Schaefer Panel Labels

[toneburst]

Mornin' All...

just a little question: How deeply are the labels (ie lettering) on Schaefer panels engraved into the surface? I ask because I'm wondering how practical it would be to have them engraved, but not coloured, with a view to filling them with my own colours of paint. Has anyone done this themselves? I'm interested in doing this for two reasons:

1. I'm anal about things like legending colour and want to choose my own and

2. I'm going to spray-paint the entire panel anyway, so there's no point having the labels coloured.

I guess the alternative to filling the lettering with paint is to not have them engraved at all, and to print my own labels on something like Lazertran film and stick them on individually. The advantage here is that I could use my own fonts etc.

Anyone any thoughts as to which approach would work best?

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[aileroned]

Hi,

I think Schaefer´s panels are like our panels.

The engravin is about 1/10mm to 3/10mm deep. The deeper, the easier is it to fill, BUT, as the engraving tool is V-tipped, the deeper you engrave, the wider the line will get. Therefore, for an 0.3mm wide line, you have to use an 0.2 engraving tool about 1/10mm deep in the material.

Filling with colour sounds easy. You will have to use the right paint, with the right solvent, with the right tools...with THE technique ;). It took a lot of time to learn, how, with what this works.

For aluminium, use something based on standard paint thinner, try the "shrink-factor" of the color, that you use. Dull colors for the fonts. Do not paint the whole Plate, as you only want t fill the fonts...the more paint you do on the plate, the more you will have to remove.

If you like to paint the whole plate with one color and the font with another... Use thinner laquer for the paint and something that is removable with alcohol, but not with water and oil/fat for the fonts. But I had bad experiences with laquer on large aluminium surfaces. Spray paint, i guess spray can, won´t make you happy. Eloxated aluminium or powder coated .. forget anything else. The only way this could work is to paint and then engrave... when you engrave a plate and then paint the whole thing...the engraving will be nearly gone.

Why do you think about engraving and lasertran ?

Cheers,

Micha

[toneburst]

Hi Micha,

thanks very much for your detailed reply :)

I was actually thinking of having the panel made out of plexiglass/perspex, as I want to integrate it into an existing C64 case (rather than simply bolting it on top). I'd then want to spray the whole case so that panel and original case matched.

From what you say, it may not be worth having the labels engraved if the text is going to disappear when I spray the panel. If this is the case, maybe I would be best making my own labels using a decal sheet type thing like Lazertran, and not having the engraving done at all.

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[aileroned]

Hi,

you´ll have to try some sprays before spraying your panel...some eat plexi, most are simply to weak.

I sprayed the panels before I machined them.... you do not need to cover 187 holes then.

(It looks pretty cool when you paint the acrylic and then engrave into the (hardened) paint.)

If you ask me, paint, then machine, if possible....

[toneburst]

Hi aileroned,

I'm making things difficult for myself ;)

The panel is (hopefully) going to be machined by to have raised sections a bit like

(I've obviously exagerated the thickness of the panel a bit here- call it 'artistic license'). If it was sprayed before machining, the cut down sections would end up uncoloured. Mind you, then they would be transparent again... put a light under it and it could look pretty cooool

Now, there's an idea!!

What paint did you find that was apaque enough to do the job, if you don't mind me asking?

Incidentally, why do you have to cover the holes when spraying the panel?

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[aileroned]

Hi,

its possible to machine acrylic like this....but ;-)...

You will see the tool marks in the lowered area. It´s very machine time intensive to make the surface look like polished or smooth and opaque. I would tend to handwork polishing in that case.

Painting after machining could need a layer of filler, before painted, to avoid visibility of the toolmarks. I´ve never tested this with acrylic.

Maybe it could be an idea to make the lowered, then the rised sections in parts. The rised sections could be glued or screwed to the large part. It would make life easier.

Maybe, step by step, like this,

- cut of the main part and the sections

- sections mounted to the main part

- paint

- holes and engraving

It would be possible to use satinated/opaque or colored acrylic for the main part and paint just for the sections, as you like ;)...but you wanted to make the whole thing look like one piece.

The holes need to be covered, cause laquer tends to build a drip on edges, the hole would loose in diameter at this point. If you try to get the your part in the hole with force, then you could lift the laquer at this point. Besides... it´s very painful to get the laquer evenly in all holes.

What paint...to be honest, i do not want to talk about that in this place, because there are a lots of different kinds that destroy acrylic and I do not want to be blamed using some paint that "is known to cause cracks" in acrylic ;). So I use, what I have tested and thats ok for me. If you are about to paint, give me a PN and we can find one that fits.

If you are thinking about letting machine your parts, I would be happy to make a quote.

Cheers,

Michael

[Mr modnaR]

FYI: you can also get texture spray, which give a 'grainy' texture before painting. i use this at work for car bumpers, where scratches have been filled, and would show up as smooth otherwise. perhaps the acrylic that has been milled away could be given a coat of that to hide the tool marks, and to blend it in with the rest of the C64 case. the rased parts should probably be left smooth to make it easier lettering-wise.

hope this helps.

[toneburst]

Wow,

thanks for all the info guys!

I'm currently talking to Schaefer, who may be able to create the panel using the latest version of Front Panel Designer, which is in beta-testing at the moment, apparently. I'll see how much it's likely to cost me, and maybe take you up on that offer of a quote Michael.

Some other replies to a parallel thread on filling C64 case holes make me think it might be easier to make the panel in several parts- a flat 'base plate', and laser-cut panels glued on top. This way, I can screw the circuitboards to the bottom panel, and hide the screws with the raised sections stuck on top. I'm also intrigued by Mr modnaR's suggestion of texture spray. I was wondering if there was something like that might be available. I'll look into laser-cutting services in the UK.

This is what I'm thinking of so far (it's pretty-much the same as Jorge's):

I was thinking originally of the grooves being arounf 1mm deep, but after taking some measurements from my C64 case, I'm now thinking nearer 0.5mm. Should I make the grooves between the sections wider to allow for the texture spray, do you think, Mr modnaR? I guess with the dividing grooves being so narrow, it might make it harder to clean up the toolmarks Michael mentions, and to apply the texture spray.....

So many options.

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[Mr modnaR]

depends how wide the grooves are really. if they're about 1mm, the spray should find it's way in. if they're narrower, you'll more than likely not notice any toolmarks. the suggestion of texture spray was really to cover up any filler that you use to mask joins.

[toneburst]

Gotcha Mr modnaR,

the grooves are around 1mm wide as they are. Cool cool.

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[aileroned]

Did you test the texture spray with acrylic ?

I had a lot of laquer and especially texture sprays, that built all kinds of hard or latex like surfaces... but most of them could be lifted in nearly one piece from the acrylic after hardening  ;D. I´ve never tried filler spray on acrylic. I think I have some around, we will see tomorrow ;).

If you do the panel in pieces, then you wont need to cover toolmarks... the small parts glued on top should be clean, and the large panel would never have been touched by a tool on the surface.

[Mr modnaR]

i haven't actually tried it on acrylic specifically, but if you use adhesion promoter, it should be fine. basically what that does is similar to chloroform, in that it melts the acrylic, only it just melts the top surface, which remains 'soft' for a couple of minutes, which allows you to spray on paint or texture spray (or whatever you like) after which it's chemically bonded to the plastic.

[toneburst]

i haven't actually tried it on acrylic specifically, but if you use adhesion promoter, it should be fine. basically what that does is similar to chloroform, in that it melts the acrylic, only it just melts the top surface, which remains 'soft' for a couple of minutes, which allows you to spray on paint or texture spray (or whatever you like) after which it's chemically bonded to the plastic.

Nice. Where do you get this stuff Mr. modnaR? I've always liked the idea of a rubber-coated synth!

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[Mr modnaR]

i'm not sure how doable a rubber coating is on a pre-existing case, i think it's made when the case is made, and they fuse that way. at a push, you could stretch a condom over your synth.  ;D

as for where i get these things, any automotive paint supplier should do. we use GB Refinish http://www.gbrefinish.co.uk/ if you call them, ask for Jason or Ty (i think that's how you spell it). i have no idea what prices these sprays are, i just order them and use them.  ;D

[toneburst]

I just got a quote for laser-cutting the panels for the top from 0.5mm PETG plastic.

£70!

I won't be doing that then (at least not with that company)! I'd still have to drill all the holes in the bottom sheet of acrylic too, so I think it would be better just to try to get the whole thing machined from one piece by someone like Schaeffer or Micheal's company.

Alex

http://www.toneburst.net

[aileroned]

Hi,

Is the price only for cutting, or with fonts engraved ?

As mentioned in the other threads, we do TKs layout for 110.-€ (plus shipping to UK) inluding the engravings.

What overall material strength are you thinking of ? Its no problem to use a different tool for the frames around the sections, so they would become 0.5mm deeper, like you posted in your second layout.

We use mostly PMMA (acrylic) or aluminium, but if you like PETG, we could give it a try.

Michael

[dcer10]

just a little question: How deeply are the labels (ie lettering) on Schaefer panels engraved into the surface? I ask because I'm wondering how practical it would be to have them engraved, but not coloured, with a view to filling them with my own colours of paint. Has anyone done this themselves?

http://www.toneburst.net

Hiya Toneburst,

I know there been a variety of answers, but to add to it I have orderd from them and the grooves are quite deep (I havent measured it but it looks like a couple mm at least), and can be filled with whatever you like. I used liquid paper to fill mine as it was easy to rub off any excess. With a steady hand you could use enamel paint.

All the best,

John