david.bell99 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 I am planning on making a several midi box’s to control abelton live I am going to start with a mixer type box, which I plan on having the following spec.20 Channel Strips10 Rotary knobs per strip (for volume sends and eq, etc) (I do not want and channel faders, I would rather rotary, it’s a space thing)I would like to have the level of the knobs displayed in some way next to the knob.So that when I automate the (for example “Volumeâ€) I can see the level change on the midi box. So the pots would need to be endless.I am not sure where to start as there a 200 individual controls that must send separate messages.Would this mean I would need eventually 2 midi boxes in one (I am thinking about the 128 cc numbers.?I also plan to add another box with 200 buttons for activating clips.And another box with 60 buttons for activating the mute, solo, and midi select button on the Live mixer.As I am sure you can see this is a fairly big project, and I although I talk about several boxes I will actually be putting all this in to one big box, but I believe It will need to behave as individual boxes because of the number of controls.I have looked on the forums and there is a great amount of information, but it would help if someone could point me in the right direction and let me know the best way to approach this, I am particularly unsure about the controler reciveing midi messages for pot levels etc.Thanks in advanceDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Welcome aboard!Your project does seem rather ambitious ;-) First up I'd suggest you take a look at the whole thing you want to build. Draw up a sketch and show it - this might help you to find some possible design problems early.Are you sure you need 200 buttons? I mean if you want to use this thing you would have to be able to identify each and every single one in less than a second or the whole thing won't do much good. 200 buttons is a matrix of ~14x15 buttons. That's a lot of buttons. * Endless pots: rotary encoders* Displaying values: how about adding an LCD display?* CC numbers: You could use differenct channels for the events, so event 0 - 127 -> Channel 1, event 128 - 255 -> Channel 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.bell99 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 ok so th chanel thing seems to be the solution to the number issue.I am assuming that by the talk of lots of buttons there would be some sort of issue with live managing to work all this out quikly enough. I did not realise there was a limit to this and thought you could have thousands of messages before there would be a performance issue. is this incorect? (I would not be pressing lots of buttons at once if this makes a diferance)the LCD display would be good however I wouldike to know if I can have an LCD for each knob, rather than a master lcd that changes depending on the selected controler.any ideas?Thanks for your reply by the way.Thanks again,Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 I was referring to problems on your side - not the controller side. A multi-core midibox can surely handle the amount of buttons you wish to have, but 260 buttons is two full computer keyboards - can *you* actually find the correct one in a fraction of a second? wouldn't 64 buttons (8x8) with different layers be a much better idea?Dedicated LCD for each knob: That's not going to work. Just look at the price tag - a small 1x8 charcter LCD display costs about $4. You want 200 of them. Besides a core can only take two LCDs at best so you're looking at building 100 cores.... You could use 7 segment displays but this would mean a *lot* of extra outputs. Speaking of pricing - an encoder will cost you ~$1. A button ~$0.10. Each knob for the buttons another $0.50. Just taking these few components you're in the $1000 range.Did you look at the size of the controller you want to build? A channel strip is usually around 3.5cm. 20 of them is 70cm already. Your 200 buttons shouldn't be any closer than 2cm or you won't be able to press one without risking to press others - that adds another 30x28cm. This thing will be huge. Sketch up the thing and show us a pic that'll help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.bell99 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 lol ok, I will do that. the multi lcd this is not a must I was just wondering, as for the buttons it is just a conveince thing. I might cut back on the buttons a bit and half the knobs and use a bank stick.i will scetch up both and let you see.Thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 The bankstick doesn't have anything to do with the buttons though ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxi Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 take a look to the MB-LC, Live is supporting mackie control, with a lot of feedback of datas from the soft, and the handling is weel designed (you rarely need to tweak so many knobs/buttons at the same time)and maybe Live is supporting more than one mackie control.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.bell99 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I will take a look at that thanks,so are you saying I can't use the bank stick to select banks on button and this only works with the encoders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'm saying you don't necessarily need a bankstick to save the configuration for you buttons ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 so are you saying I can't use the bank stick to select banks on button and this only works with the encoders.I think you may be missing the reason behind the name "bankstick"It is a hot-swappable memory device, used principly by the synthesizer apps (MBSid, MBFM) to store presets.Presets are stored in "banks".TK's are mounted in a "stick" made from a DB-9 plug.It is not a "stick" used to select "banks". (Like, a joystick)Though one of those would be cool...Or maybe a momentary-off-momentary type toggle switch, mounted sideways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkex Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I Like ambition!Correct me if I'm wrong but I do beleive that you can run as many lcds as you wish, only limit being your extra douts for the E (Enable) pin of each extra lcd?Anything is possible if you have the guts, time and/or a very very patient girlfriend ;DI just finished making 32 8 segment led rings by hand (I wouldn't recommend this as a day job)These would give you good visual feedback for your project, and they look cool around encoders!Get 200 led-rings spinning and your fans will prefer your midibox to the gig's light show :DBestAlex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong but I do beleive that you can run as many lcds as you wish, only limit being your extra douts for the E (Enable) pin of each extra lcd?That's mostly correct yes. You wouldn't want to use a DOUT for the enable pin, but a spare pin on the PIC itself, and you'd need a custom driver, but yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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