Wilba
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Posts posted by Wilba
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I don't see how it could be working if instead of 5V you have 4.16V supplying the PIC. That's too low for it to even start up I think.
Assuming your multimeter is working, 9.76V going into the 7809 is too low.
Can you test your multimeter against a known good voltage, like your regulated 12V DC supply?
And is this 9.76V reading when using the regulated supply too? Because it should be much higher.
Possibly the LCD backlight current is interfering. Remove JBL shunt so there's no current being drawn by the backlight (esp. taken out of the "12V" supply before it goes into the 7809). Retest the voltages and let me know if anything changed.
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The PCB allows the use of two single-colour LEDs above the Step View, in case you wanted two LEDs to indicate "Step 1-16" and "Step 17-32". But that is optional, you can use just one LED like all the other LEDs. At the time of prototyping, TK preferred a single LED, and I made my panel the same, so it just got ignored and forgotten and maybe no one has ever made a panel with two holes there.
Gunars may be confusing Step View with the Beat LED, which on mine and TKs (and a few others I assume) is a 5mm round red LED, but someone sufficiently motivated could use a bicolor LED (common cathode) and connect it to J3... and then maybe beg TK to make the other colour do something (eg. red on every 4th step, green on other steps). You might ask why I didn't just put a 3-pin footprint at the Beat LED position - refer to my original prototype and how it was split into halves right through this LED, as well as the difficulty of combining a 3-pin and 2-pin LED footprint... i.e. too hard. But I left J3 in there anyway. My PCBs tend to have a lot of easter eggs :D
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Beer enjoyed *glug*
The current rating of a power supply means how much current it can deliver at that voltage. If the power supply is unregulated, then when the current draw is at the maximum, the voltage also will be about the same. i.e. for a 12V 2A supply, the voltage will be 12V or more when the current draw is < 2A.
However, this can lead to the voltage being quite high when it goes into the regulators on the PCB, which means the voltage difference between the input and output of the regulator is higher than it needs to be. This voltage difference needs to go somewhere, and it is turned into heat, which is dissipated out of the heatsinks. I know sammichSID has enough heatsinks and ventilation for up to 12V DC going into the 7809 voltage regulator (i.e. 3V difference, times max current draw of 500mA). Anything higher than that should be avoided - it will generate more heat than can be dissipated by the heatsinks (IMHO). I'm no expert, I just experimented until I was happy with how hot the heatsinks became (or rather, how hot they didn't become).
I recommend checking the voltage going into the 7809 (i.e. the point labelled "12V" on the PCB) when you have everything connected. That's a bit hard to do with the sammichSID fully assembled, I'd suggest taking it apart and assembling just the PCBs together and measuring on the bottom of the base PCB. This will give you a true indication of how "safe" your 12V 2A supply is... if the voltage is 12V-14V then that's probably OK, but if it's anything higher then you'll need to think about getting another PSU (sorry) or working out why the 12V 1A wasn't good enough... it really doesn't make sense because the 12V 1A should be OK. Compare the two supplies.
Also you should see how this voltage changes as you change the LCD brightness.... when the JBL header is set to "12V", the current is taken BEFORE the 7809 regulator so the voltage will be LESS going into the 7809 than if you disconnected the LCD. Similarly, the LCD brightness trimpot will have an effect on the current, and thus also the voltage.
SO.... do voltage tests on the "12V" pin, with BOTH PSUs you have, with everything installed, at three different brightness settings (fully anti-clockwise, middle, fully clockwise)... note also which combinations result in fully working LCD/control surface.
To give you some helpful insight... I have a red/black LCD that only works (with my 12V AC 500mA supply) if I set the brightness to middle position, any higher and the PIC doesn't boot and the LCD stays in "black bars" mode. I can actually watch it drop out (i.e. PIC reset, go to black bars) as I turn the brightness. I think you could possibly do the same thing with your setup. However, it doesn't make sense why your 12V 1A supply can't deliver the 500mA maximum current draw of a fully loaded sammichSID with a "high-power" (~250mA) LCD backlight. Doing the voltage tests might help diagnose what is really at fault... you might find it's better to use the 1A supply with the brightness at minimum, than the 2A supply (better in terms of the 7809 input voltage being the lowest possible).
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Excellent reporting, I wish everyone would describe their troubleshooting like that!
I can't be exactly sure, but it sounds like adding the SIDs causes the current draw to be too much for the supply, the 5V supply sags just enough to make the PIC->LCD comms fail on startup, but otherwise the PIC boots OK and the LEDs flash etc.
Try inserting just one SID, maybe you have enough supply for the one, and you can actually get control surface + SID working and prove that everything SHOULD work (i.e. the SID isn't strangely interfering with the rest of the circuit).
Try also REMOVING the shunt in JBL. This will turn off the LCD backlight completely, removing more current draw from the system.
I also suggest you check your plugpack rating... maybe you are using something insufficient.
i.e. is it 12V AC 500mA or 12V DC 500mA etc... quote all three values, the voltage, the type (AC/DC) and the max current.
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Excellent work... I like how you have used PCB mounted sockets.
How did you do the artwork on the frontpanel?
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I agree it's annoying.
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It sounds like it was OK, then you took the CS board off and installed chips and when it was put together again, you have LCD and switch problems.
Or possibly voltage issues, now that you're powering two SIDs.
SO I would say, revert back to the way it was first. Take out the SIDs and 24LC512 ICs (I would suggest numbering the 24LC512 ICs with a pencil so you can put them back the same).
Also check you have the shunts set correctly for the high-power LCD and turn the brightness knob to minimum. This will help you assess if it's a current draw problem.
Upload firmware again (with CS PCB removed!) to be sure the PIC is still working and that you SHOULD be seeing stuff on the LCD.
Then you can reassemble and it will probably work again. Then you can see it stop working by increasing the LCD brightness and/or inserting the SIDs, and then prove it's a current supply issue and not anything to do with shorts/breaks/bad joints.
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This might not be relevant, but sometimes my MIDI interface is in loopback mode, where it echoes MIDI In to MIDI Out... if a MIDIbox is connected when this happens, the upload request gets sent back to the MIDIbox and it stays in "black bars" mode.
At this point I'd have to point the finger at your PC/MIDI interface being the problem.
Try MIOS Studio 2 and see if that makes a difference, it could just be the fairly common "bugs" of MIOS Studio 1 (crappy Java MIDI library).
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Hi nILS,
My boards didn't arrive today.
You suck at the bulk order madness.
:frantics: :frantics: :frantics:
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Oh yes, sorry about that. I did check that as well i powered it on, and took a reading from 12V rail to the 12V labeled places on the diagran, with 20 on my multimeter. It gave 0,33V. So, is there something wrong with my voltage regulators? I used non-conductive thermal compound, and check the pins as well. There's no connection between them, or the heatsink (or at least it didn't beep). Thank you for the advices.
Edit: Ok, fixed on issue. now the reading of one probe on 12V rail and the other on other 12V place/9V place is little over 11V. Does that mean the regulators work and the problem is elsewhere? i tried soldering dc-socket again, but didn't help. I suppose the two pins have to be connected. Any suggestions how do i start looking for the possible 5V and GND shortage?
You need to test voltages with the black (common) probe on ground, and the red probe on what you're testing.
Please repeat the voltage tests, and report what the voltage is for the 9V pins, and ALSO what the voltage is going into the 7805 (the left pin of the 7805)... this will be less than 9V because it passes through two diodes. If there's no voltage (or insufficient voltage) going into the 7805 then it won't output 5V.
Still assuming that the 7805 should be working, then the problem is still (perhaps) a short between 5V and ground, so check solder joints wherever there are 5V and ground pins in close proximity. There are a lot of these under the 24LC512 ICs (aka. the "Banksticks").
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My best guess at present is a short between 5V and ground somewhere... could be between 9V and ground (you didn't report if the 9V was good).
You should check nothing is shorting on the voltage regulator pins, perhaps the heatsink is touching the pins, or you used conductive thermal compound instead of the non-conductive (silicone) kind.
It's probably not a good idea to leave it on for very long while it's like this, it might blow the 7805.
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POIDH! (I know they mostly look the same, but it's nice to see photos next to your other gear!)
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What he said.
Check your multimeter is working first. "2000m DCV" suggests you haven't set the multimeter to a good range, like 20 volts. 2000mV is just 2 volts, anything higher than that and the measurement is invalid, perhaps even showing "0" on the display.
Then start with testing the power supply is outputting anything, then measure what is labelled as "12V" on the voltage test diagram, it might be higher or lower than 12V but should be at least 10.5V to make the 9V regulator work well.
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I see no MIDI ports here... :unsure:
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Here's a ghetto fix for you...
You should be able to replace the pot in the pitch bend to something larger. Let's assume the master tune pot is really 100K. You want something that has 100K in 40% of the pitch bend wheel sweep, so 250K linear pot.
Now you can open up the pot, there'll be a resistive strip, an arc of carbon paint with a wiper on it. You can then (somehow) "short" the 30% on either side of the middle 40%... make that part of the strip very low resistance. It might take a bit of trial and error to get it working correctly, and maybe you need to tweak the "middle" position of the pot relative to the pitch wheel mid point (where it springs back to)... but it should work, and is pretty cheap
Check this out:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
you can bridge over breaks in the resistive material with copper or silver conductive paint, or make a custom tap pointOK now that would be the 1:1 solution... a pseudo-100K pot in a pitch wheel. However, if it really is a linear pot, it might just be being used as a voltage divider and some other trick might work better.
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19.22V at J20 is wrong. That should be regulated at exactly 9V by the 7809 voltage regulator.
I am assuming you (correctly) did not install shunts at JBP and have the shunt at JP set horizontal (8580/6582).
I am not aware of any way that regulated 12V DC going into a 7809 can produce 19.22V.
What kind of walwart are you using? If it is a switchmode, then perhaps that explains the voltage strangeness.
Also, check your multimeter is correctly measuring voltage. If this walwart outputs 12V then you should measure this first.
Measure all the other points as described in the voltage tests... especially the voltage going into the 7809.
We can work on the MIDI In issue after you get sensible voltages... perhaps this is also the cause of the MIDI In not working, the PIC isn't getting a stable voltage or the MIDI circuit is failing due to voltage not being stable.
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btw if you're interested, I can give you a spare control surface PCB (one of the black prototypes).
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You are correct.
Sorry I don't have a schematic publishable at the moment.
It should be easy enough to work out the pin assignments... most tracks are on the top layer.
Just remember that the left side is a MIRROR of the right.
i.e. D0->R1->LED anodes of two MIDDLE columns of three LEDs.
D7->R8->LED anodes of two OUTER columns of three LEDs.
http://midibox.org/forums/index.php?app=gallery&module=images§ion=viewimage&img=37
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This VCA is a good workaround to the SID ADSR bug... you just set the oscillators to A=0 D=0 S=15 R=0 and control volume through the SID engine's envelope.
Well actually you are not limited to just Env->Vol modulation... you can do whatever you like in the mod matrix and modulate volume. There's even a parameter to switch whether volume modulation will modulate the SID's internal 4-bit volume control or an external analog VCA.
V2A (Volume to Analog): Volumes are forwarded to external CV outputs as well (assignments have to be done in the setup_*.asm file). Note that the effective volume value behind the modulation path is taken - accordingly you are able to realize an external VCA to overcome the ADSR bug. -
You've cut only the 5V tracks... all the pins that should be connected to ground still are connected.
So when you test pin 14 of the SID socket (ground) to 5V pins at J3, it's showing as connected. That's OK.
You can now test between any of the pins connected to 5V (like the picture of the 5V tracks) and any one of the ground pins (i.e. at J3 or J4).
You'll then notice that there is no connection in the SID sockets, and hopefully nowhere else lower than your cut track at point #1.
Perhaps you should now refer to the first picture I posted, showing the 5V tracks connected to the power socket and the switch.
Start desoldering the joints connected to these 5V tracks. You don't need to remove parts yet... just take off the solder. Just use desoldering wick/braid to remove the solder and check there are no shorts between the pad and the ground plane. Retest if 5V/ground are still connected after each joint is desoldered.
All the areas around the pads on the bottom of the PCB is connected to ground. Perhaps there is a fault in the PCB somewhere around those pads... a tiny bit of copper connecting the pad to the ground plane. Use a magnifying glass to see if there is anything there.
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I can't find Edit or CC buttons described explicitly in the V2 manual.
They were in the original V1 specs:
http://ucapps.de/midibox_sid_csB.html
and then "reused" for Up/Down buttons for original V1 hardware.
Since I added dedicated Up/Down buttons to MB-6582, CC and Edit buttons now do what are referred to in the "Special Button Combinations" section of the User Manual:
http://ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_fp.html
- SHIFT + UP: CC mode on/off. In CC mode, a "knob" (rotary encoders within the OSC->Knob layer, or analog pots/joysticks) sends out value changes via MIDI Out, e.g. to your sequencer. The values can be recorded for MIDI automation.
- SHIFT + DOWN: EDIT mode on/off. In this mode, all parameter changes will be saved automatically into the currently selected patch whenever you change to a new patch. The LED flashes slowly if there is something to save in order to warn you, that the old patch will be overwritten.
- SHIFT + UP: CC mode on/off. In CC mode, a "knob" (rotary encoders within the OSC->Knob layer, or analog pots/joysticks) sends out value changes via MIDI Out, e.g. to your sequencer. The values can be recorded for MIDI automation.
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I think the SIDstick was already "teased" here before:
Maybe someone can wrap up that SIDcog core into a SID-pin-compatible package like SwinSID. Someone with more time than I have. :thumbsup:
Sammichsid : Problems with FW / Banksticks, **FIXED**
in Testing/Troubleshooting
Posted
Based on that data, both these PSUs must be regulated 12V output. Therefore you'll get a constant voltage regardless of current draw... so it's safe to crank the brightness up as much as you like, as that current is taken before the regulators/heatsinks.
Can you post a photo showing what you mean by "a fingernails width between the male and female connectors"?
It's possible your problems are/were intermittent contacts between the LCD/CS and the base PCB.
It only takes one data bus contact on the LCD connection to be faulty and the LCD will not receive the correct initialization and stay in "black bars" mode.
I advise resoldering the connectors, but let me have a look first to see how yours is different and if that could make a difference regarding reliable contact etc.