FM Patch Book

[jeb]

Hello,

Do you know any website or pdf or book with FM presets ?

I know there are lots of preset, banks, .syx, etc. for dx7 on the web etc.

but i would like to have a paper version of the patch in order

i can "feel" a bit how to create beautiful sounds...

(open each preset with a DX software + screenshot + print would

be a bit long....)

Do you know any FM Patch Book ?

Thanks

[sebiiksbcs]

That is a very good point! I would like to get something like that too.

So if I should happen to find something, I'll tell you.

[vedge]

Well, if we could just have a few people sharing presets that would be a start.

the built in GM MIDI kit is not exaclty making me want to play, that is until i whack some of those

with live ccs

[sebiiksbcs]

what is live ccs and how you want to whack them? please explain for non-native speakers. ;)

[stryd_one]

live ccs as in CC's as in MIDI CC's perhaps?

Make your own patches... Isn't that the point of a synth?

[/tilted/]

Make your own patches... Isn't that the point of a synth?

Here here!!

I remember an article about the FM7 plug-in (either in Audio Technology or Sound on Sound) with an anecdote about the proportion of DX7s that went off to service technicians with the original factory presets still there, unaltered! I don't know if this is testiment to the great DX7 presets *snikker* or to the (inherent) confusion of FM synthesis!

I don't want to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, and I know that FM synthesis is insane and difficult to comprehend, but stick to it, and just don't try to do things the same way as you do on an analog. FM synthesis is incredibly powerful, but if you try do do too much (ie, treat it like analog, LFOs and ENVs everywhere, full modulation of everything) it quickly turns to noise. Harsh noise. Take smaller steps, and FM can create incredibly lush and evolving sounds which analog just can't do.

Good luck, and have fun!

Sorry for the rant. **end of public service announcement** ;)

[stryd_one]

My big patch gripe is absynth v1's preset 0 (Does anyone remember the name? samething like 'generic SFX sound')... Has anyone else noticed how often you hear that?? It's everywhere! Very poor effort :(

[vedge]

My thing was

a bunch of presets can be used as is, but can also inspire us to tweak or make our own, getting a glimpse of what CAN be done, which aint the case for the default GM bank.

With all the crappy FM GM stuff we all had to endure over the years, i wonder why im alone :)

[stryd_one]

My thing was

I know, it's the standard "for" argument when referring to presets, and probably 80% of the peeps here agree with ya, so don't feel alone :) but you've missed my point...

a bunch of presets can be used as is, but can also inspire us to tweak or make our own, getting a glimpse of what CAN be done, which aint the case for the default GM bank.

Never mind what CAN be done... You should be thinking about what you WANT done, and then making it happen.

PS Tweaking != original, otherwise Vanilla Ice would not have gotten sued.

[vedge]

The most impressive stuff that we know can be done comes from the example mp3's.

I just wonder why some of these didnt become presets and thats all.

I did a few cool patches of my own, but there doesnt seem to be a single post where

people talk about making a default bank like the one for the SID.

I know there are probably only the tenth of MBFM vs MBSID users here though im not dumb :)

Should we start thread and and collectively make one?

A good set of presets is very important for a synth, but that seems like a taboo thing, since so many people despise "preset" lusers.

And editing a pre made patch that has 20 or so parameters is for me like making your own.

You can totally destroy a patch especially changing the FM algo. with one or two edits

Its not like it takes month and tons of research to create a FM patch, like a complex NKI or SFZ.

[stryd_one]

editing a pre made patch that has 20 or so parameters is for me like making your own.

When you have some more experience, you'll reach a point where you want a certain sound, and that method won't cut it any more... What you'll end up doing is going "I want a *Bzzzwhoofpinnnng* noise" and then you will sit and program an empty patch for 10 minutes before you even listen to it, then make a few small adjustments for a few hours/days/weeks to fine-tune it. That's making your own.

I'd recommend you spend some time with a modular synth and see how your current method flies ;) Keep in mind that when you say 'tweaking is like making your own', you're not just bumping your skills up a level, you're also depreciating the value of the efforts of people who really do make their stuff from scratch.

Slightly OT: This reminds me of a conversation I had with a g/f of mine. There was a transvestite on TV, who referred to themselves as "She", as trannies will do. My girl said something about them being an "it" to which I took great offence as I have tranny friends. I jumped to their defence. She then pointed out to me that by calling themselves "she", they implied womanhood, and that being a woman carries with it great burdens (menstruation, perverts, discrimination, etc) and that for someone else to make such a claim when they had not borne that weight was disrespectful to women who really have had those tribulations in their life. I pointed out that transvestites have to deal with their own tribulations, just as great if not greater, and she said yeh, fair enough, but that doesn't make them a woman any more than having breasts makes her a transexual. I couldn't argue and I realised she was right....

...So stop making out like you're doing something just as good as making your own, cause it's a diss to me and the 2 months I spent making my last additive patch for my k5000  :P

[stryd_one]

say you analysed the maths behind all the harmonics required for a sound

That's what I do, no fraud... There are reasons for that but I won't rant on.

OK, me STFU now. I am very opinionated on this subject (hah and pretty much everything else), I should keep it to myself, apologies. I didn't mean any offense, just got too passionate...

Hey your post disappeared :(

[vedge]

Im not offenced, :)

I'd recommend you spend some time with a modular synth and see how your current method flies ;) Keep in mind that when you say 'tweaking is like making your own', you're not just bumping your skills up a level, you're also depreciating the value of the efforts of people who really do make their stuff from scratch.

Dont you agree that each synth/app has its own degree of difficulty?

Creating one MBFM patch is not the same as coming up with a stochastic note generator, cellular automaton modular patch.

And yes, i had the most fun just sending CCs to the default GM bank, because sometimes you need to just let it go.

I design and program audio apps (and, what a coincidence a modular app) for a living.

For me  MIDIBox is a hobby (im a total electronics newbie and like to learn the "other side" of the trade),

and idd like to try the presets the others did, like i like trying out presets of my collegue's VSTis,

when i just want to play music and let the right brain sleep.

Its not because i couldnt be able to do "some" of them myself.  Its because i want to appreciate the work people have done.

The goal is in no way "claim you made them" (although again, lets agree on the difficulty level here), or diss the

hard work some have done.  Its the same thing with DJs vs Song Writers.  for me the real star here, is TK for his code.

That requires effort.

Yeah my post disapeared, because my i tought i had a better ansewer

original post for the curious;

But sometimes i just feel like i have a left brain left that just wants to noodle with presets!

(especially after a few drinks, i cant even understand my own apps :)

I dont mean that you can do a cellular automaton, a stochastic note generators placing random modules in a patchbay. But the parameter list of MBFM is so small, heck even with a random script you can generate pretty damn cool stuff, and with FM, by experience, its either youre a fraud (and say you analysed the maths behind all the harmonics required for a sound, then you placed the exact params, or you admit that you just random NOODLED with the thing :) 

Im not an FM expert by any means, but our modular app has a 2 op example FM patch bundled. 

Yes there are some that take the time to do proper FM presets (ENO) (and think about what they do), and thats why i asked in the first place. For me the MIDIBox stuff is a hobby. (even if i built and coded a MIDIBox to drive a SN76489 chip - that i hope to release soon after my zillions of other things). Somtimes i just feel like playing and not thinking (that also includes being a whiny bitch using a pseudoname) ...

Doenst that occur to anyone else?

[stryd_one]

Dont you agree that each synth/app has its own degree of difficulty?

True.

And yes, i had the most fun just sending CCs to the default GM bank, because sometimes you need to just let it go.

Yuck, GM.  :-X Heh

I guess if you're just playing around and not releasing stuff on a record/live gig/etc there's no harm in 'just letting go', but my personal opinion is that if you're going to present to the public you should take your music very seriously. Again, that's just my personal opinion, and I should keep it to myself, so I'm not trying to be pushy, just saying... I still will continue to try and encourage people to take it seriously, but if I can tell that we are coming from different places, I should let it go.

I'm just mad at all the half-*ssed 'producers' around these days (sooo many of them!) who just throw randomly found cool sounds together loosely and add a filtersweep or three until a tune falls out the other end... Now we've had a chat I know that I was mistaken in thinking that was your intention. You're not so much making/listening to these patches as a musician, but as a sound lover (I don't mean to say you're not a muso by that, I hope you get what I mean). I guess that my intention is to deliberately create a cool sound and making the cool sounds interact in a cool way (by knowing about why they sound cool), where yours is to 'noodle' or enjoy the noodlings of others and discover that cool noise at random.... So I guess we're not really coming from a different place, just getting here in a different way  ;) (Just FYI this post might give a hint at why I do what I do. Not Christianity, but certainly 'spiritual'. There's VERY good reason for the fact that animals love music the way we do, it's our link with the universe  :) )

Its not because i couldnt be able to do "some" of them myself.

No! I'm sure you could, or I wouldn't be encouraging you :)

for me the real star here, is TK for his code.

That requires effort.

Tooootally!! Making a patch, is nothing on making a tool to create the patch, just like playing a chord is nothing on building a piano ;)

I'm glad you didn't take offense.

Stryd_one

getting it wrong badly, with apologies.

[vedge]

I guess if you're just playing around and not releasing stuff on a record/live gig/etc there's no harm in 'just letting go', but my personal opinion is that if you're going to present to the public you should take your music very seriously. Again, that's just my personal opinion, and I should keep it to myself, so I'm not trying to be pushy, just saying... I still will continue to try and encourage people to take it seriously, but if I can tell that we are coming from different places, I should let it go.

I do agree with you, in fact i take my own music so seriously that i dont ever release anything :)

And our products are often in "perpetual beta" .. so yeah we are way too perfectionist to claim its finished in any way ;)

I'm just mad at all the half-*ssed 'producers' around these days (sooo many of them!) who just throw randomly found cool sounds together loosely and add a filtersweep or three until a tune falls out the other end... Now we've had a chat I know that I was mistaken in thinking that was your intention.

And you had no way to know otherwise.  Especially when I was acting like a whiny bitch wanting presets .. LOL.

I made quite a few presets for my MBSID, muting voices in sidplay, then sound editing and evaluating periods and wavetable changes.

Had fun doing Chimera/Master of magic -LIKE - sounds, and some others from Maniac Mansion, which to be are the definition of what SID music

was so different.  I also duplicated most of my patches legato and others poly, so that depending on what i need i have less "SID residual noise'

But ive mentally came to a point where i feel ive spent too much time on the FM already , just making the -12;+12 power supply with my very lame electronic abilities (altHough my sense of logic is not gone, and i helped finding an error in TK's schematic)  see

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=8510.msg59938#msg59938

Time to get reward.... So back on topic.... Who wants to contribute to a nice FM presets list?

I promise i will contribute :)

[sebiiksbcs]

For those who like to have some basic info how to stack and tune your C's and M's:

www.xs4all.nl/~galink/sy-prog.pdf

The paper has examples for the Yamaha SY-77, including RCM. We don't have RCM, and we don't need it. Also we don't need the SY-77's 6 operators, do we? I own an SY-77 and yet prefer my MBFM.

What a coincidence, the name used to work at my university...