First MIOS release postponed for one week --- but:

[TK.]

In addition to the LC emulation, MB16e, MBMF, MB64 and the upcoming MBLC will support the Houston protocol with the next release :)

For Cubase users this protocol offers some advantages - the integration into the Cubase SX environment is better, and a 2x40 LCD can be used instead of a graphical LCD, this saves some money.... with a graphical LCD, the font will be nicer than in Mackie Control mode.

However, with a BankStick or via SysEx data dump exchange you will be able to switch between both modes - just choose your personal favourite ;-)

Thanks to Frank - he gave me the right hints - currently I'm testing the emulation with the demo version of Cubase SX :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Ian_Hurlock]

Bring it on :o :o :o :o :o

My motorfaders are burning a hole in the box !!

The MBLC will support 16 motor faders with extra core ?

Great stuff young man  ;D ;D

Ian

[Steven_C]

wow! things are really moving along! and Thorsten has hit over 500 posts!

[Guest the_Swede]

> Thanks to Frank - he gave me the right hints -

>currently I'm testing the emulation with the demo >version of Cubase SX

He he, I thought you finally gave in and used that crack in your mailbox.... just kidding.

Is it possible to build a double-size Houston and still use this protocol? Maybe it could simulate fader-bank switching or whatnot. Eight faders are a drag for anything but the smallest projects (< 16 tracks), and a pain even then.

Another thing - Thorsten, how in heaven's name do you find the time? Are you unemployed but afraid to tell us?  Or maybe you don't require sleep. Or perhaps you are a two-headed, six-armed monster that does everything at triple speed....  ;)

[rogic]

LOL! LOL!   :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Swede, I was thinking to ask the same question :)

[TK.]

Well, as a Chip Design Engineer I've to work 40-50 hours a week... on the other hand I've very flexible working hours - I can come when I want and can go when I want, I just only have to do my job. Normally my daily work is interesting and makes a lot of fun (since it has nothing to do with PIC controllers or horrible MIDI protocols... ;-)), I don't feel stressed at the weekends so that I've still the time to realize my dreams ::)

Concerning the Houston protocol: unfortunately the Steinberg guys didn't implement the multiclient setup capability, so it isn't possible to combine several Houston boxes with the same flexibility like known from the Mackie Control. But it is possible to add other MIDI controllers to the same MIDI line as "Generic Remotes" - this allows you to assign additional pots, faders or encoders to any parameter (disadvantage: without the same flexibility and especially without display support from the host application...).

In my eyes the best solution: the Houston emulation only with 8 V-pots and some buttons to control the EQs, fx-VSTs, VSTis and the transport bar. & one, two or more MIDIbox MF without display to control the volumes (or other functions --- bank-switching is supported by Cubase!)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest the_Swede]

Well, you would still want to have an extra display and the vpots for the eight other channels. How about using Mackie Control emulation, that is pretty integrated in Cubase I reckon?

Question: In this mode, can you do 16MF:s, 16 vpots with associated buttons and two 2x40 LCD displays (if you use enough cores that is)?

If yes, I will get right down to ordering the parts tomorrow!

[TK.]

Hi Swede,

the demo version of Cubase SX V1.02 doesn't include the Mackie PlugIn, therefore I cannot confirm if this configuration works ok. But note: a Mackie emulation with 2x40 LCD isn't really useable. Maybe I could provide a mod which skips some characters (overall 2x16 characters have to be removed between the 8 channel strips...) but the result will be far from perfection. :-/

If you are interested in Mackie mode, you should better wait for the 5" LCD solution:

http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1043023674

-> for the emulation stuff graphical LCDs are most flexible.

-> Houston emulation is only usefull as low-cost solution

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest the_Swede]

Ah, don't over-exert yourself Thorsten! We wouldn't want you to start sprouting arms and heads all over the place...  ;)

I think I'll hang back then but my aim will definitely be whatever 16-fader 16-vpot controller will work with Cubase SX. Mackie Control ought to do nicely. If the hardware isn't prone to change I could always construct the thing and tweak it to work within SX since I know how to program PICs. There're some nice new instructions on the 18F by the way! You could almost call the memory model linear...

[TK.]

You've programming skills? Fine - herewith you are nominated as official owner of the Mackie Control/Houston PlugIns  ;D

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest the_Swede]

Sure thing Thorsten, glad to be able to lend a hand! But please remember that I haven't even started construction, so I can't be of any real help until the box is finished. I've programming skills sure, but almost no construction skills, so it might take awhile.

To enable me to start construction ASAP I need to know what hardware will work with your alpha version of MiOS, which I will certainly work from as a starting point. Have I got the straight of it for 16 faders, 16 v-pots, innumerate buttons and leds (no more than 128 each, not counting ledrings)?

4 cores

2 MF

6 DINs

5 DOUTs

2 LCDs

+ of course tons of encoders, faders, buttons and leds

- Viking Man

[TK.]

ack. - these are the required modules.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest the_Swede]

Thorsten!

I was just going to order the PCB:s from Mike when I noticed he's done an overhaul of the page, but I cannot find the MF module! Without this I cannot start construction, as goes without saying. Mein Deutsch ist so schlecht niemand kann mich verstehen :(, and I've been given to understand Mike doesn't do much better at English. Could you please check out where the board is?

thanks thanks thanks in advance!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[TK.]

Hi Swede,

strange strange - I just have sent him a mail

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest djaychela]

.... but there could well be a problem with the Houston mode of the controllers.  As shown on my site, the Houston had a problem with the fader scaling; a movement of the fader by the user (let's say to generate a MIDI MSB of 100) then being sent back to the same fader would produce a different physical movement; this meant in practice that the Houston's faders were not accurate; one of the reasons that I returned my unit after Steinberg didn't address the problem.

However, they did address it in SX 1.05; this changed the scaling between input and output to compensate for the differences.  I'd think that a Houston simulation mode on the MB series will need to take this into account, otherwise they'll suffer from a similar problem to the Houston pre SX1.05.  In the demo version (that I believe Thorsten is using), the scaling is 1:1 (i.e. "correct" - where an input of 100 from the fader will result in the fader moving to that same position); on the SX1.05 (and later) versions, the scaling isn't the same.  

Unfortunately I didn't do any in-depth testing on this before returning my unit; the only value that I have is the one quoted on my site; moving a fader to a position that generates 105 (when moved by the user) will need to be sent an MSB of 100 (so that the Houston moves the fader to the right place).  That's the only figure I have, so I'd assume that some testing will need to be done with SX 1.05 to get the right scaling factor.

[TK.]

Swede: Mike removed the MF board from his shop by fault, it should be available again in the next hours. :)

Djaychela: poooh, it seems that some additional effort is necessary in order to implement a workaround for the workaround  :P Maybe the easiest solution: I could add some kind of generic calibration table which allows the user to map incoming values to absolute fader positions...

Thanks for the hint!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Guest djaychela]

Thorsten:  I think that your idea sounds just fine; I understand that all Houstons have the exact same problem, so once one person has done it with SX1.05 or newer, then they could feed the values back to you and make it a permanent change.

Also, having had some contact with Frank about the Houston's MIDI implementation (most of which I'd already outlined on my site, under the "Information" page), I've also added to http://www.houstoncontroller.co.uk more information which gives the MIDI implementation for all the buttons on the unit, plus details of the 'flashing' button modes too.  Hope this (and the other info on the site) helps out.

[TK.]

Thanks again - yes, the button map is really usefull! Frank has nearly completed the .ini file for a complete emulation. But in the meantime we also found some imperfections, which will not be fixed for PIC16F (due to the required effort), but only for the PIC18F version:

All PIC16F MIDIboxes: flashing LEDs not supported

MIDIbox64: MSB of v-pots ignored, so that it makes no sense to use pots as encoder replacement.

MIDIbox16E: MSB issue has been fixed since the last release, a new release will be done in a few days. Encoders can work with a resolution up to 14 bit now. But only the first 8 encoders, due to memory limitations. A solution for all encoders could be possible, but this would lead to a completely different MB16e variant with a new data structure. LED rings not working correctly.

MIDIbox MF: no additional issue found yet

As I want to reduce my own effort for this type of emulation (the Mackie Control emulation is working perfectly, and thats the most important for myself... ;-)) the "perfect houston emulation" will only be realized for the PIC18F

Best Regards, Thorsten.