Bank selection

[Duggle]

So the idea is that with a synth with many parameters it will be impossible for there to be a dedicated knob for every parameter. Hence the feature of Banks in the NG system.

The idea is to have a group of radio buttons (each with a LED of course) to select Banks (or "pages" as I think of them) of parameters. The Access Virus  for example has well over 100 parameters. It may be possible to reach all of them via 4 banks of 32 encoders (but definitely with 6 or 8 banks).

 

What about the realtime tweaking of 2 parameters? This is ok when the're in the same bank, but impossible otherwise. My idea (maybe unnecessary, gratuitous, stupid) is to be able to access parameters on other banks individually by stepping through the banks of an individual knob by pressing on the encoder switch. A bank select button would change all controls to the same bank, as expected.

It follows that if the 2 parameters from different banks where positioned on the same knob, the position of one of the parameters would need to changed in order to accommodate that particular combination (by editing the NGC file, or create further banks with the same parameters in different positions).

 

Maybe the concept has merit as a way of making on the fly custom banks. I don't know, but I thought I'd mention this NG design topic.   

 

[TK.]

To summarize your request: you would like to cycle between the parameters which are assigned to an encoder in different banks with dedicated buttons (encoder switches), right?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Duggle]

To summarize your request: you would like to cycle between the parameters which are assigned to an encoder in different banks with dedicated buttons (encoder switches), right?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Correct!

 

[edit]

Actually think this might be more useful than I first thought. It allows to see (and change) parameters from different banks.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Duggle

[Duggle]

Another related idea is the following:

Say you have a synth and you design  a bank which accounts for 1/4 of the synths params. You access all params of the synth by a group of 4 radio buttons.

So far (as I understand) NG gives us this.

 

Now (continuing the above example), say each bank consists of 4 (or 6 or whatever) rows of encoders.

I could have the 4 radio buttons replicated beside each row of encoders. This way it would be possible to swap in an entire row from another bank.

This could be a good way to simultaneously control parameters from another piece of gear: say an fx unit that only has 10 parameters might temporarily inhabit 1 row of a synth bank.

Maybe a single button (to cycle) or encoder beside each row for bank selection would work.

 

[ilmenator]

Maybe a single button (to cycle) or encoder beside each row for bank selection would work.

 

Thinking this to an end, one would also need some kind of status display to know which bank is currently selected - per row. Making it complicated (implementation-wise) this could be indicated by a 1- or 2-digit 7-segment LED. Making it easy, this task could just be taken over by the first (or actually, any) encoder with LED ring in each row. Then it boils down to a purely software-implemented feature and the hardware could stay exactly as it is now on Jerome's board.

[TK.]

Alright, I've an idea how to handle this in the firmware, and will try it out this evening.

The good point is, that the existing BANK definitions can still be used, but the actual selected element within a bank will be stored separately (in the event pool), and therefore can also be changed separately.

It will even be possible to change the bank of multiple elements from a single button (or encoder or pot), since it's allowed to execute multiple meta events from a single element.

More about this topic once my experiments are finished.

 

Btw.: it is already possible to display the selected bank and parameter on the LCD, and in future it will also be possible to forward this information to a LED_MATRIX element which controls LED digits.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Duggle]

That's really cool!

 

My idea for a control surface is (if I'm correct about the limits) is 6 of 40x2CLCD's each with 8 switch encoders mounted close (like SEQ) but also a well diffused RGB LED under or over each encoder.

Thats 48 encoders, each incorporating a switch and RGB LED, and average of 2x5 char LCD space. With the knobs 4 above and 4 below the LCD it might be 9chars+1space per parameter.

 

Now the purpose of the LEDs is to visually reinforce the logical connection of groups of parameters. Say in a given bank all parameters of FILTER1 were Light Green, and all the parameters of FILTER2 were Pink, it would not only make the bank, when selected, instantly recognisable, but it would save LCD space because "FLTR1" text above each knob of FILTER1 would be redundant and the characters saved put to better use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TK.]

You guys challenge me... :wink:

After doing the (simple) changes, I decided to remove the BANK command, and to replace it by the new "hw_id" and "bank" parameters in the EVENT command, because otherwise I fear that we will quickly loose the oversight.

This results into a bit more writing effort, on the other hand it increases the flexibility - also unrelated to banks - since the hw_id (which addresses the hardware) is now totally independent from the "id" (which addresses the software function)

In following test I ensured that Ilmenators proposal is basically working:

http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fapps%2Fcontrollers%2Fmidibox_ng_v1%2Fcfg%2Ftests%2Fbnk_2sel.ngc

It modifies the bank of the upper/lower encoder row of the LRE8x2 independent from each other with the leftmost encoders.

The selected bank is forwarded to a LED_MATRIX, which is an LED ring - but we could also pass it to LED digits once this option is available.

In following test I ensured that Duggle's usecase is basically working:

http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fapps%2Fcontrollers%2Fmidibox_ng_v1%2Fcfg%2Ftests%2Fbnk_8sel.ngc

The upper encoder row of the LRE8x2 board sends MIDI controllers, the lower row selects the bank of the encoder above.

Instead of forwarding the bank value to a LED ring you could also pass it to a LED radio group of course (to your RGB LEDs)

And instead of using encoders to select the bank, an EVENT_BUTTON ... meta=CycleBankOfHwId:<hw-id> should do the same job :sorcerer:

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Hawkeye]

Thanks for your work on this! For the MBNG based FS1R editor (with its estimated 1748 controllable MIDI parameters :smile:),

bank switching by turning an encoder and displaying the current knob assignments in a few GLCDs after the bank switch would be very cool!

 

(Off-topic: when encoders are turned/parameters are changed, it would be nice to invert the according slot graphics on the GLCD and display the changed data value, and the previous data value in its "slot").

 

There will probably be as many usecases as users, and it will probably not be possible to support all of them without wandering too far into generic land, which will be very hard to understand by us mere mortals :-)

 

Many greets,

Peter

Edited January 4, 2013 by Hawkeye

[TK.]

(Off-topic: when encoders are turned/parameters are changed, it would be nice to invert the according slot graphics on the GLCD and display the changed data value, and the previous data value in its "slot").

 

This would be very difficult to integrate such an option on a generic way :-/

 

 

 

There will probably be as many usecases as users, and it will probably not be possible to support all of them without wandering too far into generic land, which will be very hard to understand by us mere mortals :-)

 

Exactly! ;-)

 

It's especially difficult to find the right balance. Number of parameters vs. ease of configuration, number of features vs. memory consumption, etc. etc.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.