Wilba

Another Aussie here... how many are there? It would be nice to gather a mailing list or even a forum so we could arrange bulk orders together. While I can easily obtain the common stuff quite cheap locally (eg. 100 resistors for $1.70 from Rockby) and order in PICs and other chips from Futurlec, it's a real pain trying to source things like rotary encoders and long shaft ALPS tactile switches. I still cannot find LARGE vectorboard/veroboard like what DriftZ and TK use :'( BTW: TK it looks awesome... yet another toy I need to make *sigh* ;)

Futurlec has them cheap: US$1.50 each, US$3 postage for <US$30 orders. They also have all the other chips you'll need for MIDIbox modules (CORE/DIN/DOUT/BankStick), cheapest I've ever found anywhere else. http://www.futurlec.com

I would love to buy these just so I had four matched SIDs... but I already have 2x SID 6581 R3 and 1x 6581 R2 and don't really need four more... SO I pass on this information in the hope that some MIDIbox SID gets these babies rather than some HardSID user ;) http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3706360903&category=38071&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 If anyone bids and wins, let us know how they sound... HURRY!!! Auction ends in 24 hours!!!!

I initially designed my quad-SID PCBs with this idea (4x combined CORE/SID PCB) but then realised it would ultimately be easier and more flexible to just make smaller/optimised SID and CORE module PCBs. (ALSO, I didn't know how to route the power and audio tracks to minimise noise, and wanted to support new features when they come... that's why I and others also gave up on the "single-PCB Quad-SID" plan.) Being able to swap SID boards in your setup and even swapping ports/pins used for CORE->SID comms... these are great benefits when you need to debug why it doesn't work! It's also easier to do application uploads when you can just stuff the optocoupler into a slave CORE and connect the MIDI In cable to it. My opinion is that the modular design is best. Don't view it as "so many PCBs"... in surface area it's not that much different... but your plan involves three PCB designs instead of just using/reusing two PCB designs. That's usually cheaper to make too, if you get someone to make them for you (check out www.futurlec.com) - ie. you save on the per-design overhead more than the very minor reduction in PCB area. Re-use TK's brilliant modular design!

I used a 0.05 inch grid in a drawing package to design the front panel, making sure that component pins were aligned to a 0.1 inch grid. DO NOT assume your laser printed artwork is accurate, especially along the length of the paper (ie. the axis that goes around the roller). I observed such a large error that I've had to rethink how to make an accurate drill guide (and print my artwork). The printer is fairly accurate along the width of the paper. What I'm doing now to compensate is printing my wide SID frontpanel across three A4 sheets, along the most accurate axis, then joining them up. The error across the page length over the 5 inch height of the panel isn't that bad. So get a good steel ruler, print out a 1" grid and MEASURE!

More info in this thread: http://www.skippari.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=474 I might try this on a Nokia 8210 LCD I salvaged (after replacing the screen assembly).

Steven: No, Bunnings. :P Scratches won't be a problem - Lazertran decal will be baked on, toner side down. Apparently this leaves a fairly tough coating on the panel, protecting the toner. I wouldn't make a whole case out of 0.5mm aluminium sheet... but this is just the front panel and spans only 5 inches top to bottom, and doesn't support anything except itself. I made mockups with paper and taped them to the C-64 case... they can withstand finger pressure (being taut like a drum skin)... so I'm fairly confidant the panel won't bend through normal use. Even so, I might just add some support in the centre just in case.

First up, thanks for the feedback. NorthernLightX: You could upload yours to the midibox portal site. TK: Thanks for the tips. 0.5mm aluminium sheet is widely available here (in Australia)... it's available in electronics stores for front panels on plastic boxes, but I got 300x900mm for $10 at a hardware store. I don't see how it can bend during drilling... I'm going to use a drill press. There's enough overlap around the panel's edge with the C-64 case to stop it bending when attached. I plan to glue it to the case, and the encoders, switches and LEDs poke through it and are mounted on a board that's attached to the C-64 case. Thus there is nothing mounted on the panel itself. This thin panel lets me mount encoders, switches and LEDs on a single board, the buttons poke through 3.5mm, the entire encoder shaft is exposed. (Scale diagram follows)

Hi all, I just want some feedback on this design before I proceed... for some reason I feel it's missing something... I know the space in the top right is a bit empty... any suggestions welcome. (In no way am I suggesting TK's layout needed improvement... I just wanted to be creative) A hi-res version can be found here: http://www.avishowtech.com/midibox/photos/MB6581_frontpanel_design_v1_large.png Design variations from TK's original: - Slightly taller frontpanel (~5mm) - The "Assign" encoders are (sort of) aligned with the display. - Added "Curve Assign" button/LEDs - Added extra LED to "Envelope Ctrl" group (so encoder can control "Curve" parameter) - Added "Mod Matrix Ctrl" button/LEDs to support switching of mod matrix mode (ie. for AOUT outputs or a second mod-matrix mode) Note: These additions use the unused DIN/DOUT pins. Construction details: - Thin aluminium (0.5mm) frontpanel with Lazertran decal artwork. (Aluminium is simulated in picture.) - Case is original (brown) C-64 case, painted black. - Knobs are black plastic (not as spiky as pictured), slightly tapered, 14mm high. - LEDs are all frosted clear (aka milky white) LEDs, mostly blue. - Buttons are like TK's - ALPS model SKHHDH (17mm stem height). - Display is Noritake character VFD (custom parallel interface, will require some driver coding). TODO: - only using "Curve" in envelope alternate mode - what to do with the others?? - fix up top right corner artwork Wilba

Can I assume that the AOUT module schematic http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_aout.pdf is final and order some MAX525 and MAX6007B samples? How do you get the +12v/-12v supply? Can you publish a schematic (or at least chips I should bundle with my Maxim order) for getting the -12V DC supply from the MB SID supply (C64 PSU or 15v DC transformer)?

I think TK meant pins RC.0, RC.1 and RC.3, since RC.2 is already used as an optional 1MHz clock for the SID chip.

Wow... Well if you're never changing the panel, there's no need for me to add any buttons/LEDs/encoders since they'll never get used in any official SID release. I'll post a design concept soon for some expert feedback ;-) Thanks TK, Wilba

Since I'm in the long process of making a MIDIbox SID step C (and redesigning the front panel), I've thought about accomodating some future extensions now - some that I might add and some that are still floating around in TK's head ;-) I'm anticipating some kind of analog output (to control an external filter, volume control, panning, etc.). Is this going to involve one MAX525 per core, so that each core (in a multi-SID setup) can modulate up to four analog outputs? Should I therefore add another four rows to the modulation matrix? Or is this overkill and I should only add one row and use CORE:J5 to drive my own quick'n'dirty 8-bit parallel DAC? I know this is FAR ahead for me (still in panel design/construction phase) but I'd like to have my panel design accomodate the extensions... Suggestions welcome. Wilba

Great work... wish I could see more detail... all that red stuff around the LFO/oscillator waveform LEDs looks cool... What's the stuff on the far left (switch, knobs, LEDs?)

Great work... wish I could see more detail... all that red stuff around the LFO/oscillator waveform LEDs looks cool... What's the stuff on the far left (switch, knobs, LEDs?)

eBay auction - Nice panel full of faders and knobs which could be good for a conversion to a MIDIbox. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2371221670&category=41479

I also have thought about reverse engineering the SID station patches to get some inspiration for new sounds (and try to get some of the Giraya sounds I heard on their website!) Since I don't have the specs on some things (ie. how fast the LFOs oscillate), I can't write a converter just yet - also some things aren't convertable without some clever wavetable useage (eg. interleaving an envelope and an LFO - aka. "lace"). But my curiosity has got the better of me, so I will write a tool to view the SIDStation patches in human-readable format. At least then we can see what they do and manually make a patch to emulate it with the MB SID. (This of course will be multiplexed along with MB SID construction and other MB programming tasks ;-) ) Regards, Wilba P.S. We need to locate and interrogate a SIDstation owner.

I don't think there's a need to get a hotter soldering iron just for pots. You should be able to solder pots with a 15W iron. There's nothing special about the leads, they're just often much thicker than other components. Pots are pretty heat tolerant. The converse is not true though: you can fry components with too hot an iron. My miscellaneous soldering advice: Get one with a small tip. Use very thin solder. Cut component lead close to PCB, bend a little to hold in place. Heat component lead and add solder to the joint. Do it quickly. If it isn't done in three seconds, leave it to cool before trying again. Don't carry solder on the iron to the joint! Exceptions: tinning wires, tacking one lead in place while you solder other lead properly.

I don't think there's a need to get a hotter soldering iron just for pots. You should be able to solder pots with a 15W iron. There's nothing special about the leads, they're just often much thicker than other components. Pots are pretty heat tolerant. The converse is not true though: you can fry components with too hot an iron. My miscellaneous soldering advice: Get one with a small tip. Use very thin solder. Cut component lead close to PCB, bend a little to hold in place. Heat component lead and add solder to the joint. Do it quickly. If it isn't done in three seconds, leave it to cool before trying again. Don't carry solder on the iron to the joint! Exceptions: tinning wires, tacking one lead in place while you solder other lead properly.

This is how I got my JDM programmer (for PIC16F84s) going (scroll down to section with orange background): http://www.talkingelectronics.com/FreeProjects/MultiChipPgmr/MultiChipPgmr-P3.html You don't need to change serial port settings in Device Manager. JDM doesn't work like that - it's not doing RS232 communications. Also: just because the hardware worked a year ago is no guarantee there's not a problem now. Maybe there's a broken track or bad solder joint. Use the JDM troubleshooting guide to verify programming voltages and IC-Prog configuration.

This is how I got my JDM programmer (for PIC16F84s) going (scroll down to section with orange background): http://www.talkingelectronics.com/FreeProjects/MultiChipPgmr/MultiChipPgmr-P3.html You don't need to change serial port settings in Device Manager. JDM doesn't work like that - it's not doing RS232 communications. Also: just because the hardware worked a year ago is no guarantee there's not a problem now. Maybe there's a broken track or bad solder joint. Use the JDM troubleshooting guide to verify programming voltages and IC-Prog configuration.

I have a question regarding the power supply for 4x CORE and 4x SID modules. I'm not using a C64 power supply, just a transformer with 15v DC output. I plan to model it on the diagram in mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf. 15v DC into a 7812 regulator, the 12v going to all SID modules. 15v DC into a 7809, the 9v into a 7805, the 5v powering the SID and CORE modules in two separate 5v/GND supply lines. What I don't understand in that diagram is why the VS pins of the J11 ports on the CORE modules are connected... there's already connected VS pins in the J2 ports.

I got it working, finally... ;D To cut an already long story short: I isolated the reset clock line - using a wire direct from PIC to shift register's reset clock pins. Problem persisted. BUT... I was lucky to notice some audio difference when I moved the logic probe near the reset pins. More debugging... I discovered that touching this wire (ie. grounding it with my body) made it WORK. I start to think my ground rails are at fault... then realise my fundamental mistake (aka. major F.U.) My power supply is currently on a breadboard, and consists of 15v DC from transformer going into a 12v regulator and a 9v regulator. The 12v output goes to the SID. The 9v output goes to a 5v regulator, this 5v output goes to the SID. I was connecting the 9v output of my power supply to J1 on the core. That's the setup that DOESN'T WORK. When I connect the 5v output of my power supply to J2, then that WORKS. By powering the core with the 9v at J1, it's going through the bridge rectifier before it gets to the 5v regulator, and that means it's going through diodes, which means that the ground of the core is actually 0.7v higher than the ground of the power supply and the SID module, which (I assume) means PIC outputs will be shifted up by 0.7v as well. Why that should matter, why the reset clock goes intermittant and yet the other shift register inputs aren't affected... no idea. I don't think it matters... I've got a working SID synth... hooray! ;D Regards, Wilba

(Wilba checks Meeshka's profile) Meeshka: You live in Melbourne, Australia. Unbelievable coincidence - so do I! ;) I've sent my email address in a private message, perhaps I can help you out. Wilba

I can only suggest my fix for low voltages: try using a 9.1v zener diode instead of an 8.7v (or an 8.2v substitute). That should increase programming voltage. The 9.1v zener is the only thing different in my JDM and what made it work! Make sure you're testing MCLR voltage against the VSS pin, not the GND of the RS232 socket.