SEQ V2->V3 Migration inc older V2 problems in post too.

[dcer10]

Hi all,

Just in case anyone is interested, I have replaced the core with a V4 core from smash and it solved the memory problem instantly.  All of the front panel is working 100% but the data wheel is a bit iffy in regard to moving evenly and always in the right direction, but step 10 & 14 work fine now.

I am upgrading the sequencer to V3 to see what its all about. I have just built up 4 x IIC boards, added the new core, the 8 chip bankstick and am drilling out the back panel today to accomodate the connections from the IIC's which Im still a bit confused about but im assuming that there will be at least 1 new midi out for each board, i just dont know if using the midi out from the core will be possible too?? Im thinking I will need 7 midi jacks on the back being in to core x 1, out from each IIC x 4, IIC 1 out duplication via LTC x 1, and midi thru from IIC 1 x 1 = 7. I have 4 already so just need to make room for 3 more and now also the 4 extra gate outs from the core to support the Aout. Im a little confused about this too, would you use the gate outs from the core only or mix with the ones from the Aout? I guess I only need 8 to match the 8 CV outs from the Aout so extras arent required as I dont have room :}

Also, how are others approaching the 4 channel group buttons? I dont want to drill some messy holes into the front panel, and I dont think they would fit anyway, I dont know where to put these new buttons!

Heres a couple of shots of the progress.

Thanks,

John

[dcer10]

Extra shots

[dcer10]

Hi All,

So far so good, the 4 IIC modules are working and passed the loopback test, I have also managed to upload the new V3 sequencer application without any problems so far!!

I was hoping that my problem with the data wheel being a bit unstable would go away, but it has not, I may try moving it to another SR to see what happens :}

Ive also now fit all of the IIC midi outs on the rear, so I have now 7 midi jacks inc the LTC clone out and thru, and the sync out! When you combine that with 8 CV outs and 8 gate outs, thats a lot of connections, what a machine! TK you are a genius, this box fills the roles of many boxes!!!!

On another good note I can now use the banksticks so I have access to the pattern and song modes for the first time ever!!! Also, out of the 50+ 24LC256 chips I have I tested each one to get rid of any duds, turns out 8 were fried and now live in the bin, all the rest were good so Im making a few external boxes with 8 banksticks each and have a switch on the rear panel to choose int/ext. This is actually working!

Using the same 9 pin Dsub as the bankstick I've forwarded on a VS and 4 pins to the Din board and I may make an external remote for channel group selections ie 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 via 4 buttons - would use leds too but my dout is full and case is full. These connections can pass thru the external bankstick box to another Dsub which can connect up the remote box. This way the ram and remote box can be connected in any order without any problems on the rear Dsub.

Is this nessecary or can this selection be made in the menu??  All the wires are connected I just have to make the remote box now, but I will only do it if its the only option.

I havent made any actual use of the seq yet as its still in bits on the bench, but Im looking forward to it!

All the best,

John

[dcer10]

Hi All,

I have enabled the Aout, but im confused of its configuration. I want to have 8 channels of the CV/Gate. It used to be that the 8 cvs would connect from the Aout board, and some gates from the Aout and some from the core. Now it seems that there is 8 gates on the core, would they match up with the CVs if I only used them? The wiring seems easier to take all of the gates from the core. What would I put in for these sections of the asm?

;; use PORTA and PORTE (J5 of the core module) as trigger output

;; NEVER USE THIS TOGETHER WITH ANALOG POTS - IT WILL CAUSE A SHORT CIRCUIT!

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_J5_GATES 0

;; additional gate triggers are available on common digital output pins of the

;; DOUT shift register chain - they are assigned to AOUT channel #16 (Note C-1, C#1, D-1, ...)

;; define the shift registers which should be used here (each provides 8 gates)

;; Note that SRs assigned to this function cannot be used as LED outputs (exclusive function)

;; Allowed values: 1-16, 0 disables the function, all other values invalid and not allowed

;; Note: depending on the shift registers you are using, you have to adjust

;; the DEFAULT_NUMBER_SR value at the top of this configuration

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_09_16  0

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_17_24  0

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_25_31  0

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_32_39  0

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_40_47  0

#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_DOUT_GATE_48_55  0

;; if set to 1, the DOUT "gates" will send 1mS pulses

;; useful for analog drums

#define DEFAULT_DOUT_1MS_TRIGGER 0

I dont need any drum triggers - they wont fit on the rear panel :}

Also is there a way to set up the default port in track event menu? Currently it goes to the default port which must be the midi out on the core I guess? I need to manually tell it to use IIC1. Also my IIC boards are not putting any midi out. I will need to check the wires before I get too worried!

When connecting up the bankstick from the switch I mentioned it says something about it being defined as a 32K device, is that normal? Seems like an error message??

Also my LTC module doesnt seem to be working either, no lights and no midi. Im using it to duplicate IIC port 1 and provide a THRU and in/out lights.

Any suggestions??

Thanks in advance!

John

[dcer10]

Hi All,

To add a bit more detail I swapped over the datawheel encoders to a new SR but im still getting the problem of the encoder being unstable and not always doing what you want. Its only the datawheel, the others are fine. There is a video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joqISCjdlVc

Showing the behaviour.

I cant get any feedback from the core when uploading an application and using IIC1 or I presume any other IIC port. I am getting midi events out of each IIC as expected.

The LTC module is not working at all, it is connected to IIC1. No LEDs are showing midi activity, and also no duplicate of IIC1 midi out, or the midi thru are working.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

[TK.]

Ideally I would like to run all of my gear from the sequencer and have no pc!

Note that the planned internal MIDI router will only provide a very simple forwardning, it's not intended to replace the MIDI router project, since this would affect the overall sequencer performance too much.

So, you will be able to define a MIDI In forwarding option for all outputs (Internal 4 IIC, Loopback, AOUT) individually, but thats all. It won't be possible to forward SysEx messages!

My seq and my G3 running logic using the studio 4 router dont agree, especially when it comes to timing. The seq seems to be perfect, but the mac reads it +- 2-5bmp fluctuating so a lot of stuff cant be played back in time after the midi is recorded. Dont know why that happens.

It's very typical that MIDI software cannot synchronize exactly to external MIDI clocks, the same happens on my PC. The only computer which can do this very stable is my good old Atari ST ;-)

Therefore, for synchronized MIDI recording, it's better to run the sequencer as MIDI slave, and to use the Mac/PC as clock master.

What is unclear to me is how you would actually change between all of the 16 tracks from the tracks 1-4 buttons. I may have been looking at the wrong posts :} There is a lot of things to read. I will look again. Im just trying to figure out how much extra soldering I will need to do to the inside of the seq if any. I was reading the text file with the V3 software and I was not sure on the whole track concept, there was a mention of the various Dout settings to show track usage with the LED's and that looked like mine may need to be reconfigured, is that correct {mine is based on yours when yours was a V2 exactly the same}. Id much prefer not to have to solder to any existing hardware if its possible to avoid.

You don't need to solder extra buttons, it's only an option if somebody creates a new frontpanel, but for guys like me, who are using the "normal" frontpanel, a ergonomical selection of the tracks is possible as well.

First option: use F4 to cycle through the 4 track groups.

Second option: press and hold the mute button: now you can select the track directly with the 16 GP buttons

My Aout isnt even hooked up yet as I am waiting on a power board from a friend which will provide power for the Aout and the core board at once, maybe its best for me to wait for V3 to be finished before I hook it up??

The AOUT options are completely implemented, they should work

i just dont know if using the midi out from the core will be possible too??

It is possible, but it could show some failures (wrong MIDI events) when something is received on the MIDI In at the same time (see FAQ)

So, in general it can only be used in a reliable way, when there is nothing connected to the MIDI In

Using the same 9 pin Dsub as the bankstick I've forwarded on a VS and 4 pins to the Din board and I may make an external remote for channel group selections ie 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 via 4 buttons - would use leds too but my dout is full and case is full. These connections can pass thru the external bankstick box to another Dsub which can connect up the remote box. This way the ram and remote box can be connected in any order without any problems on the rear Dsub.

Is this nessecary or can this selection be made in the menu??  All the wires are connected I just have to make the remote box now, but I will only do it if its the only option.

As mentioned above: of course, you can select everything from the available buttons, just keep in mind, that I haven't changed my own frontpanel!

I have enabled the Aout, but im confused of its configuration. I want to have 8 channels of the CV/Gate. It used to be that the 8 cvs would connect from the Aout board, and some gates from the Aout and some from the core. Now it seems that there is 8 gates on the core, would they match up with the CVs if I only used them? The wiring seems easier to take all of the gates from the core. What would I put in for these sections of the asm?

Just set the DEFAULT_ENABLE_J5_GATES switch to 1, so that the 8 gates are available at the J5 port.

The AOUT routing is explained at the buttom of the CHANGELOG.txt file. When you are using AOUT channel #1-#9, the CV Outs will send the note values, and the appr. gates will be triggered.

Also is there a way to set up the default port in track event menu? Currently it goes to the default port which must be the midi out on the core I guess?

The default port is the one you've configured in the PIC ID header.

You can use the change_id application in order to select another port, e.g. upload iic_midi_10.hex to select the first IIC port

I need to manually tell it to use IIC1. Also my IIC boards are not putting any midi out. I will need to check the wires before I get too worried!

Does the sequencer show you a "available" or "not available" message behind the port?

Did you select individual device IDs for all IIC modules?

When connecting up the bankstick from the switch I mentioned it says something about it being defined as a 32K device, is that normal? Seems like an error message??

now, it's just an information, that a new BankStick has been located

Also my LTC module doesnt seem to be working either, no lights and no midi. Im using it to duplicate IIC port 1 and provide a THRU and in/out lights.

The interconnections are straightforward, here it could help to compare the schematics, maybe you have swapped a pin?

To add a bit more detail I swapped over the datawheel encoders to a new SR but im still getting the problem of the encoder being unstable and not always doing what you want. Its only the datawheel, the others are fine. There is a video on youtube:

what happens, when you swap two encoder entries in the setup_mbseq_v3.asm file, e.g. the one of VPot #1 with the datawheel entry. Can VPot #1 control the datawheel function properly without jumps?

From the video it looks like two encoder pins are swapped (there are 3 possible combinations...)

I cant get any feedback from the core when uploading an application and using IIC1 or I presume any other IIC port. I am getting midi events out of each IIC as expected.

it's related to the PIC ID header configuration -> use change_id in order to change the default port

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Hi TK,

Thanks for your answers.

Note that the planned internal MIDI router will only provide a very simple forwardning, it's not intended to replace the MIDI router project, since this would affect the overall sequencer performance too much.

So, you will be able to define a MIDI In forwarding option for all outputs (Internal 4 IIC, Loopback, AOUT) individually, but thats all. It won't be possible to forward SysEx messages!

Thats ok, for most situations this and a bigger merger would do ok for me, Id like to know more about the midi router project when the documentation is out.

It's very typical that MIDI software cannot synchronize exactly to external MIDI clocks, the same happens on my PC. The only computer which can do this very stable is my good old Atari ST ;-)

Therefore, for synchronized MIDI recording, it's better to run the sequencer as MIDI slave, and to use the Mac/PC as clock master.

Thats a good idea, I never thought of that! There is an atari in the house somewhere too.. :}

You don't need to solder extra buttons, it's only an option if somebody creates a new frontpanel, but for guys like me, who are using the "normal" frontpanel, a ergonomical selection of the tracks is possible as well.

First option: use F4 to cycle through the 4 track groups.

Second option: press and hold the mute button: now you can select the track directly with the 16 GP buttons

I guess I would need to assign my F4 button in the asm as it doesnt do anything now, but I like the usage of the mute button for this, less work for me too :}

The AOUT options are completely implemented, they should work

Excellent, I will get it all hooked up then as soon as my power board is ready to supply the Aout and core.

It is possible, but it could show some failures (wrong MIDI events) when something is received on the MIDI In at the same time (see FAQ)

So, in general it can only be used in a reliable way, when there is nothing connected to the MIDI In

I decided with your advice to not use it at all.

Just set the DEFAULT_ENABLE_J5_GATES switch to 1, so that the 8 gates are available at the J5 port.

The AOUT routing is explained at the buttom of the CHANGELOG.txt file. When you are using AOUT channel #1-#9, the CV Outs will send the note values, and the appr. gates will be triggered.

So if CV out 1 from Aout matches up for notes with gate 1 from J5 that sounds ideal. Thanks for the clarification.

The default port is the one you've configured in the PIC ID header.

You can use the change_id application in order to select another port, e.g. upload iic_midi_10.hex to select the first IIC port

I did this already before uploading V3 seq application, and the IIC outs are all working , any other ideas on why it wouldnt make an upload request or provide feedback? I guess its the same problem as to why I need to go into each track and set IIC# before any notes find the output.

Does the sequencer show you a "available" or "not available" message behind the port?

Did you select individual device IDs for all IIC modules?

I get the following:

def [available]

Int [available]

IIC1 [available]

IIC2 [available]

IIC3 [available]

IIC4 [available]

Lbck [enabled]

Aout [enabled]

Ideally if def was IIC1 that would make more sense for me. The red LEDs come on the IICs as expected, I set the IDs as shown in the image on the IIC page.

With the LTC, is the connection 1:1? I checked the earth pin on both sides and worked away from it [for pin order]. Its hard to see as the PDF orientation is hard to determine and I have mikes PCBs which are not labeled. I will check this all again tomorrow.

what happens, when you swap two encoder entries in the setup_mbseq_v3.asm file, e.g. the one of VPot #1 with the datawheel entry. Can VPot #1 control the datawheel function properly without jumps?

From the video it looks like two encoder pins are swapped (there are 3 possible combinations...)

When I swap Vpot1 with the data wheel Vpot1 controls the data change without any skipping, and the datawheel changes the vpot1s usual setting jumpy as shown in the video. I wired the encoder up so the middle pin was earth, and the outer two were in a way that turn right goes up, left down. Its from smashs shop. I hope its not the encoder as removing it from the panel would be difficult to say the least!!! As shown from my other encoder problems in the past, it may be the board not the encoder. Moving the encoders to a new board/SR/pins didnt help tho.

it's related to the PIC ID header configuration -> use change_id in order to change the default port

Is this the same as what I already did for the change id application? Should I do it again?

Thanks for your help!!!

John

[TK.]

I did this already before uploading V3 seq application, and the IIC outs are all working , any other ideas on why it wouldnt make an upload request or provide feedback? I guess its the same problem as to why I need to go into each track and set IIC# before any notes find the output.

The missing or wrong PIC ID change is definitely the problem.

Ideally if def was IIC1 that would make more sense for me.

-> PIC ID 00000000100000

When I swap Vpot1 with the data wheel Vpot1 controls the data change without any skipping, and the datawheel changes the vpot1s usual setting jumpy as shown in the video. I wired the encoder up so the middle pin was earth, and the outer two were in a way that turn right goes up, left down. Its from smashs shop. I hope its not the encoder as removing it from the panel would be difficult to say the least!!! As shown from my other encoder problems in the past, it may be the board not the encoder. Moving the encoders to a new board/SR/pins didnt help tho.

According to the documentation: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=encoder_specifications, the ground has to be connected to pin C, not to the middle pin - so, thats the problem.

Is this the same as what I already did for the change id application? Should I do it again?

When you upload the change_id application, the current ID will be displayed on screen. You can use it to ensure, that the ID has changed to 0000000000100000

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Hi Thorsten,

I have changed the ID properly now, and it worked as you said for the IIC and upload with feedback!!! Thanks!!

According to the documentation: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=encoder_specifications, the ground has to be connected to pin C, not to the middle pin - so, thats the problem.

That is very odd in that all of the step encoders are connect up the same ie ,middle pin earth outer pins + - and they all work perfect???? I will try to swap the cables how you suggest, and if that wont fix it I will try swapping the encoder, if thats possible, I didnt make it easy for myself to swap the encoders :{

Thank you!!!

John

[dcer10]

I have fitted a new encoder, it was not an easy thing to do :'( , but the problem is now resolved with the datawheel!! Next time it will be easier as I removed the PCB it was mounted on and mounted it on the front panel for ease of changeover later should it break.

Im also getting a midi in light on the LTC now too! No midi out tho, TK I put the m0 line to IIC1 m0 as you said, is there any other reason this might not work? I dont recall ever seeing the midi out light come on??

Getting there!!!

Also I was wondering, when using 4 IIC boards, the midi in is only forwarded to the IIC1 output, which means my midi controller wont be able to interact with instruments on IIC2-4. I know that this kind of routing is complicated, but are there different ways to do this? I wouldnt want my midi in to go to all IICs all the time but I cetainly need it to go to more than one in total. Ideally if there was a selection in the midi menu allowing midi input to be forwarded to a particular IIC at any time that would be cool, or even better if this could also translate to the currently edited channel regardless of the port or input channel (as an option).  Ie all input goes from any input channel to which ever output channel you have selected, this would be cool also if you could then have it to allow input on any channel to match the 16 tracks when they are selected (or any combination of them) in the mute menu so you could control say all 16 tracks volume from 1 midi controller regardless of the output channel.

Anyway, thats just a potential usage suggestion, not a programming request :) How I like it may not suit anyone else, or be possible, or may be too much to ask to fit into this already mamoth project!!!

For the time being I have pushed all of the computers in my studio aside and have the sequencer hooked up in a little rack with a K2000vx, an emu proteus, and a novation drumstation with a Kenton Control Freak SE as the controller. All the outputs are being mixed via the K2000 insert cables and mixed into the headphone outs. The sequencer is routing all the midi very nicely, and I dont have to listen to any computer fans any more!! I havent enjoyed making music this much in a long time!!!

I see what you mean now I have V3 theres no going back! Ive hardly even managed to touch upon the pattern or song modes yet, but its still a beast!!!!

Will there be detailed usage discussions anywhere? I have a lot of particular questions about the actual usage of the seq? I know there is a bit in the wishlist, but im still a bit lost on some things, just a few are:

Group usage, ie I can use group 1 easily, but by track 5 I get no indication that the seq is playing nor can I edit the same as group 1.

Usage of the 17th track for recording , what will be possible, and how to see this feature

Adding program changes to a pattern or song

Theres heaps more, no doubt with more use my list will grow shorter, but for now can comment on any of these?

Thanks again for the help so far!!

John

[dcer10]

Hiya TK,

On the mechanical/electronic side of things, I still cant get my LTC to do midi out and thru, or the out LED. Any ideas on what might be causing this? The in LED works ok.

All the best,

John

[TK.]

No, I haven't any idea, the connections are really straightforward. You can simply test the module by connecting the Mi/Mo inputs of the LTC module to +5V/+0V in order to switch on/off the LEDs

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Hiya,

Im pretty sure its all connected up ok, and the LEDs work outside the circut, and as I said the midi in light works, but no midi out light or thur port or duplicate of IIC1 out. Maybe I will swap with another LTC module I have to test. Maybe something is dead on the board. Im not really experienced enough to figure out what it would be!!

Thanks for all the help so far,

John

[dcer10]

Hi All,

Is there any reason why the seq might have trouble sending midi properly to the SID? I can see that the signal is getting to the sid as the lights on the LTC are showing midi in (and the lights on IIC4 in the seq show midi out) but the sid wont respond. When using a compter to trigger the sid it works fine. Also other gear on IIC4 of the seq works fine too. Is this a device ID problem?

Thanks,

John

[TK.]

I don't think so, my own MBSID is connected via the MIDI router to the sequencer. The MIDI router itself uses MBHP_IIC_MIDI modules as well, so the hardware is similar.

The device ID is not related to MIDI channels

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Thanks for the reply TK, it is working now, mis configuration on my part :) Sorry to take up your time!

All the best,

John