dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 In my tiny controller i'm planning to use TQFP 18f452. It is 44 pins surface mount. What tools i need to program the pic ? i can't find the infos how to install the Bootstrap LoaderAnyone here can do this ?Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Same deal, scope the datasheet :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Same deal, scope the datasheet :)That was the first thing i did but i did not found any solution at all in the 332 pages. I'll use PicKit2 but can't use a socket for this kind of pic. Do i need to make my own programming board for the pic, then soldering the required pic pins, then program the pic and then desoldering the pic ?Thanks!I wish i could write better in english :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimo Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 i ve read somewhere that you may go without soldering, only the pressure should be enough but yeah you ll need and adapter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 i ve read somewhere that you may go without soldering, only the pressure should be enough but yeah you ll need and adapter..Or, i could install a connector directly on the my controller PCB ? like this, i'll burn the pic directly without playing around with the pic.Thanks cimo, i'll take a look at this adpator... who do this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seppoman Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't have much experience in regard to PIC in system programming - older versions of the core layout and the JDM programmer had headers for that use. In general, I guess you have the option of either using a TQFP swappable socket (very expensive) on a programmer pcb, or putting an ISP connector onto your pcb for flashing the bootloader. An ISP connector is 2x5 pins, so with that solution you're losing at least half of the pcb area you gained by going SMT.S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 i ve read somewhere that you may go without soldering, only the pressure should be enough but yeah you ll need and adapter..This ?http://smt-adapter.biz/Part/ZIF-QFP-TQFP-breadboarding-adapters,44QFS31A-PG-ZL-S.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimo Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 This ?http://smt-adapter.biz/Part/ZIF-QFP-TQFP-breadboarding-adapters,44QFS31A-PG-ZL-S.htmwtf? looks like an evil PIC eater see:http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,11871.msg96457.html#msg96457wow for 180$ i will morse code the BSL for you in the PIC..no, i meant that you can make a pcb with the tqtf foot print lay out the necessary pins and just by applying some pressure to the ic contact MAY be achieved: this is the poor man solution, if you got cash buy and adapter.Simone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 wtf? looks like an evil PIC eater see:http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,11871.msg96457.html#msg96457wow for 180$ i will morse code the BSL for you in the PIC..no, i meant that you can make a pcb with the tqtf foot print lay out the necessary pins and just by applying some pressure to the ic contact MAY be achieved: this is the poor man solution, if you got cash buy and adapter.Simone ;DI wont buy the adaptor, i'll built a simple tool to do the job instead.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Euh! this one is nice :TQFP to 40 DIP socket.180$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Problem solved Most of my problem is solved for 12.99$ on Ebay.For that price i'm getting 2pcs SMD Microchip PIC 18F4520 And 2pcs TQFP To DIP PCB (this not like the image above)Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimo Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 sweet what about sharing the link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 sweet what about sharing the link?Sure Electronics Ebay storehttp://stores.ebay.com/Sure-Electronics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Thanks d!Problem solved Most of my problem is solvedLOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 hmmm i think those contacts will have to be treated somehow for this to work well, solder surface will oxidize and make bad contacts. maybe going over it w/ silver solder or likesuchas would work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimo Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 what about sand paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 hmmm i think those contacts will have to be treated somehow for this to work well, solder surface will oxidize and make bad contacts. maybe going over it w/ silver solder or likesuchas would work...I'll check that.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBunsen Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 There's a kind of contact cleaning pen you can get - it's filled with some non-destructive cleaning fluid and the tip is fine abrasive nylon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I wont solder the PIC on the adaptor, i will only apply good pressure with a tool i'm gonna make for it, the tool will also align the pic on the smd pads. The only purpose is to load the bootloader into the pic, only one time. Then, i solder ths pic on his PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I can suggest something a lot cheaper and easier..When you design your board with the 18F452TQFP, add a six pin header for the PICKit2. If you check the documents that came with the PICKit, it should offer some pointers on how to set it up. Basically you need to make sure that whatever other things that are connected to the programming pins won't interfere with programming. Then build the board solder the PIC onto it, and when you're ready to program it, just plug the PICStart2 onto the header and shoot the bootloader in there. Total cost, a six-pin header for each board made. That's easier than trying to buy a big-bucks adapter!Have Fun,LyleHaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I was thinking to do this first in my post but the space is not available on my pcb. Really tight space, that's why i use smd pic. I already ordered the adaptors from Ebay, it includes 2 Pic 18f452 for few bucks. :-)Thanks for suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Are there connectors on your board for other stuff?PICKit2 requires access to the PGC and PGD pins. these usually go to the LCD display port. It also needs Vdd and Vss, those go to the LCD display too. So the only pin you need that is "out of reach" is the VPP/MCLR pin.IF your project has a connector for a LCD display, that should include 4 of the 5 pins you need to connect the PICKit2. Just add loose wire with a clip to grab one end of the pullup resistor on MCLR, and you can program it through the LCD port. Unless the pullup resistor is also SMT.Have Fun,LyleHaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstamand Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Are there connectors on your board for other stuff?PICKit2 requires access to the PGC and PGD pins. these usually go to the LCD display port. It also needs Vdd and Vss, those go to the LCD display too. So the only pin you need that is "out of reach" is the VPP/MCLR pin.IF your project has a connector for a LCD display, that should include 4 of the 5 pins you need to connect the PICKit2. Just add loose wire with a clip to grab one end of the pullup resistor on MCLR, and you can program it through the LCD port. Unless the pullup resistor is also SMT.Have Fun,LyleHazeI see, 5 pin is required to program the Pic, i'll check for a 3 pin smt header only because Vdd and VSS are available many places on my PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 IIRC there's a reason why MBHP cores don't support ICSP.... But uhm...I can't remember.... TK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 IIRC there's a reason why MBHP cores don't support ICSP.... But uhm...I can't remember.... TK?For a start, you'd want to avoid mounting R1, the #MCLR pull-up.As it is only 100R, you'd find you have some power supply issues if you feed the #MCLR pin 12.5 volts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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