised that it doesn't work as expected.

Can you view quicktime?  Do you have the free player or browser plugin? If not I'll keep pushing it through codecs until one reads for ya.  ;)

Click here for same movie, but encoded as quicktime. (4mb)

Quicktime player is available here.

Best!

Smash

[jdutcher]

ok, thanks smash, that one worked.  well, i'm satisfied...good work.  i'll see how it goes on my next core board.

[smashtv]

Cool!  Now since that's out there, is the resistor spacing a feature or a bug?  

I can route all resistors for 10mm lead spacing on future generations of the board layout(s), but that's completely based on a group average answer to the question above.  :)

Thanks so much everyone for your honest comments, please keep them coming as it fuels improvement.  I do enjoy the usual "these boards are awesome" feedback, but most people forget to let me know about small issues they have while building that I could eliminate with a layout change.

I'm definitely not one of the "my way is always the best way" type of people!

Have fun!

Smash

[AndrewMartens]

Cool!  Now since that's out there, is the resistor spacing a feature or a bug?  

I can route all resistors for 10mm lead spacing on future generations of the board layout(s), but that's completely based on a group average answer to the question above.  :)

Thanks so much everyone for your honest comments, please keep them coming as it fuels improvement.  I do enjoy the usual "these boards are awesome" feedback, but most people forget to let me know about small issues they have while building that I could eliminate with a layout change.

I'm definitely not one of the "my way is always the best way" type of people!

Have fun!

Smash

I was pleased with the resistor spacing on the Core R3 board, as I mentioned in a previous post - it works quite well for 1/4 W resistors (at least it does for me).  However, I found that the SID R2 board seemed designed for 1/8 W resistors - I just bit the bullet and ended up with my four resistors sticking out like little launch ramps.  Not that it matters with that monster 2200 uF cap there :)  In general, it might be nice to have sufficient room for those on the SID board as well, IMO.

On a side note, for one or two of the side J-connectors on the Core module (and I believe for one on the SID), I found that there was not enough room to mount a nice latching plug due to a resistor or capacitor laid out too close.  Not a huge issue - I just used a SIL header instead - but perhaps something that could be considered for a future revision.  I'll post the connector number when I get home later today.

Still, the boards are fantastic and putting them together is a breeze.  If I hadn't ordered the wrong trimpots from Digikey (again, I really should have bought those kits!), I would be up and running already...

UPDATE:  the connectors that could use a bit more spacing are J3 and J4 on the SID (C5 and C6 are a bit too close), and J13 on the CORE (R11 is a bit too close).

[jdutcher]

I can route all resistors for 10mm lead spacing on future generations of the board layout(s), but that's completely based on a group average answer to the question above.  :)

personally, i'd like to see 10mm spacing.  if that really throws off the organization though, don't do it.

also, smash, i'm using the black crimp sockets for the ribbon cables and it can be a bit tricky with the current layout.  for a quick example off of the top of my head, i actually had to shave off a few millimeters to fit the core interface cable next to the sid chip.

james

[Guest paulrevelcet]

I cant think of a single complaint, the holes for the resistors were closer than I am used to but I had no trouble getting them to lie flat ( I have pictures) and I did have a pad to peel but my rat shack iron is like 10 years old, quite honestly, the only thing that I have to complain about is the fact I feel like a thief for stealing such great quality parts at such ridicules prices, great job smash.