Flemming

Yeah, i know.. there's a lovely list full of the parameters inside the MBSID, but the controls i hoped to automate is the buttons and 'edit' knob on the 'minimal control surface', so it's kinda 'outside'. It may not be possible at all, but i just had to ask :) btw. i really love that TK chose to use NRPN instead of CCs ;)

Feeling a lot braver after finally experiencing some success I hooked up another SID to the core - now i'm in stereo-land :) I had to shuffle through the presets once more to discover what i've missed out on... i'm baffled :) it sounds even better!!! My SID sound fetish sure gets satisfied this way.... and a bit more ;)

First i just have to express myself regarding the quality of MB-SID ... It really amazes me :) playing around with the presets in the 'vintage bank', this box is so cool and easily competes with the commercial synths i own! I expected it to sound C64-like, and it can ;) but it does so much more. The list of parameters is overwhealming and the modulation scheme is among the most complex i've seen ever :) i especially find the ability to add modulation sources with eachother using logic functions to be of an extremely sexy character!!! In just a few days i've come to love my baby SID-box enormously! 1) I read somewhere that more banks than 'vintage' was available, but i can't find any... were more banks actually available? 2) I'm using 4*20 LCD and only uses the 2 upper lines. I would really like my LCD to behave as in the MB6582 (2 upper lines for info and 2 lower lines for 'parameter surfing')... Can i achieve this by using the MB6582 hex instead of the 8580 hex? (aka. how much difference besides the LCD setup does the MB6582 hex carry?), and if the MB6582 hex is a no-go for me as standard MB-SID 8580 user, did anyone before me create a 8580 hex for 4*20 use that i may have a copy of before i desperately throws myself in the arms of the source code?? 3) The NRPN scheme is just brilliant :) and i see that the assignable knobs have been assigned NRPN values too - How about the controls on the 'minimal control surface'? i don't see them in the NRPN lists :( if the minimal controls were available through CC or NRPN i could build a small VST to control my MB-SID, kinda like a virtual CS 4) When MIDI out is connected to my box and i turn it on i get all squares on the LCD. and it stays that way until i hook up the MIDI interface to the PC and start up a MIDI host... my guess is that the squares indicate that 2sec startup-time where sysex is sent, and when MIDI out is connected it badly wants to send, but if no port is open it cannot. As said, as soon as MIDI communication is open it gives me the copyright msg and starts up..... i searched for an answer and i looked in the manual too but did not find anything about this... but it seems like it's meant to behave in this way, is this correct ?? 5) I love the feedback idea and soldered a potmeter between audio in and out, but all i get is louder output.. I tinkered around with NRPN#8 on a bassline (which should set the filter to 'ext in') but without luck... now, without me having any kind of control surface (my box is still pretty naked) what is the easiest way for me to get to experience the joy of feedback ??? 6) I'm also turned on by the swin-sid idea :) as far as i have understood the case it can be done with my 1core/1sid setup... if i upload the swin-sid hex and exchanges the SID chip with a swin chip i'm good to go ??

First of all i want to thank everyone who helped me out! It's been quite a learning curve for me allready but it seems i'm beginning to move in the right direction, thanks to you guys inhere :) The status on my 1core/1SID/LCD/1bankstick project is: 100% :) no more odd behavior, it just rocks on and on... My problem was the regulator on the core :( having an LCD connected made it very clear - when i powered up i got the error allmost immediately, and i saw the LCD flicker in psychedelic patterns. Now the error was not periodic anymore, it was consequent :) I got rid of the regulator and slapped a bridge in it's place instead, but then the LCD did not run (i gave the core 5V from the C64 PSU, but some was swallowed by the rectifier). The trick was to bypass the rectifier also, connecting the 5V directly in the regulators place... now the core runs fine driving both the LCD and the SID module :) the SID gets powered by the C64 PSU 9VAC (going through both rectifier and regulator, but no heat problem there).... so finally my core, SID, LCD and bankstick is runing, and even using just the C64 PSU (something i had expected to learn in a year or so :)) This may be far from OPSU but it works okay for now with no 60Hz hum, but OPSU will definately be my next step so i can hook up another SID and enjoy the sweet priviledges of a stereo sound image ;) This is how it looks like for now.... i think it will end up living inside an empty C64 case

Stryd, i'm really puzzled too.. thank you so much for helping me out! I tried looking into that CAN/diode thing but i did not find it. I will look harder :) .....but now for some sunshine at last :) i was blind, but now i see!! I'm not quite sure what's up with this one :( It has really been like this all of the time, hard to work with... But i finally got hold of another one :) now for some serious debugging ;) Initially i can mention that i tested the new LCD without MIDI connected to the core, and i did not experience any reboots :) i will look into this tonight!

Hi m00 and Stryd :) thx for feedback! Yes, the two PICs are both PIC18F4685 from Smash - bootstraploader v1.2b, MIOS v1.9f Both have IDs with only zeros '0000 0000 0000 0000' I have stuffed all components from the kits onto the PCBs, following the silkscreen and the wonderfull help on Smash's site :) I would not dare to do it myself as i'm very inexperienced with components.... the LCD i'm working on again (i wonder if it ever worked at all) and you say it has to be done 4bit, this means that i should leave D0, D1, D2 and D3 unconnected, right ?? Now i might appear quite ignorant again :) but may i ask, what is BOR ?? the voltage stays at 5V also during it's endless reboot cycle, and the vreg only gets hot when it needs to deliver the 5V to SID module also - that's why i wanted to try and feed the SID directly with 5V instead of pulling it from the core. You are right about me not tinkering with the code :) i fully rely on the precompiled hex-files i download here. At times the SID app does work, but after an on/off i get that '[FF] System Reset' sysex message and then the resetting begins. If i on/off a couple of times i can be lucky to make it work again. The strange thing is that neither testtone or software loopback apps sends '[FF] System Reset', only the SID app ...... i'm not saying that the '[FF] System Reset' is causing the error, i rather think that it's a symptom of the error, but to be honest i'm pretty clueless atm :) That's also why i thought that it might be my MIDI interface.. i imagine that the SID app is much more demanding regarding MIDI than for example testtone, and that my interface just didn't cut it... it sounds lame, i know :) I also thought of bad PICs as the problem, but they have suffered no harm here with me :) also both PICs and cores show the same symptoms... It's not like i would love to pay for a new MIDI interface, hehe... i'd rather save the dough and go for a MOTU 8x8 once and for all, but it would be kinda silly because i have reserved lovely gm5x5x5 boards courtesy of nILS to place my gm5 SMDs on eventually... this will in general cover my MIDI needs for quite a few years ;)

More long-time testing... apparently my cores works fine! I can upload MIOS, I can upload the test-tone app and the software loopback test program - everything with normal behavior from the cores. I can on/off the cores multiple times and i only get the expected sysex upload request string every time. The cores passes 5V checks and can handle both banksticks and SID modules (bankstick and SID module does not change the outcome but to be sure i do all testing with bare cores) Then i upload the SID program, and it only works normal about half the times i on/off the core. The rest of the time it start to reboot constantly (if i connect a SID i can hear the startup-beep each time) and i get the sysex string (usually i can get to play a midi note or two here) and then it resets. I also start to receive strings like this '[FF] System Reset' sometimes when i turn off the power. Now if i upload another program to the PIC, voila :) back to normal behavior! The cores are two identical regular Smash cores (not connected offcourse :)) the above result is the same with both cores, also it makes no difference if i use the 9VAC from my C64 PSU or my wallwart to run the cores. I used both MIOSStudio and MIDI-OX to monitor MIDI activity (all uploading done with MIOSStudio, works great) I'm getting really suspicious about my USB MIDI interface (it's also the one factor where i can not test other alternatives) it's a 'Steinberg Midex3' running from an XP laptop. I searched the forum and it looks like other users are doing fine with Midex. I'm just about lost for ideas :) i hope to get a cheap MIDI interface tomorrow to test further..

The tests i did was with bare cores only, both cores act the same way. Also i get the same results wether i connect the C64 PSU 9VAC or my wallwart (around 12VDC) to the cores. I suspect my Steinberg Midex3 MIDI interface to be the problem (though i can send all 291 packs of SID app without errors) i tried sending with 1000ms delay, but still same problem; when SID app is uploaded it resets continuously :( If i re-upload MIOS i get a single sysex upload request as expected. I have an LCD but i'm afraid i fried it :( was too impatient to hook it up... only 3rd time the backlight worked, and now it shows nothing except distorted squares in glimpses. I'm not expecting to get it 'to work but i'm still trying :) if i got the LCD to work i guess it would show the copyright message and then 'ready' in a glimpse before resetting and showing the copyright message over again...

So i did a serious amount of testing... Both my cores act completely alike; When i upload MIOS i get a single sysex upload request upon startup, but if i upload the SIDv2 app my core begins to restart in an endless loop (if i connect a SID module it's giving me a single 'beep' every time and sending a sysex request) If i upload MIOS again i return to the start, having normal behavior and only one sysex string at startup.. I tried to upload SID app with 1000ms delays to make it behave, but still no cigar :( can anyone advise me how to get the SID app uploaded without problems??

Hmm, this is really puzzling me... now i have the core and the SID running off different PSUs, still the vreg of the core gets pretty hot... I started up the core and it gave me only one sysex request indicating that MIOS is allready installed, so i uploaded the 8580 hex file, and now i have the exact same symptom on this PIC also... as soon as i upoladed the 8580 hex it begins to spit out endless sysex strings :( i think it's rebooting every time because i hear a short 'beep' in the speakers... Am i uploading the 8580 hex in a wrong way? is it my MIDI interface or what??? This is the second core with accurately the same kind of symptom after uploading the 8580 hex... only that this time i used separate PSUs to not overload anything... I use MIOSStudio to upload both MIOS and the 8580 hex file

Man, i never meant to be personal in any way :) i just so badly wished for an answer not involving what pin headers i've used.. I deeply apologize if anyone fealt it was to attack anyone. I even wrote how much pain Stryd's advice saved me from :) My C64 PSU gives good 5/9 luckily, but i tried to feed the core with the 5V and it only came out as 1.5V in the end, so i guess that the 9V to SID will also end up a lot lower. The 9VAC can easily run the core though, so i can use my wallwart to run the SID :) If this is a success i will be running fine.. i'm testing atm That thing about bypassing the power supply components does intrigue me though ;) To do such a thing i would only need to connect 5VDC on the core where the voltage regulator usually puts out it's 5V, right???

Hmm, you're angry too... why? I'm sorry if i misinterpret some of the answers in this thread as patronizing, and i'm very happy to get your (very relevant) input.. but is it wrong to appreciate m00 for helping me? Thanks for great advice :) i thought the bridge rectifier on the SID module dealt with that matter actually?. I'm glad i asked Hmm, i'm not questioning recommended circuits? all i'm doing is trying to get myself up and running :) until then i can only read, experiment and ask questions to learn, right? It's not like i'm saying the optimized PSU is wrong! I'm saying it's too big a task for me to build yet, so all i'm doing is looking for an alternative :)

I'm sure you are right :) .... His advice about 'stripping to the core' did reveal my problem for me, plus it cured a serious headache!! Furthermore i learned a valuable lesson about electricity ;) it had to cost me a lovely innocent PIC, but that's life, you know Now, for the problem i'm facing :) I'm having 1 core module and 1 SID module i want to be friends - running them from 1 PSU have only gotten me a fried PIC :( now i will try to use the C64 PSU instead (as it's really 2 PSUs) but i'm unsure how... I would like to avoid the optimized PSU solution by now because it would be too big an adventure for me at the stage i'm in.. i would just end up here with lame questions :) so to prevent that i came up with another idea; Since the SID module is housing a 8580 SID it needs just 9V (which the C64 PSU can deliver) The core module needs the usual 5V (which the C64 PSU can deliver) ...now the SID module still needs 5V, and here's my concern :) should i take the 5V from the C64 PSU to take off strain from the core? or is it important to take the 5V from the core because of the current, ac/dc or what it's called? (i'm very sorry :) besides not having english as my main language i very much lack a tecnical vocabulary too, so if any of this sounds far out then please tell me and i will try to explain in other terms)

@ Cimo: I will have frikadeller today actually :) Brinck is so expensive.. the wallwart i bought there cost me 100DKK - today i went there to get a 7pin female DIN and he charged me 25DKK.... it's like 5US$ @ m00: Thanks for helping me out and not judge me :) not pointing me to pointless quotes, or assume that i bought some cheap pin headers and threw the gold-plated ones from Smash away all out of the blue :) i read somewhere that this forum was very friendly and helpfull - i guess it must be you that keeps up the standard :) thanks for quick and helpfull answers!!!! My plan can be changed :) if i power the core from my wallwart (5V) and power the SID from my C64 PSU (9V) it would be okay?? It would be the same solution as you using two powersources (well, it IS two powersources :)) But is two PSUs really neccesary?? Can't the C64 PSU power both the core (5V) and the SID (9V) without problems?? (i mean, it can power 4 cores and 8 SIDs, right?) And, my biggest concern; Should the SID module then get it's 5V from the core or the C64 PSU? I must say even though this is my first experiences with midiboxing i'm learning every day :) not just about MB but electronics in general - the only electronics experience i had before was from C64 modding

I built a new core, looks good, works fine... i took the PIC from my former core and stuffed in the new core, and it adapted the precise booboos as the first core - my guess is that i blew my first PIC :( My theory goes like this; i powered both core and SID modules from the same PSU resulting in 60Hz hum from the SID - i cranked the voltage up a step and got rid of the hum... but also got rid of my PIC :( the cores vreg did get awfully hot.. too hot to finger it. Now i'm pretty keen on not busting my last PIC so i'm thinking of a new PSU concept :) using a C64 PSU - could i power both core and SID module (8580) like this: 5V from PSU to core module 9V from PSU to SID module ... and what about the 5V to SID module? should i take it from the core or from the PSU???? I know 'optimized PSU' would be the best solution but i need to get hold of the parts first.. and decipher the schematic, which i'm very inexperienced with :) until then it would be so great to feed a single core/single SID setup! Also, my first core module got so much juice that it busted my PIC - if i measure the right voltages on this core module would it then be safe to stuff it with another PIC, or is it possible that other parts of the core has had damage and may end up frying another PIC ???

Sure, there's only a core and a SID module but i can remove the SID module and play around with the core a bit. I didn't get that header/quote#17 thing..?? The pins, you mean? well i just used the ones that came with the kit? a few places i didn't put in the pins though because some of them broke when i was cutting them.. Anyway, i'll strip to the core and see what happens :)

Oh sure, i know those... i got a few from Smash. I used one today in one end of an LCD cable...it didn't work out though.. i have to do it again .. But that's not the worst part... the worst part is that my beloved midibox still is ill :( sometimes it just gets in a strange mood and reboots constatntly (i get a little 'beep' when i turn on the modules.. sometimes the beep just keeps coming).. the only thing i can come up with is that the bridge rectifier got a little got because i was too slow soldering it. Would it damage the rectifier? and would a damaged rectifier result in such periodig error?? I checked all the volts on both core and SID module, and they're just as pointed out in the walkthrough... even when the thing is doing the rebooting (hoped to find some strange volts somewhere during failure) The core's regulator does get a bit hot, but still the voltages are ok.. i even doubleckecked the core's solderings and put on some extra tin the places i had been to cheap just to make sure (as the error is periodic i ofcourse suspect some kind of loose connection) Can anyone help me to diagnose my poor little baby ???

I'm not familiar with crimp connectors but pins are all over the place :) they came with the kit, so i figured they were nice to put on. I did not ground the audio in yet, i'm thinking of playing around with some audio feedback or an audio input jack... maybe both It would be nice to have a power LED also. I'm really impressed by the sound!! been surfing the presets and even though this is just 1 SID it totally rocks :) I would like to tweak the filter realtime from FLstudio, but it seems that it has to be done via sysex ?? hmmm, seems difficult. I looked at it in the manual but it looks very complicated. Did anyone make a control panel for FLstudio or the likes so i can tweak and record parameters ??

I found out today that my MIDI interface messes up a bit when i use MIOSStudio or MIDI-OX... well, maybe it's me messing up actually. I have to practice, i guess :) Everything works fine and i even enjoyed the 128 presets after i installed a bankstick chip too Thanks to everyone for helping me out building my first MB-SID :)

You're right :) it did come back to bite me... The workaround seems to be that if i upload MIOS and then SID software it works, until reboot :( Actually i think it's rebooting. i hear a frequent click in the speakers pretty much synced to the upload request sysex string i receive in MIOSStudio, and the core regulator does get very veery hot.... I use a 12V 500ma wallwart which i measure more like 15V with a multimeter. Setting it to 9V gives almost 12V straight. I will test this right away... at least i imagine that the regulator will not get as hot anymore :) Also i'm still very unsecure about the connection between core and SID module.. i did move the core j10 sc to md, but is that enough??

Okay, after a couple of uploads it let the 8580.hex through :) it works now.. i can play notes from the keyboard in MIOSStudio, so i'm now officially a midiboxer ;) ......or so i thought resetting the midibox it began to send frequent upload requests again.... where did i go wrong ?!???

WUHUUUU :) i made sound!!!!! Moving from core j10 sc to core j10 md made the testtone app make sound :) I immediately ran to MIOSStudio to upload 8580.hex but i think something is wrong.. after install it sounds no more, receives no midi keyboard strokes and it starts sending sysex upload requests again and again.... Funny that the testtone app worked fine.... hmm, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong in the upload process ???

Thx m00 and nILS :) the two modules seem to work fine then.. i stuffed them and uploaded the testtone app, but no sound is coming out (i guess the app is uploaded just fine because i only get one sysex string at startup) I suspect it's the way i connected the modules, which was hard actually :) the pins are not named the same... SID j2: core j10: sc sc mu mu clk clk vc vd (?) so so rc rc vs vs (?) md ...so besides i soldered SID j2 vc to core j10 vd (which i'm not sure is correct) i also have nowhere to solder md of core j10??

m00dawg, thanks for your patience :) It was me being very clumsy.... i did not measure the correct pins :( now, between IC1 pin 28 and 14 i read 8.92V which i'm hoping will be close enough to 9V. Now i will connect the two modules :) but i will positively be back shortly with more stupid questions...

I'm really happy to hear that my core at least behaves okay :) The link you posted is exactly the one i'm looking at.. but i never got to the bottom :( because i did not read 9V in the socket... and yes, it's a Smash SID module. It's powered by a 12V wallwart (i think it's called). It does not get the 5V from the core yet..