Push-Swith Encoders MidiBox64e

[crazytechno]

Hi Everyone, Im quite new too the midibox world but have been reading for a while and im set on creating my own controller.

The Controller I want to design will ideally feature 20 rotary encoders. Non indented and with the push-switch option, i've done my research and the part ive come across is one of the bourns PEC11 options heres the link >

http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=PEC11-4020F-S0024virtualkey65210000virtualkey652-PEC11-4020F-S024

My questions are.

1/ Will this encoder work in a midibox64e

2/ Will the push switch option on the enocders allow the same functionality as any other type of stand alone button?

3/ The Midibox64e documentation states that you need a minimum of 8 buttons for all the standard functions. Will the switches on the enocoders do this job?

4/ If the answers to these questions are yes. Could someone point me in the direction of any wiring and pcb design tutorials or articles that would be handy. Ive got alot of experience in product design but electronics is new too me.

The design also will ideally feature 30 pots. So a few more questions.

5/ I came across thes ALPS RK09L114001T there quite reasonably priced and seem to tick all the boxes, would they work though? Here's the link> http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=RK09L114001Tvirtualkey68800000virtualkey688-RK09L114001T

6/ My Understanding for this setup "20 push-switch encoders and 30 pots" i will need one core, 2 dinx modules and 1 ainx module and the other modules required for a 64e.

7/ So two dinx modules will give me 64 dins, 40 for the 20 encoders and 20 for the push switch feature on the encoders? Not too sure here could do with some confirmation?

8/ My single ainx module will give me enough inputs for the 30 encoders?

I realise I have asked quite alot of questions, and do apologise in advance but any advice on any of my questions here would be great! I hope someone can help and i'll be more than willing to contribute back to the comunity if I ever get my head around midibox'ing. Also I hope ive posted in the right forum.

Thanks in advance people.

[phunk]

Hi,

1.) yes

2.) yes, its a button

3.) yes, they are buttons. Nervertheless i think it is not very practical. Think about heavy controller action. I dunno how sensitive they are but i could imagine you press them accidentaly..

4.) Wiring / Generell PCB Design Tutorial

5.) never used them, dunno. very likely they work.

6.) A encoder uses 2 digital inputs. A pushbutton 1. You need 40 inputs for the encoders and another 20 for the buttons = 60 Inputs = 2 x DINX. Correct. 1 AIN is correct as well...

7.)s.a.

8.)s.a.

Think about a lcd as well. It comes in very handy when troubleshooting and doesnt cost a lot. Anyway consider building a GM5...

[nILS]

Non indented

I think the word you're looking for is "detented" :)

1/ Will this encoder work in a midibox64e

Yes.

2/ Will the push switch option on the enocders allow the same functionality as any other type of stand alone button?

Yes, but.

The push switch will work just like any other button, but it also comes with the risk of moving the encoder while pushing the button - I've never had problems with that but iirc some people did accidentally move the encoders while trying to only push the button.

3/ The Midibox64e documentation states that you need a minimum of 8 buttons for all the standard functions. Will the switches on the enocoders do this job?

Yes, although the question is if they're in a good position to do the job. With a smart layout I'm pretty sure it'll work nicely.

4/ If the answers to these questions are yes. Could someone point me in the direction of any wiring and pcb design tutorials or articles that would be handy. Ive got alot of experience in product design but electronics is new too me.

What exactly are you looking for? An electronics CAD program like Eagle, Kicad and the likes to design PCBs or just general info on how to do it on veroboard?

5/ I came across thes ALPS RK09L114001T there quite reasonably priced and seem to tick all the boxes, would they work though? Here's the link> http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=RK09L114001Tvirtualkey68800000virtualkey688-RK09L114001T

Yes, they will work.

6/ My Understanding for this setup "20 push-switch encoders and 30 pots" i will need one core, 2 dinx modules and 1 ainx module and the other modules required for a 64e.

DIN: 20 encoders = 40 inputs, 20 encoder buttons = 20 input pins ---> 60 inputs ie two DINx4 (max. 64 inputs)

AIN: 30 pots = 30 input --> one AINx4 (max. 32 inputs)

DOUT: no leds?

7/

See 6/ :)

8/ My single ainx module will give me enough inputs for the 30 encoders?

After the rest of your post I am pretty sure you mean pots not encoders. See 6/

edit: Grrrr, the forum got stuck while trying to submit my post and now phunk beat me. :angry: Need to work on my speed skillz :shifty:

[phunk]

lolz, nILS.

I haz had more speedz than you.

anyway..its definately confirmed working now :-)

[crazytechno]

Woww! thanks guys, can't thank you enough!

1/ Regards to wiring pcb design. I'm not sure which would be the best way to go fo me. Learning a circuit pcb program might be an option, but i think i would also benefit from learning the veroboard way too. I also seem to be quite good at learning from things with real photographs to go with the wiring diagrams etc.. Anyway I think as much info as I can get my hands on will help here. Total newbie too electronics, the last time i used a soldering iron was school lessons. If designing a PCB would greatly decrease the amount of soldering I have to do?? It would probably be a good way to go. If learning the software route is the way too go what would your advice be on software choices? I'd like the idea of a program that would be useful in designing pcb's for all different kinds of products.

2/ I could do with tutorials / images of how encoders are wired to the dinx module. And also how pots are wired to the ainx module. I'm led to believe that this is were the majority of wiring is?

3/ I was also defonately thinking of purchasing an lcd and also bankstick, I forgot to mention this. One of the main reason I wanted an LCD was for feeback of midi bank changes etc would it do this?

4/ GM5 module as you mentioned, is this a case of purchasing the module , wiring it to the core? and then you get usb connectivety?

Again thanks for the previous info! All my questions were answered, by two people! Can't believe it and again thank you. Too kind.

[phunk]

Woww! thanks guys, can't thank you enough!

1/ Regards to wiring pcb design. I'm not sure which would be the best way to go fo me. Learning a circuit pcb program might be an option, but i think i would also benefit from learning the veroboard way too. I also seem to be quite good at learning from things with real photographs to go with the wiring diagrams etc.. Anyway I think as much info as I can get my hands on will help here. Total newbie too electronics, the last time i used a soldering iron was school lessons. If designing a PCB would greatly decrease the amount of soldering I have to do?? It would probably be a good way to go. If learning the software route is the way too go what would your advice be on software choices? I'd like the idea of a program that would be useful in designing pcb's for all different kinds of products.

2/ I could do with tutorials / images of how encoders are wired to the dinx module. And also how pots are wired to the ainx module. I'm led to believe that this is were the majority of wiring is?

3/ I was also defonately thinking of purchasing an lcd and also bankstick, I forgot to mention this. One of the main reason I wanted an LCD was for feeback of midi bank changes etc would it do this?

4/ GM5 module as you mentioned, is this a case of purchasing the module , wiring it to the core? and then you get usb connectivety?

Again thanks for the previous info! All my questions were answered, by two people! Can't believe it and again thank you. Too kind.

1.) Well..that entirely depends on you. Consider that learning a PCB Layout program, creating a schematic and a pcb is a very time consuming process and has very steep learning curve. So i probably wouldnt do it a) on my first project b) when i want the box soon

2.) That´s correct. If you want pictures have a look in the mixibox of the week section. There are some interior pics. Anyway the schematic on ucapps.de is totally clear and sufficient. Wiring is easy...:)

3.) Yes. Get a LCD that is supported by MIOS. You can read in the WIKI which models are compatible and which not.

4.) Yes. USB connectivity. Its a little PCB that is directly wired to the core.

[nILS]

A little clarification on the gm5: It's a little chip that has a USB interface and 5 MIDI I/Os, so it's a great midi interface for any PC. And since it's cheap and small you can even put it inside any midibox and have USB instead of MIDI. I'd personally prefer using it as a standalone midi interface - that way you can use the mbSID w/o a PC, which obviously with USB only you can't.

[crazytechno]

Thanks again, i'll defonately be looking in the gm5 usb connectivety would be great as I intened to use this with ableton on a pc. Also the midi in's and out's seem great too.

1/ Any advice on what sort of cabling to use for wiring my ainx and dinx to pots and encoders? ive seen people using ribbon cables and splitting the ends apart and ive also seen a variety of other cables.

2/ Do i need to use anything else in these circuits? other than wiring from the components (encoders, switches, pots) to the module and then the modules to the core?

3/ In what order would I connect my encoders and buttons on the dinx, ie, buttons first? or encoders first? first to last or last to first?

4/ Im also assuming getting one bankstick will let me save internally 16 channels of midi setups?

Thanks again, all this info is invaluble, and sorry again for all the questions.