Help With Mios and Pics

[JRock]

Hi y'all. I aquired an almost complete MB-6582 Base PCB and I'm in the process of troubleshooting it. I've been reading and searching and I think I've done most of the homework I can. I could really use some help to get pointed in the right direction.

I checked all the voltages and they match up with the prescribed numbers.

I'm really bad with computers and midi. All my music gear is hardware.

I'm using a Lexicon Lambda interface with a windows XP OS.

I checked some other gear with midiox and I'm outputting and inputting.

In Mios Studio it loops back and sends and receives sysex strings (the letters in the bottom box?)

The LED flickers when I connect it to TX and RX.

It does not flicker when I connect it to pins 4 and 5 (M- and M+) of the output on the MB6582. I tried it both ways round to make sure it wasn't me.

The problem is:

I have 4 pics from Smash. On 0 originally it had the testtone programmed. I thought I uploaded setup 8580. Now on the LCD it counts up patch numbers to 67, stops, reboots and does the whole shtick over again.

I can't get a response from it. In the midi input window it reads f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7.

But it can't get a response from the chip. It keeps telling me to check my midi connection but I'm pretty positive that everything is good till the MB6582.

I checked all the soldering. I retouched anything that looked remotely like a cold joint or bridges. That doesn't mean that is not the cause of the problem though. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Where should I look for the culprit?

Another thing. I noticed the second Pic (Device 1) was getting warm. So I queried device 1 and it says Application Ready to Go! (paraphrase)

I thought maybe it was the chip so I put it in 0 spot but I can't figure out how to change the device number. I don't think you can right? The other 2 chips are nonresponsive.

I was sent a core module as well and when I tried that Pic in 0 spot the LCD comes up as Midibox SID V2 no CS but it will not communicate with MIOS either. Still tells me it can't communicate with the chip in the input window.

I am guessing that since the LED don't flicker when connected to the midi output but all the other tests on the MIOS troubleshooting page are a go that it has something to do with the soldering but I'm out of leads. I've been trying to get this myself for 3 days and I know a lot more than I did but I'm still getting the same results. I could really use some help from someone more experienced and knowledgeable than myself.

Thanks

[TK.]

Hi,

Now on the LCD it counts up patch numbers to 67, stops, reboots and does the whole shtick over again.

strange... - which EEPROMs are you using exactly?

And which MBSID firmware version - The latest (and greatest)?

I can't get a response from it. In the midi input window it reads f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7.

But it can't get a response from the chip. It keeps telling me to check my midi connection but I'm pretty positive that everything is good till the MB6582.

Does this also happen when all IIC EEPROMs ("BankSticks") are removed from the sockets?

Another thing. I noticed the second Pic (Device 1) was getting warm. So I queried device 1 and it says Application Ready to Go! (paraphrase)

Thats fine, the bidirectional communication is working, even to the second PIC

I thought maybe it was the chip so I put it in 0 spot but I can't figure out how to change the device number. I don't think you can right? The other 2 chips are nonresponsive.

The device number is flashed into the PIC. It won't change if you put the PIC into another socket.

The "change_id" application (available on the MIOS download page) can be used to assign a different ID if this helps, but I guess that it won't make a difference at the end.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[JRock]

Wow. Thanks for the reply TK!!

I have the 24lc512 epproms in. There are 8 of'em there .

I have not had an opportunity to check it without. (I hadn't thought of it...)

But I will do so as soon as I get the chance.

I believe it's firmware MBSID V2 (Latest and Greatest!) and it's Mios 1.9. I'll double check to make sure when I have everything hooked up.

(Right now my desk is cluttered with the Baby8 - APC... I'm trying to clear off my breadboard.)

So the pic getting warm was good? That's kinda what I figured cause it did the same thing in both spots. None of the other pics did.

I'll check back back after I have tested without the epproms.

Thanks!

[JRock]

Ok. When I take the eeproms out on PIC 0 the Lcd reads: A001 Chn1 1---

Internal Patch

When I slip an eeprom in it counts up to 6 and resets.

In Mios studio it still is not responding to midi in.

I checked all the PICs with the LCD and the second one doesn't read anything on the LCD but in Mios studio says everything is AOK.

The third and the fouth PIC says on the LCD that it's loaded with the testtone program and will not respond to midi in in Mios studio.

I should mention that only the second PIC is getting warm.

By the way. I built a step B control surface for troubleshooting but I can't quite figure out how to hook it up to the base PCB (Wilba 6852). I have a separate DIN module built so can I just connect it to J8-J9 in the core section? or do I have to solder headers in the the JD inputs in the bottom and disconnect my separate DIN module?

Thanks

[Wilba]

J8_CORE1/J9_CORE1 in the Core section of MB-6582 base PCB is identical pinout to the J8/J9 header on a Core module. However, it is poorly labelled. Vss is at the end on the right. You will need to remove at least the first 74HC165 and 74HC595 in the DIN/DOUT chain on the MB-6582 base PCB (i.e. U16 and U21) so that there's no conflict with the external DIN/DOUT modules. You will also need to upload something like setup_8580.hex which uses the default DIN/DOUT wiring, as setup_mb6582.hex uses a different DIN/DOUT wiring (i.e. the combined LED/switch matrix).

(Sorry that I haven't been following this issue and helping you, I'll jump in after your next report).

[JRock]

If it sheds any more light when I turn it on the MIDI in window says:

f0 00 00 7e 46 01 0d 00 00 00 f7

f0 00 00 7e 46 01 0d 01 00 00 f7

f0 00 00 7e 46 01 0d 02 00 00 f7

f0 00 00 7e 46 01 02 00 49 6e 74 65 72 6e 61 6c 20 50 61 74 63 68 20 20 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 40 00 00 00 40 40 40 40 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7f 00 00 00 00 00 40 42 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7f 00 00 00 00 00 40 3e 02 00 04 40 00 00 00 00 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 7f 00 00 7f 00 00 7f 00 20 10 2e 00 00 00 07 10 7f 07 20 00 01 03 7f 01 40 00 01 50 7f 01 60 00 7f 40 40 40 40 00 60 60 20 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 38 f7

Then 02 and 03.

Figgered I throw that out there. I have no idea what it means but I'll bet some of you guys can read it like a newspaper.http://midibox.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.png

Thanks for your reply Wilba! That's what I thought(about J8/J9). I didn't know about taking the 74xxxx's out.

I've been trying to upload the setup 8580 hex but I still can't get my PICs to respond...

Right now the control surface is having no effect.

That's my status right now. Stuck till I can get my Pics up and running.

Thanks

[JRock]

Any thoughts? Do you think it's the soldering somewhere?

Why would only the second PIC have a response?

The board didn't look that messed up.

I can't figure out why only the second pic would respond.

would that mean that there are bad joints on the way to the other 3 or is this something else?

I've touched up most of the questionable joints so I can't imagine that many got away from me.

I've read most of the stuff on troubleshooting that is applicable.

Anybody have a similar experience or a suggestion?

[TK.]

f0 00 00 7e 46

it seems that you've uploaded the wrong firmware - this is the SysEx header of MBSID V1 which is not compatible to a PIC18F4685

The link to the latest MBSID V2 firmware is published here:

It's important that a V2 firmware is flashed into all PICs, otherwise the CAN bus won't work.

This combination could even cause a short on the CAN bus - this could be an explanation for the high temperature on the second PIC.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[JRock]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply!

Any idea how to get my pics to respond so I can upload the current firmware?

I've not been able to upload anything new. Guess I better give it a try before I take up any more of your time.

Also, I ordered a couple boards and other stuff from smashtv a couple months ago...

I know he's very busy so I'm wondering what a polite waiting time is before I ask him if he sent them and maybe they got lost in the mail.

I don't want to bother him unnecessarily...

If there is a problem though, I would like to know.

[nILS]

Check the shipping status page at http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/status.html - if you don't find yourself on there and it's been "a couple of months" since you ordered do the following:

- check if you have really really paid - forgetting that happens to the best of us ;)

- check your spam filter/eMails for any eMails from Smash, where he might have a question or the likes

- if nothing helps - drop by in the chat or write him a PM or eMail and ask nicely :)

[JRock]

It's still telling me No response from Mios 8 or Mios 32 core.

I turn it off, turn it on then hit start and it says bootloader mode cannot be entered.

I'm gonna post a thread to ask if anyone has used the Lexicon Lambda.

It's not on the Blacklist...

Sysex messages come up on the screen when I have it looped to itself...

I have a GM5x5x5. Still not sure If I put it together right cause I don't have the midi sockets yet.

I checked and Smash had a delay cause of backorders. My order got processed on May31.

Thanks Guys!

[nILS]

Good to hear your order is on route!

I saw the other thread about the interface first, and apparently you've already found the blacklist :) You can easily just use some wire between the gm5x5x5 and the core module - in case you can't get a hold of the sockets soonish.

[JRock]

Duh! Thanks!

[TK.]

A possible reason why the upload is not working properly is, that the application that you downloaded before crashes the PIC, and that your computer is not fast enough to handle the upload request when the PIC is restarted.

Therefore I added a new mechanism to MIOS Studio 2.1 which can handle this situation properly.

1) download MIOS Studio 2.1 (-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios_studio.html)

2) select MIDI ports and device ID as before

3) power-off your MB6582

4) press the start button. MIOS Studio won't find the MIDIbox, but it will go into a new mode which waits for an upload request

5) once you see the appr. message ("Waiting for upload request..."), power-on your MB6582

6) the download should start now - if not, it would be interesting to know if a SysEx message is received by the MIDI IN monitor (if yes: which one?)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[JRock]

Wow. :sorcerer:

I assembled my first board last weekend and the first PIC seemed to take to the frimware.

I can play midi though it. Only on the first module on the MB6852 so far though.

I built a step B CS but only the first select button does anything and now it stopped doing that. :rolleyes:

I loaded the PICs for the other board I was troubleshooting on this new one I just built but I can't remember if they work on the new one.

I'll be troubleshooting this weekend so tomorrow I'll try out the new Mios Studio.

That's awesome! My computer is a netbook. Probably only good for surfin the web.

I am very unfamiliar with computers so this is going to be the most difficult part for me.

I tried the SID editor and had a lot of trouble figuring out how to get everything pulled together.

I followed the directions and I think I had it all setup right and still couldn't get it to work.

But I quite probably did something wrong.

I've got a question. I left out 3 R6(?) the resistor under the PICs the partslist says isn't necessary. They are not on the first board either. Would that cause any problems?

I'm just talking out of my head now. Tomorrow I'll set everything up and read through the troubleshooting guides again try the New Mios Studio!!!

Thanks!

[JRock]

Hi.

It took a long time (nearly 30 minutes) to load and it still won't play with MIDI.

I forgot to capture what came up on the MIDI IN screen. It was two lines about four times.

Similar to what you get when you turn it on. I'll do it again and post it for you when I set everything up again. (Sorry) :cry: Right now my desk is cleared off to work on a CS.

I uploaded to correct firmware last week by swapping the chips with the new board I built. So the LCD reads like everything is hunky dory when I turn it on.

My step B CS won't work with the MB6582 so my next step is to build a rudimentary controller until I make my faceplate and am postitive where everything is going.(Also help me learn how it all goes together)

On the new board I built last weekend I can't get the V2 editor to work.

I ran MIDIYoke through MIDITrix but all I can get is the patch column and when I click a patch it says it's getting no response from the V2 MBSID. When I plug MIDI directly to the board I get quiet tones from SID 2 on channel 1, just a buzz from SID 4, full tone from SID 6 on channel 3 and no tone from SID 8. (I'm just working in Mono till I get everything figgered out.

I think I can't get the editor to work because of my sheer ineptitude on the computer.(seems like I'm learning though :thumbsup: ) So I'm going to build temporary control surface to help me see what really needs troubleshooting.

One thing I noticed...

J11 on both of them has no effect. Even on the new board (that midi works on module 3 for sure), when I switch the shunt and query it says there is not reply from Mios 8/32. What does that mean?

[JRock]

[50059.609] f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7

[50060.718] f0 00 00 7e 40 00 0e 0c 01 f7

[50060.718] f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7

I didn't let it run the whole time cause it takes about 30 minutes and it's late but it does that about 4 times

and says upload completed and nothing changes on the LCD.

It's reading: EInt|PInt Ld Chn. 1

1**-|Lead Patch

I guess I'll have to build a whole CS cause the buttons aren't doing anything even on my new board. I built a mini matrix with all the functions of the step B CS and wired it according to the Matrix for the MB6582.

If I change the DIN pins on the encoder it will change the LFO depth and a couple other things.

But I guess you need the completed matrix for the programming to make sense of the buttons.

Going to bed now. Have more soon.

Thanks!

[JRock]

Oops! I need to add diodes in between the switches of my mini matrix! Could be why it ain't workin'.

I saw the LEDs and thought I'd just leave them out and I can deal with the DOUT after I get the main functions functioning. :rolleyes:

They serve a function besides just looking pretty though. Ha Ha

That's what rushing and not thinking will get you. I have a note to myself on my worktable that says

"If you take a careful minute you could save a sloppy hour."

Guess I ought to read it more often.

BTW Mios 2.1 worked great. It held the upload and waited for me to reboot the MB6582. That's Brilliant!!! :sorcerer:

There must be something wrong with the board (ie:the way it was assembled...)

Once I get this new board fully functional I can use it as a reference to troubleshoot the assembled one I got that is not receiving uploads.

This is the second CS I built and forgot to use diodes. It just came to me reading someone else's post!

I guess it's a good thing I'm prototyping these CS :whistle:

Question: On my new board, everytime I boot it up it says (on the lcd) cloning slaves, then only mentions core2 then resets. Is this normal behavior?

[nILS]

Question: On my new board, everytime I boot it up it says (on the lcd) cloning slaves, then only mentions core2 then resets. Is this normal behavior?

Nope. That should only happen when you hold shift(?) at startup - something is wrong.

[JRock]

Guess it's back to the drawing board then!

My mini matrix didn't work either but that could be because The board isn't right yet.

Funny thing is midi on channel 1 works (quietly) on module 1 and midi channel 3 works for module 3. As in I can hear the SIDs. I can hear noise from the second module too. I just have no control over them.

I'm thinking I'll start a new general troubleshooting thread.

Guess it's time to strap on the old reading glasses and the spelunking helmet and get deep.

Oh well. At least I ain't gettin' any stupider.

Thanks