MIDIbox SEQ - Things start to clear - some questions [solved for now]

[gjvti]

Hello there. I just discovered this lovely midibox seq project and it looks to me something similar (a smaller hardware brother) to Sugarbytes Thesys soft sequencer - is this correct? If it is so, I'd be very interested to build one, but from what I read here, I'm still confused.

1) is there a complete parts list which are required to build fully functional MidiboxSEQ device or there are only just some hints on the bottom of this page? http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_seq_manual_m.html Although I used to solder cables and write some scripts in perl I'm actually not qualified to build schematics or programm microprocessors. Is there any chance for me to build such device without qualificatoin of electronics engineer?

2) I also checked this page http://www.mikes-elektronikseite.de/mshop_deutsch/k001u002s001.htm and found that they offer MidiboxSEQ V3 kit. Anyone is aware what is included in that kit and what is missing (should be found somewhere else). And also what is the difference between V3 and V4. Can V3 be upgraded to V4 and what is required then?

Best regards

gj

Edited January 25, 2010 by gjvti

[philetaylor]

the MBHP (MIDIbox Hardware Platform) is a range of modules that can be used to create numerous MIDI capable hardware devices. One of these is the MIDIboxSeq.

Mike offers a bundle of all of the MBHP kits that you will need to build a MIDIboxSeq V3 BUT this doesn't include any switches/encoders/LED's/LCD's or a case/front panel. These would need to be purchased seperately.

You can also buy the individual kits from SmashTV (in the USA).

There is also Wilba's MB-Seq which is a very neat front panel design and PCB http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_seq'>http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_seq there will be a fully cased kit that will be available at some time in the future. The beauty of this design is the PCB has all of the necessary DIN/DOUT modules so only requires a single connection to the CORE module.

The difference between V3 and V4 is which MBHP_CORE is being used (the brains of a MIDIbox). All versions up to and including V3 used the PIC based CORE8 whereas V4 is based on the new STM32 based CORE32 (much quicker, much more memory). As all other MBHP modules are compatible, the upgrade from V3 to V4 is simply to swap the boards over (and re-wire the LCD connection as this has changed).

There is lots and lots of information about all of the MIDIbox projects at http://www.ucapps.de http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/ and on this forum but some of it does take a bit of digging to find!

Thanks

Phil

[gjvti]

Hello, and thanks for reply!

It is still pretty complicated :)

Wilba's MB-Seq version definitely look neat, but I still don't

understand how I can benefit from that or participate. Also it looks

that bulk order project has stuck for a year now. Obviously midibox SEQ

is only form all midi box projects in which I am really interested.

So from what I have read for past few hours I understand that to

build midibox SEQ V4 I need to order the following:

1) ONE "MIDIbox SEQ V3 kit" Art.-Nr.: Set-009 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (60Eur)

=> includes 1 x MBHP_CORE, 3 x MBHP_DINX4, 1 x MBHP_DOUTX4, 1 x MBHP_IIC-midimodule

without PIC and throw away MBHP_CORE parts since they are not used in V4

2) THREE extra "MBHP_IIC-midimodule" Art.-Nr.: Kit-007 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (13.30Eur each) if I want to have 4 midi outs

3) ONE "Core32 parts kit" #76 from avishowtech.com (SmashTV) (20usd)

4) ONE "Core32 Module PCB With IC" #75 from avishowtech.com (SmashTV) (25.95usd)

5) TWO "LC Display 40x2 with backlight" Art.-Nr.: EC-006 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (28.50Eur each)

6) 44 buttons hopefully available at local electronics store :/ are there some special requirements?

7) 32 LEDs " LED 3mm St colour" === I'm afraid it's not enough to order - some more detailed parameters are required

8) 17 encoders detented rotary encoders D Shaft === it looks like they are sold out at Smash TV === any recommendations of alternatives? model number?

9) 16 Knobs - these are just plastic parts?

10) 1 datawheel - these are just plastic parts?

11) BankSticks ===== what is this and where it goes???!!!

12) SD card where it goes???!!!

PSU - a have one already

Case & panel - not a problem to custom order from

composite aluminium panel at local laser cutters shop

Software - can be downloaded thanks to TK :) (right?)

Is there something still missing to build fully

functional midibox SEQ V4 - please comment!

Any recommendations to optimize orders?

Best regards

Gunars

[TK.]

1) ONE "MIDIbox SEQ V3 kit" Art.-Nr.: Set-009 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (60Eur)

=> includes 1 x MBHP_CORE, 3 x MBHP_DINX4, 1 x MBHP_DOUTX4, 1 x MBHP_IIC-midimodule

without PIC and throw away MBHP_CORE parts since they are not used in V4

Not required, you can order the 3 x DINX4 and 1 x DOUTX4 module directly from SmashTV - they are better quality anyhow.

2) THREE extra "MBHP_IIC-midimodule" Art.-Nr.: Kit-007 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (13.30Eur each) if I want to have 4 midi outs

In this case you would have to order 4 x MBHP_IIC_MIDI modules

3) ONE "Core32 parts kit" #76 from avishowtech.com (SmashTV) (20usd)

4) ONE "Core32 Module PCB With IC" #75 from avishowtech.com (SmashTV) (25.95usd)

yes

5) TWO "LC Display 40x2 with backlight" Art.-Nr.: EC-006 from mikes-elektronikseite.de (28.50Eur each)

Where are you located? You could also oder the LCDs from a mailorder company, together with buttons/LEDs and other stuff

6) 44 buttons hopefully available at local electronics store :/ are there some special requirements?

I would order the momentary push buttons from a mailorder company to save money

7) 32 LEDs " LED 3mm St colour" === I'm afraid it's not enough to order - some more detailed parameters are required

Can only be perfectly answered if we know where you are living

8) 17 encoders detented rotary encoders D Shaft === it looks like they are sold out at Smash TV === any recommendations of alternatives? model number?

Alternatively you could order them from Voti, the order number is given here:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_manual_hw.html

9) 16 Knobs - these are just plastic parts?

10) 1 datawheel - these are just plastic parts?

yes

11) BankSticks ===== what is this and where it goes???!!!

Where did you found a reference to BankSticks for V4?

They have been replaced by a SD Card, see also complete part list of the V4 project: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_manual_hw.html

12) SD card where it goes???!!!

Available in each supermarket, see also "Ultra Low Cost Adapter" here: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_sdcard.html

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[philetaylor]

Hi.

EDIT: You beat me again TK, this is getting to be a habit :tongue:

The Wilba bulk order hasn't exactly stalled, in fact a mini bulk order was completed last month (12 units). You are correct though that the main bulk order hasn't been active for quite a long time. I really am not sure what the best thing to recommend with this? If a full bulk order is in the works then I would definately recommend going for that as it is a really neat solution (I am on the small bulk order and hope to receive my kit later this month!)

If you definately wan't a V4 seq then no need to buy the whole V3 kit (as that also includes a CORE8 kit that you won't use). Also as the CORE32 comes with 2 MIDI ports (+ USB MIDI) you may not need the IIC modules either as each IIC module just adds another MIDI IN/OUT.

Personally, if you are already ordering from SmashTV (avishowtech) then I would get the DIN and DOUT modules from there as well. His PCB's are fully silk-screened whereas I don't believe that Mike's are...

Therefore (assuming you can't get a Wilba PCB), you will need:

1 x MBHP_CORE32

3 x MBHP_DINX4

1 x MBHP_DOUTX4

2 x (2x40) LCD modules

Buttons - any single pole button is fine (depends on your front panel)

LED's - again whatever ones you prefer (except blue/white as they will kill your retinas :)).

Decoders - if you search the wiki/forum you should find models of supported decoders.

Banksticks are not supported on the v4 SEQ so you will need an SDCard reader. There are a few options in the SD Card section of the ucapps.de website http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_sdcard.html

As I said before, there are various places that this information is available but unfortunately it isn't always that easy to find. As I start, I would recommend clicking on EVERY link on the left hand side of ucapps.de and READING EVERYTHING :). Although you are only interested in the SEQ V4, the other projects all use the same basic hardware and there are numerous hints and tips.

The one thing that you don't need to worry about is the Software though, TK has that sorted!

Phil

Edited January 7, 2010 by philetaylor

[TK.]

Phil, we need a mutex for posting replies ;)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[gjvti]

oh, it is a honour to hear from a midibox guru

and thank you guys - you are reeaally helpful!

If it is possible to hop in the Wilba bulk order

train within reasonable amount of time, I'd love to.

Obviously I have to contact him PM?

Otherwise I will have to order everything myself.

I live in Latvia, so most convenient electronics

mailorder company in my area perhaps is

Elfa - www.elfa.se any German company also would

be OK, since we in Latvia have convenient direct

shipping service from Germany.

Where did you found a reference to BankSticks for V4?

BankSticks are still mentioned on the bottom of this page

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_manual_hw.html

in hardware costs section table.

If you definitely wan't a V4 seq then no need to buy the whole V3 kit (as that also includes a CORE8 kit that you won't use). Also as the CORE32 comes with 2 MIDI ports (+ USB MIDI) you may not need the IIC modules either as each IIC module just adds another MIDI IN/OUT

Yes I would definitely like to have extra midi outs, since it is a hardware project! Midi is missing in most interesting recent commercial developments such Akai APC40, Novation Launchpad so they can not be used stand alone without computer :( . By now I use Ableton and Catanya arpeggiator from 7 Aliens what is a software solution - but I would like to switch to hardware as much as possible and I see that midibox seq is good companion for virus synth which I acquired recently and in paralel it could drive also my Korg X50 which has brilliant polyphonic arpeggiator-step sequencer but unfortunately has only 8 slots for user patterns, what is a pity :(

Best regards, Gunars

Edited January 7, 2010 by gjvti

[gjvti]

Hi!

The more I read about MidiBox SEQ the more I'm fascinated of it :) . It looks very cleverly designed - simply amazing! Unfortunately it looks like I have missed recent small bulk order (so I just ordered main components from Smash TV). Obviously I have to do all on my own with standard vectorboard for buttons and leds instead of Wilba designed PCB. This arises a question about difference between V3 and V4.

1) It looks like Wilba design of V4 has 58 buttons instead of standard 44 of V3. I was able to find only how to connect 44 buttons ( http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq/mbseq_v4_din.pdf ) so my first question is where other 14 buttons go in this schematic?

2) Wilba version also mentions bicolour leds. Can they be connected in same way as shown there http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq/mbseq_v4_dout.pdf

3) why there are two utility buttons? Also after reading MenuPages manual it was not clear to me what functionality is hidden under Fast button - it is just mentioned in the mixer page section with no functionality explained. I understand that under F1...F4 there are shortcuts to access specific deeper pages quickly?

4) As I said I'm still amazed by immense functionality of this device - it look it does almost everything (kind a hardware ableton) what I can imagine, except perhaps one thing (maybe I simply haven't found that so far). Is there a way to trigger patterns/pattern groups from midi keyboard sending note numbers. Lets say I reserve lower octave for triggering of pattern groups (or perhaps muting/unmuting tracks) or switching song positions so that C1 for example triggers (toggle/hold) Group1 etc or jumps to specific position of song C1 position 1, D1 position 2 and so on.

Also I guess I will have questions about midi implementation chart - it was not very clear to me whether device accepts only sysex or cc or both. There was an example B0 62 31 63 02 06 0F - which is a parameter part of this sysex message and which is a value part (changing)?

BTW is there a difference between pattern group and TrackGroup or that is the same thing just different names.

Thanks for your support!

[Gridracer]

Hi gjvti,

1) It looks like Wilba design of V4 has 58 buttons instead of standard 44 of V3. I was able to find only how to connect 44 buttons ( http://ucapps.de/mid...bseq_v4_din.pdf ) so my first question is where other 14 buttons go in this schematic?

You will notice that on the third DINX4 Board only 2 shift registers are used so to the remaining two you can connect 2x8=16 Buttons, then you have to make the

assignments in the "MBSEQ_HW.V4" file (which Button you have connected to which pin of which shift register)

2) Wilba version also mentions bicolour leds. Can they be connected in same way as shown there http://ucapps.de/mid...seq_v4_dout.pdf

Yes, they can but you will need a second DOUTX2 or X4 Board and you have to use common cathode dual colour LED's

The same as for the buttons, you have to make the assignments in the "MBSEQ_HW.V4" :

(But only the shift Register has to be assigned, not the pins, here you have to follow exactly the schematic)

# DOUTs for Dual Color option:

GP_DOUT_L2_SR  0

GP_DOUT_R2_SR  0

3) why there are two utility buttons?

Sorry, iam not aware of this -> cant't help.

Also after reading MenuPages manual it was not clear to me what functionality is hidden under Fast button

By activating "FAST" the encoders work faster for entering bigger value ranges

I understand that under F1...F4 there are shortcuts to access specific deeper pages quickly?

exactly, the pages can be also assigned in "MBSEQ_HW.V4"

4) As I said I'm still amazed by immense functionality of this device - it look it does almost everything (kind a hardware ableton) what I can imagine, except perhaps one thing (maybe I simply haven't found that so far). Is there a way to trigger patterns/pattern groups from midi keyboard sending note numbers. Lets say I reserve lower octave for triggering of pattern groups (or perhaps muting/unmuting tracks) or switching song positions so that C1 for example triggers (toggle/hold) Group1 etc or jumps to specific position of song C1 position 1, D1 position 2 and so on.

I think this is what you are looking for:

MIDI_REMOTE

I guess that you will especially like the "section" feature since it has been requested multiple times in the past.

For a quick try, press & hold StepView + SELECT button and select a new step view.

To control this from a MIDI keyboard (the method that I prefer during live playing), configure the MIDI settings under MIDI->Section Control, and play some keys on your keyboard.

BTW is there a difference between pattern group and TrackGroup or that is the same thing just different names.

It's the same

I'm still amazed by immense functionality of this device

I absolutely agree! :drool: It's even more impessive to work with it than to read about it.

Looking foreward to see another custom build MIDIbox SEQ!

Best Regards,

Gridracer

[gjvti]

.....

By activating "FAST" the encoders work faster for entering bigger value ranges

exactly, the pages can be also assigned in "MBSEQ_HW.V4"

.....

MIDI_REMOTE

.....

I absolutely agree! :drool: It's even more impessive to work with it than to read about it.

Looking foreward to see another custom build MIDIbox SEQ!

Best Regards,

Gridracer

Hi Gridracer

Thanks for your valuable comments!

huh MBSEQ_HW.V4 file - yet another cool thing about midibox SEQ

have a lot to study again now :)

MIDI_REMOTE - no this is not exactly what I meant

this is just a mirror of MidiboxSEQ control panel buttons.

I meant it would be cool if it were possible to control this:

"Jump Pos: sequencer jumps to the specified position - allows to set loop points"

from midi keyboard sending a note message or/and this

"Back to Phrase Mode: select the "Position" item by pushing Layer button B. By

pushing a GP button, the sequencer will execute the action defined at song

position A1, B1, C1..P1 (16 possible actions)."

or/and mute/unmute status of a track. Ok I have

quite lot to learn first before I qualify for

suggesting something

:)

Kind regards

Gunars

[TK.]

"Jump Pos: sequencer jumps to the specified position - allows to set loop points"

from midi keyboard sending a note message or/and this

Selecting sections with a keyboard is officially supported with the latest version, see the ChangeLog:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_changelog.html

There is even a video which demonstrates the usage.

The documentation hasn't been updated yet, therefore you probably missed this.

I'm planning to write a tutorial about the usage, because a) this powerful feature can be quickly overlooked, and b) the perfect configuration in conjunction with your gear requires some learning.

"Back to Phrase Mode: select the "Position" item by pushing Layer button B. By

pushing a GP button, the sequencer will execute the action defined at song

position A1, B1, C1..P1 (16 possible actions)."

or/and mute/unmute status of a track. Ok I have

quite lot to learn first before I qualify for

suggesting something

Thats how phrase mode is working, it can also set mutes, send mixer maps, change tempo, etc...

It really makes sense to work with MBSEQ V4 first before proposing new features, which probably already exist or have been implemented on a different way.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[gjvti]

Selecting sections with a keyboard is officially supported with the latest version, see the ChangeLog:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_changelog.html

There is even a video which demonstrates the usage.

The documentation hasn't been updated yet, therefore you probably missed this.

I'm planning to write a tutorial about the usage, because a) this powerful feature can be quickly overlooked, and b) the perfect configuration in conjunction with your gear requires some learning.

Thats how phrase mode is working, it can also set mutes, send mixer maps, change tempo, etc...

It really makes sense to work with MBSEQ V4 first before proposing new features, which probably already exist or have been implemented on a different way.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Hi TK

This is really awesome!

Sorry, I have missed that changelog and complete remote control example video. It explains a lot.

Now I'm just waiting for components and eager to move on with construction process :)

Thank you!

Best regards,

Gunars

Edited January 25, 2010 by gjvti