The Dub Master MIDIbox 64 -work in progress-

[stryd_one]

http://www.schickt.de/mbquote.php?id=17 hehehe

[DavidBanner]

re your cable - am I the only one who thinks it looks like a snake??

That would freak me out finding that cable behind a rack in a tropical country!! I'd be looking for the eyes and tounge!

[stryd_one]

Yellow-bellied black snake:

[img width=300]http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s118/Herpingphotos/100_1102.jpg

Just another one of my friendly neighbours. They're a lot nicer than the redbelly, those things have a shocking temperament. I hope your cable doesn't :)

[Foona]

you do realise you are shorting tracks with your clips on the lcd right?

I was lazy at the time of those pictures.

I asked my friend "mr.Helping hands" to hold the LCD for the shoot.  ;D

Besides there where no clips there when i tested it the first 20 times.

It was mounted on the panel.

also the soldering doesn't look too great on the LCD, maybe do those points again.

I have now re-done them a couple of times, with the same result.  :(

Have you considered the LCD display (not the hot regulator) issue might be down to the contrast?

Trust me, that was the first thing rhat came into mind,

but nothing happens when i tweak the trim-pots.

And im wondering...

D3 is supposed to be connected to +5VCD right.

So i used Vd pin on port J2.

And as iv'e stated a few times before, this port is only giving out about 1.34VCD.  ???

this is not right...

I tried measuring between GND and output en the regulator, and im getting 1.34VCD...

Now, is the LCD supposed to work anyway without D3 getting +5VCD?

Because of it doesent work without it, then everything else i do to the LCD is useless right now.

My Regulator is cooking and port J2 is supposed to give out +5VCD.

...i hate setbacks...

Im going to swap the regulator for a new one first.

<edit-add>

Ok so i tried measuring the input of the regulator.

I hook my probes up to it and then i hit the "on" switch.

Now it starts at 5.10 VCD and rises with the heat buildup.

when the regulator is scorching hot, the voltage gets to about 6.10 volts and keeps rising.

This is where i have to turn it of, the regulator is just getting too hot.

What does this mean?

Also i was wrong about the voltage on the regulator output and port J2.

Voltage is not 1.34 it's 0.34.

[cimo]

And im wondering...

D3 is supposed to be connected to +5VCD right.

So i used Vd pin on port J2.

err no! maybe you are talking about PIN 3 of your lcd?

i see you have a wire with a resistor connected to D3 on the core, where is that going?

So i used Vd pin on port J2.

??

[Foona]

err no! maybe you are talking about PIN 3 of your lcd?

i see you have a wire with a resistor connected to D3 on the core, where is that going?

??

I used this schematic.

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_lcd_4bit.pdf

Is this schematic old or outdated?

I used it for the MbSID and it works fine........ehm...did i assume something stupid again?  :-[

<edit>

"If a PIC18F4685 is used in the project (-> MIDIbox SID V2), the LCD is accessed in 4bit mode. Accordingly, the data pins D0/D1/D2 and D3 should be left open at core and LCD side (don't connect them to ground!) - see mbhp_lcd_4bit.pdf"

How the hell could i miss this?!?!?!  :o

aaaw maaaan.....

But...would this make my regulator go a beserk?

<edit-add>

Ok so i tried measuring the input of the regulator.

I hook my probes up to it and then i hit the "on" switch.

Now it starts at 5.10 VCD and rises with the heat buildup.

when the regulator is scorching hot' date=' the voltage gets to about 6.10 volts and keeps rising.

This is where i have to turn it of, the regulator is just getting too hot.

What does this mean?

Also i was wrong about the voltage on the regulator output and port J2.

Voltage is not 1.34 it's 0.34.

[cimo]

Quote from: cimo on Today at 17:47

Quote

And im wondering...

D3 is supposed to be connected to +5VCD right.

So i used Vd pin on port J2.

err no! maybe you are talking about PIN 3 of your lcd?

i see you have a wire with a resistor connected to D3 on the core, where is that going?

Quote

So i used Vd pin on port J2.

??

I used this schematic.

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_lcd_4bit.pdf

Is this schematic old or outdated?

I used it for the MbSID and it works fine........ehm...did i assume something stupid again?  Embarrassed

well i have to admit i am not sure about the need for it but i am sure you don t have a can bus on your mb64e, the pdf is relevant for PIC18f4685

dunno if pic18f452 supports 4bit mode

while waiting for others to clarify i would

-desconnect that D3 pin

-connect D0-D8

hope it helps

EDIT: foona the way you edited your post is a bit misleading and doesn t help troubleshooting

[Foona]

Im sorry about the confusing post edit Cimo and to all other reading this too.

Im in a panic state right now.

I have a gig comming up in like less then a month.

I would have been done a long time ago with this project if i had gotten my part in time,

but that never happens as one wish it to obviously.

I mean, i started planning for this project months ago...  :-\

I have 10 half finished Dub tracks that needs work done,

and i really need the DubMasta to plan my performance.

And as i recently got a new job, time is all i don't have.

So please bare with me.

Now, yesterday when i hooked the power up before putting any IC in any sockets,

i checked them all for voltages.

I had +5VCD everywhere.

I then turned of my DM and the PSU, i then proceeded with mounting every IC,

and then i turned it on again.

Something must have happened, because the regulator is hot,

and all sockets show about 0.34 VCD...

And this is soo damned frustrating.

Cuz i cannot find any shorts anywhere.

All wires checkes out, iv'e been testing them with a summer, and they all go where they

are supposed to go.

Ok so i had the LCD wired wrong, but i fixed that, thanx for pointing it out Cimo.

But now i do not want to put the chips back in, the voltage is to low, and i don't want to breake anything...more..

I need to find that darn gremlin!

[SLP]

ICs plugged in the right way?

Are you using the right ICs? (no joke, I once changed a 6851 with a 8580. gladly not the other way round)

ICs damaged?

Regulator damaged?

[cimo]

Im in a panic state right now.

42

I have a gig comming up in like less then a month.

i don t see how this can help troubleshooting

I would have been done a long time ago with this project if i had gotten my part in time,

but that never happens as one wish it to obviously.

not getting the part in time has become normality for me, dealing with it all the time.It s a good habit to take into account, delays and wrong components and such if you are in a tight schedule

I mean, i started planning for this project months ago...  Undecided

i started mine 2 years ago, sorry but DIY stands for Time, Money, Hair, which you will loose generously

now back to topic

have you already swapped the 7805?

EDIT:

Now, yesterday when i hooked the power up before putting any IC in any sockets,

i checked them all for voltages.

I had +5VCD everywhere.

I then turned of my DM and the PSU, i then proceeded with mounting every IC,

and then i turned it on again.

Something must have happened, because the regulator is hot,

and all sockets show about 0.34 VCD...

are you sure it is all you did between before and after the issue?

maybe you ve also connected DIN or DOUT or LCD.

desconnect attached devices to narrow down the possiblities (Vss and Vd pins should be enough)

[Foona]

IC where inserted right ways, i cheked thourughly.

And also the right IC's in the right spots. Checked.

How ever i have no way of testing IC's, so i don't know if they're damaged.

I have changed the regulator...and i measure 7.5VCD on the output now...and 0VCD at PORT J2...

Im gonna dissconnect all other devices now.

And then start measuring again...

<add-edit>

I have dissconnected all Vd's and Vs's like Cimo said.

Now im still getting a 7.5VCD on the new regulator output, and still 0VCD on the J2 port, so no changes.

Im gonna check the schematics for the core. Some other components must be broken.

<add-edit>

Ok so iv'e changed the regulator again.

Dissconnected everything, started measuring, now im getting 5,8 VCD out of my regulator. looks better.

At port J2 i get 5.02 VCD at all IC sockets i get 5.02VCD looks perfect.

Though the regulator is running a bit hot..not as hot as before, but hot enough to destroy cables kinda..

I then proceeded with hooking up all Vd's and Vs's.

After doing that, i get 0VCD at port J2 and in IC sockets...and regulator output fluxuates between 0.30-.056VCD.

So i procceed with dissconnection only Vd port by port, checking for voltages in between.

I discovered that removing Vd from J5B (to the second AIN board) removed this problem.

Now...what the h*ll is it that iv'e done that would give this result??  ???

Im gonna check the wiring for that board..

Still concerned about the regulator getting hot.

<edit-add>

It must be a male thing.

Never being able to admit that one would do anything wrong.

"Naaaw man, i know my stuff, this shit should just work, cuz I haven't done anything wrong maan!"

why do we act like this?

..well atleast me and my friends act like this..

Anyway, all LED's light up when powering on the MB (all chips installed except PIC and optocoupler),

is this healthy?  :)

Also im getting 5.02 volts where it should be.

Now im gonna put the PIC and optocoupler in, and se if i got the LCD wired correctly this time around...

I have work do now, so im going to save my utter and complete embarrasement for now.

But im going to make shure you have a complete essay about what i did together with pictures for you to laugh at.

I promise!

<add-edit again...>

Ok what iv'e done now is mounting PIC and Optocoupler.

Success..kinda.

Voltages are stable though regulator is still running hot.

I got help with redrawing the schematics for my PSU,

from people at Svenska Elektronik Forumet.

My current PSU is sett like this +9VCD, GND, -9VCD

Im not using the -9VCD now.

My new setup will loke like this +5VCD, GND, +5VCD.

The LCD will have it's own source pre core,

also the voltage for the core will be easier on the regulator.

There is alot more room in the PSU for the heat to dissipate,

and also, i have room for much bigger heatsinks to.

So i figured, let the PSU handle the heat. Hope it will work.  ;D

Well, something is still fishy about my LCD.

I fiddled with the trimpots for the LCD, and all i got from it was this.

hmm, it's not supposed to look like that.. :-\

[cimo]

My new setup will loke like this +5VCD, GND, +5VCD.

remember that you ll have to remove the core s 7805 and bridge pins 1--3

or

connect to J2

[/tilted/]

Hey Foona.

Is that picture of the LCD taken while still wired for 4-bit mode?

since you are using a PIC xx 452, you don't need to wire for 4 bit mode.

Furthermore, I think the LCD needs to be initialised for 4 bit mode.

At the moment, I think only the SID V2 app has this feature.

This means that the core will try to init the LCD in normal 8-bit mode.

So you should wire it for 8-bit mode.

The good news is that the LCD wiring is correct.

It could use more solder, and an IDC header  :P, but the point to point is correct.

[stryd_one]

At the moment, I think only the SID V2 app has this feature.

Nah it's built into MIOS.

That screen you posted looks like it didn't get past the bootloader.

There seems to be a lot of confusion here, if it were me, I'd start from scratch. Disconnect everything, test the core. Add one thing at a time and test test test.

[Foona]

First of all i want to thank you guys for the support.

Iv'e been so focused on the core iv'e overlooked something else.

Today i decided to take Sryd's advice.

But there was something bothering me..

Iv'e been noticing that the LED's on the LTC have been flashing randomly.

I kinda put that way back into my head, cuz the core felt more important.

I turned on the MB one more time...hoping i had a bad dream yesterday....  :P

Well..the LTC LED's where still flashing after turning the MB of..randomly..

...my first thought..

Disconnect the LTC board. So i did and this was the result:

Looks better like that :)

I gotta check the LTC module and connections now.

After that im going to rebuild the PSU so i can get some backlight to my LCD and less heat in my DubMasta.

I suck so much at troubleshooting.

I miss out on information, i leave vital information out, not to be a pain in the ass,

just because i tend to wind up to breake point.

I apologise for this.

what do ya'll work with?

Any chance one of you is working at a mental ward?

You guys have been so patient with me, it makes me wonder.  ;)

I still have bad juju in my tummy...

<add-edit--as usuall..>

Before i dissconnected the LTC i measured the voltage on J1 after turning

the MB of. I discovered there was no power getting in, so the PSU works fine,

as do the power switch on the MB.

So the LED's being able to flash after powers been shut of,

must be becuse of the residual power in the 2200uF cap on the core.

Or am i completely wrong?

[cimo]

Hej kompis

nice to see that READY message, things will work as they should but it can take some time and a bit of patience (i also miss the latest)

                        !!!THANKS FOR NOT DELETING THE THREAD!!!

Simone

[Foona]

Thanx Cimo :D

                        !!!THANKS FOR NOT DELETING THE THREAD!!!

Deleting my Thread?  ???

Regarding the LTC module. I can't seem to find the issue with the LTC so far.

Just looking over the connections i can't seem to find any problems with it?

Only 4 connections between LTC and Core, and cables are intact on the right spots.

MAX232 is not stuffed.

I'll have to pull it out of my DM and check it thourugly.

<add-edit>

Since i pulled the LTC out of this orchestra of boards, my regulator have running cool.  8)

So im leaving the +9VCD output as it is.

I have however rebuilt part of the PSU curcuit to output a +5VCD for the backlit.

And i am happy to say it's stable...kinda hahaha.  ;D

I have the heat problem back, but this time it's in the PSU.

The 7805 is getting hot, but i did expect this.

It's struggling with regulating 12 volts down to 5 so it's understandable.

But it seems the bigger heatsink is able to cope with this, for now that is.  :P

I will at a later time rebuild the PSU again.

..probably just put a extra 9volt transformer in wich should give stable +5volts after stabilisation.

This one would be devoted to the backlit on the LCD...just idea's in this state.

Any hints would be welcome.

Well im of to look over the "programming/mapping" of my DubMasta now.

Wish me luck!

[Foona]

Ok i hooked the MB up to the PC, ran MIOS studio and uploaded the MB64 app without editing it.

I just wanted to test if the PIC was ok and could revieve data.

Upload goes well and when finished, i look at the MB64 LCD and i see this.

Boot screan appears Thorsten Close MIOS..etc etc. then this appears and stays this way:

Those levels are fluxuating like mad, as do the numbers.

It's like its counting up and down, exremely fast.

Anyone that might reckognise this problem?

[cimo]

Those levels are fluxuating like mad, as do the numbers.

It's like its counting up and down, exremely fast.

Anyone that might reckognise this problem?

unusued AIN pins (J5 on core) to GND (i think MB64 has all pins activated by default)

Simone

(if i am right then you haven t searched properly, this is a wide spread issue, if not then unplug AINs modules if connected and ground the pins and let s see what happens)

[DavidBanner]

what cimo said....

as soon as I read your description and saw the photo I thought AIN grounding issue

[Foona]

unusued AIN pins (J5 on core) to GND (i think MB64 has all pins activated by default)

Im not shure i understand this grounding issue correctly.

Am i not supposed to connect AIN modules before loading the app into the core?

Before i dissconnect anything or even do anything,

i want to make shure im understanding what im doing.

So iv'e gone over my AIN to CORE connections thoroughly with the "summer" in my multimeter.

Iv'e checked every connection and wrote it all down.

Mabye you guys can se right away what iv'e done wrong here.

So my AIN boards are connected like this:

Please bare with me.  :-[

AIN 1 module port J5 connected to port J5A on CORE:

AIN1 PORT J5 Vd - Vd CORE J5A

AIN1 PORT J5 Vs - Vs CORE J5A

AIN1 PORT J5 A0 - A0 CORE J5A

AIN1 PORT J5 A1 - A1 CORE J5A

AIN1 PORT J5 A2 - A2 CORE J5A

AIN1 PORT J5 A3 - A3 CORE J5A

On AIN module 1 all inputs on ports J1, J2, J3 are used.

On port J4, only 1 input is used.

All other inputs on that port, are grounded to Vs on that port.

-----

AIN 2 module port J5 connected to port J5B on CORE:

AIN2 PORT J5 Vd - Vd CORE J5B

AIN2 PORT J5 Vs - Vs CORE J5B

AIN2 PORT J5 A0 - A4 CORE J5B

AIN2 PORT J5 A1 - A5 CORE J5B

AIN2 PORT J5 A2 - A6 CORE J5B

AIN2 PORT J5 A3 - A7 CORE J5B

On AIN module 2 all inputs on all ports are used.

AIN 1 port J6 connected to AIN 2 port J6,

and from J6 on AIN2 to port J6 on CORE.

AIN 1&2 Port J6 Pin A - RC on port J6 on Core

AIN 1&2 Port J6 Pin B - SC on port J6 on Core

AIN 1&2 Port J6 Pin C - SI on port J6 on Core

Furthermore:

Ive used Ports J7 on both AIN modules for +5 supply, and ground for the pots and faders.

All pots connected to AIN1 get +5 and GND from J7 on that board.

All pots connected to AIN2 get +5 and GND from J7 on that board.

Iv'e used this schematics:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_ainx4_64pots.pdf

And before connecting anything i read all info about ports here:

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_ainR4.html

And here:

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_coreR4d.html

Ive tried to be as thorough as possible.

Hope this helps.

[cimo]

http://ucapps.de/mbhp/auaimbctg.pdf

[Foona]

Cr*p thats the second time you've linked that schematics for me,

and i forgott all about it.

Im so sorry about that.

I might sound strange to you, but i do not completely understand this.

What else is there to ground on the Core?

Im using ALL ports on both AIN boards.

The unused pins on the J4 port on AIN1 is grounded..like the schematic say, so at least that is right i think.

As i understand it, if a port is unused, you ground the corresponding pin on the Core for that port?

man, im feeling so stupid, cuz i can't see what iv'e done wrong...and i don't know

how anyone could explain it even more.

Cuz this schematic is allready doing that.

It's just that i can't grasp it.  :-[

Am i not supposed to use ports J5A and J5B?

Am i supposed to use port J5 on the core?

'

But atleast i understand that I have done something wrong.

I just can't grasp it.

[Foona]

wait...i haven't grounded the unused inputs to J7...only to Vs on port J4.

Is that it?

[cimo]

FITTA FAN !

Foona, i had the same issue 10000000 times, i checked, rechecked, rerechcecked , rechrekehed

all i did was messing up with the pins, reflowing solder joints, standing up, getting nervous and so on..

maybe all you need is going out a bit, maybe visit systembolaget and call up some friends ;)

READ Stryd_one golden rules!!

You need to check everytime you make a new step so it s much more easier to troubleshoot, for example, testing the CORE before plugging AINs, it may be smarter to rebuild MB64 with pots=0

if you don t use headers so there is no need to ground pins

If all is ok then plug the first AIN (assemble with pots=32 MUXED)

and so on

If you are using a midi monitor such as MIDIOX you could eventually see which AIN is jittering, in case it is just 1 or 2 pots jittering.

Too many small details can cause the jittering problem, it is up to you to setup a troubleshooting workflow and find the issue, you went all this way man! You certainly have the skills to fix it.

wait...i haven't grounded the unused inputs to J7...only to Vs on port J4.

Is that it?

ok

go here

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_coreR4d.html

and here:

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_ainR4.html

read carefully i couldn t explain it any better

Simone