Valant Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hey guys. I was wondering if I could connect the DOUT module to http://cubloc.com/product/01_03ssr8.php this board? Is the DOUT voltage high enough? Do I still need resistors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebiiksbcs Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Welcome to the midibox forum!- Input volt: 4~32VDC Sounds like the DOUT with its 5VDC is suitable. I am not an expert though, maybe the current is not enough? One DOUT output can supply up to about 25mA as far as I know.*If you are using 5V I/O ports or other MCUs, you will need a 24V TR Outputcircuit: like this using a photocoupler for the Relay4 Board. The SSR4Board may accept 4-24V for S/N.Whatever that means... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I can't speak for your specific example, as the manual linked by Comfile is actually for a different product ::) , and in any event does not mention the control current. Generally with solid state relays you have an optocoupler circuit which isolates your control circuit from your switched device.In the case of the SSR8 board linked, it is an optoisolated triac control device, therefore it is for AC devices only.The control current of these is typically around the 10-20mA mark, so you should be fine.Edit: Yes, you should keep the resistors, to limit current from your 595s.Since you will be controlling AC (presumably mains), normal caveats apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valant Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Excellent. Thanks for your help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientOne Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Tilted has got it right: from the input side, most SSR's look like a LED. Most modern ones have current limiting - these typically will say "3 to 32V" on the label, so they will work with both logic systems and PLC's, (industrial Programmable Logic Controllers tend to have 24 Volt outputs).Most draw about 5 to 10 mA.A minor warning about some of the cheaper ones - they have a minimum load requirement - if the AC power load is less than (say) 10mA, half cycling and flickering will occur. Half cycling is due the the triac in the SSR having different sensitivities in the different 'cycle quadrants', and so latching on as it should in the positive half cycles, but dropping out in the negative ones. It's worth checking the spec' to make sure that they match your requirements properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valant Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Welcome to the midibox forum!Thanks :DIn the case of the SSR8 board linked, it is an optoisolated triac control device, therefore it is for AC devices only. Can regular relays with moving parts handle DC?Since you will be controlling AC (presumably mains), normal caveats apply.I'm a little worried about entrusting my life to a little board that would have 8 live mains going into it... What's the best/most practical way to protect the circuit and myself? And is it possible that a lot of moisture could cause the circuit to arc?A minor warning about some of the cheaper ones - they have a minimum load requirement - if the AC power load is less than (say) 10mA, half cycling and flickering will occur. Half cycling is due the the triac in the SSR having different sensitivities in the different 'cycle quadrants', and so latching on as it should in the positive half cycles, but dropping out in the negative ones. It's worth checking the spec' to make sure that they match your requirements properly. Understood.How about this one? http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm The board is powered by a 12V external supply, but (correct me if I'm wrong) could that harm the DOUT or the core, which are powered by 5V?Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Can regular relays with moving parts handle DC?Yes, some relays can handle DC. You want to be very aware of how much current you plan to pull throught the contacts, and of your switched supply voltage.I'm a little worried about entrusting my life to a little board that would have 8 live mains going into it... What's the best/most practical way to protect the circuit and myself? And is it possible that a lot of moisture could cause the circuit to arc?If you are a total beginner, the best way to protect your circuit and yourself is to leave the mains alone. Sorry, but it is that simple. Find yourself a friend who knows what they're doing and get them to do it.How about this one? http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm The board is powered by a 12V external supply, but (correct me if I'm wrong) could that harm the DOUT or the core, which are powered by 5V?This board is designed for use with a computer parallel port. It's not really the same thing.My questions for you are:What do you need to control?Do you really need to involve the mains? I mean really?Is there any way you can reduce the voltage/current requirements, rather than working around them?- Without this info, I can't really give you a solid answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valant Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 If you are a total beginner, the best way to protect your circuit and yourself is to leave the mains alone. Sorry, but it is that simple. Find yourself a friend who knows what they're doing and get them to do it.I have plenty of experience in low-voltage DC, but not high voltage AC.What do you need to control?I need to be able to switch light bulbs using MIDI messages: strobe lights, regular lights, etc. Mainly incandescent bulbs.Do you really need to involve the mains? I mean really?There seemed to be no way around it. I had my mind set on using incandescent bulbs anyways, and to my knowledge the only way to use them is through mains... or is it?Is there any way you can reduce the voltage/current requirements, rather than working around them?LED bulbs maybe? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.I apologize if I'm giving anyone a hard time D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientOne Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Ideas:1) build a MIDI -> DMX interface. Buy commercial DMX dimmer/relay packs. Chauvet do them, they are cheap, (though Chauvet are a bit like the Behringer of the lighting world). Nearly all commercial light controllers are DMX.2) Following on from the above, Buy a USB DMX interface, and drive it through a PC/Laptop with a custom MIDI controller.3) There are a lot of MIDI light controller designs out there on the web, but all require you to learn good safe mains control procedures.4) see if there is a good industrial panel builder in your locality. get them to build your mains control box and certify it. You can provide a tested MIDI controller, (all it has to be able to do is turn on LED's), in a module case, that they can wire in. This is a standard way of working.If you are in the UK, I might be able to help, though due to public liability issues, I'm not doing that on line. That being said, with care, a simple SSR box is not hard. The pictures attached show an old one of mine. It needs an update in that I used a 5 pin DIN connector as input, the switch letting me select 1 of 4 channels of plain hard wired drive, (all my old lightshow gear used DIN's to keep the cost down), note the recycled heat sink! In those days I had no MIDI, and used the 270o DIN for power, and the 180o for control. I'm going to change to another plug to avoid confusion, though plugging a MIDI plug into the socket on here would be completely safe, only 1 pin at a time is connected. +5V with respect to ground (Pin 3), turned the SSR on. I did other boxes with 4 SSR's, though I think they found a final resting place in a club in Manchester when I stopped doing that sort of mobile stuff, years ago. A design using modern mains out connectors would not be hard, though the hardware cost would not be that cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientOne Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 This relay board is not bad, and the 'dry' contacts can be used for things like operating projectors.Velleman Relay board from Rapid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valant Posted April 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 If you are in the UK, I might be able to help, though due to public liability issues, I'm not doing that on line. Thanks for the offer dude, but unfortunately I live in the US D:That relay seems like the best I've seen so far. If only it didn't come from overseas...The problem with DMX for me is that it's so darn expensive. That's why I went with DIY MIDI.Thanks for your suggestions! I'm going to look into building a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientOne Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Thanks for the offer dude, but unfortunately I live in the US D:That relay seems like the best I've seen so far. If only it didn't come from overseas...Velleman have a US division, and a dealer locator. They list a 4 channel triac driver, and a 4 as well as an 8 channel relay board. The 8 way relay board had a wireless remote option: hack the controller using some opto's from the MIDI and you've got a remote light controller. SSR's are better for lighting; they use zero-voltage switching and thus don't produce mains interference that gets into your sound systemVelleman US siteHope this helpsMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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