Project: MA4PC a Midibased Lighting Controller

[GMAprogrammer]

 

Hey Guys,

 

in this Thread i Want to Present my first Midibox Project. Not only because it is maybe interesting for others but also to provide met some Help from you guys because im stuck with the Midibox_NG Configuration.

 

For the better readability i will Write this Post in English so as many of you as possible can give me help and Feedback. Please excuse when i do some mistakes with the language.

 

So to start at the very Beginning:

 

With 14 Years i started to work with MA-lightings Control Software GrandMA OnPC (http://malighting.de/) . Some day i though about some sort of hardware controller for it. I started to google for it and found out that theres a possibility to connect the BCF2000 from Behringer to the software and even get the motorfaders to work with a special driver. So i ordered my first BCF2000. Over the time an with the money i got from my lighting jobs i got: Two BCF2000, several Touchscreens, a Novation Launpad and some Griffin Powermate USB Encoders. With this stuff build into a case together with a ripped apart Laptop i got my own first Lighting desk over Midi.

[Picture]

 

 

This thing does its Job for about 1,5 Years now. The only Problem is that its not running very stable because of the many USB devices connected and the old Laptop in it. So i started looking for a better more custom solution.

I saw several people in the internet doing exactly what i want, a custom hardware midicontroller to control GrandMA OnPC. Some of them even in this Forum but in my first attempts i wanted to go with Doepfer USB64 and another Buttonboard from them. Based on this Boards i designed some PCB Layouts and did them myself in my home workshop but i never get them to run.

[Picture]

 

I got in Contact with another Midiboxer (ChrisK) you can find his Project under ww.notapage.net an he finally convinced me to switch over to Midibox. One of the reasons for that was the fact that the Doepfer Modules would have cost me about 450€ in Total and that the Midibox is way more flexible in its Configuration.

So, throw away everything ive planned till this Point and  started a complete new project. With Chris‘ help i understood the Basics of the Midiboxconcept very quick and decided to go with a MIO128 Application to get my Buttons to run and with some MF_NG Modules to get the 12 Faders into the Midibox. Ive used hours and hours to read on Ucapps and make my thougts about how i can build this Projekt. Later this will safe me a lot of time but at this Point i nearly stopped the Project withot even had one Cable soldered.

 

But i did go on :smile: so now the more interesting Part:

At August Last Year i finally started assembling the first Midibox parts ordered from Smash. From then on there is a continous Progress in the Project.

[Picture]

 

My Project basicly base on a big Button Matrix scanned by several DIN_SR and one DOUT_SR. The LEDs in the Buttons are driven by some extra DOUT Modules. And as i said before the Faders are going to be working over 2 MF_NG Modules and maybe the internal Analoge Ports of the Core.

So here are some Pictures of the Building:

 

 

So as i got nearly all the Buttons soldered on i started to work at the case. For this i used Autodesk Inventor and some DXF Exports from my Eagle drawings with the Button Layout. With this it was very Easy for me to draw the Frontpannel for example. After ive checked the Frontpannel with some Carboard Prototypes i send them to Cutworks to get the Frontpannel and the Holdpannel lasercutted from them.

http://midibox.org/forums/gallery/image/1713-ma4pc-drawing/

http://midibox.org/forums/gallery/image/1709-testingtroubleshooting/

http://midibox.org/forums/gallery/image/1712-ma4pc/

 

So ths is where i stand now i got my Buttons and LEDs to run with the MIO 128 Application and now i want to switch over to Midibox_NG and there is the Problem for me. I first saw the .NGC Config File i just saw CODE!!! It wasnt that bad when i started reading the User Manual but since ive updated to _NG i just had Problems and throwbacks. This is why i write this Post :smile:.

 

The Questions will be posted in the following posts. Hope you like it until now :smile:

 

best wishes Alexander

 

 

Ok here a bit of my Concept. All Buttons are scanned over a Single DOUT_SR (Number 16) and over the DIN_SR’s (1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10). The Goal is that every Button can send an own Midievent . So as i understood the .NGC  File i have to configure the DIN_MATRIX  with the following Command and with „ button_emu_id_offset“  i can force it to use the EVENT_BUTTON to configurate every Button at its own.

 

 

 

DIN_MATRIX n= 1   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 1 sr_din2= 0  button_emu_id_offset= 1

DIN_MATRIX n= 2   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 4 sr_din2= 0  button_emu_id_offset= 65

DIN_MATRIX n= 3   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 5 sr_din2= 0  button_emu_id_offset= 129

DIN_MATRIX n= 4   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 8 sr_din2= 0  button_emu_id_offset= 193

DIN_MATRIX n= 5   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 9 sr_din2= 0  button_emu_id_offset= 257

DIN_MATRIX n= 6   rows=8  inverted_sel=0  inverted_row=0  sr_dout_sel1= 16 sr_dout_sel2= 0  sr_din1= 10 sr_din2= 0 button_emu_id_offset= 321

 

So like this:

EVENT_BUTTON id=  64  type=NoteOn chn= 2 key= 0  range=  0:127  offset=  0  ports=1000100000001000

 

My Problem now is that its not working so MAybe someone can help me with that. The Only thing that happens ist that the first 6 DOUT_SR connected LEDs start to glow.

 

Any suggestions ?

Edited February 1, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[GMAprogrammer]

Here my Config until now. just configurated some buttons and heres also a matrix connection diagram.

 

The Numbers should be the Button IDs

DEFAULT.rar

Edited February 1, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[GMAprogrammer]

OK Midibox_NG is running :rofl: !

 

So just let me know what you think about this Project till this Point no help needed anymore :smile:

 

Best wishes Alexander

Edited February 2, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[TK.]

Very interesting story which will definitely help others to understand the possibilities with MBNG :)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[bibi]

Hi GMAprogrammer,

 

First, congratulation for your work, this is impressive!

 

I am in the same situation as you, 

 

I was first trying to make a control surface for preprogramming my shows at home, so I decide to built one from 2 BCF2000, then I found Chris's blog and was blowed by his work: I decided to move to midibox as well.

 

I passed lots of time looking at the forum and chris blog, and finally ordered the pcbs from smashTV.

 

I have some questions you maybe could answer to:

 

about linking software from grand ma on pc to midibox, mine is only working with version 6.5, did chris find a way to make his work with all versions without searching for the right adresses without recompile the software when a new update is coming?

 

- My project has two screens like yours, but grand ma on pc only allows for one view (I meen either exe 1 to 10, exe 11 to 20, or encoders. I thought I will put two computers in one session (also perfect for redundancy if one computer crashes) one for exe 1 to 10 screen, and one for the encoders screen. Did you find a trick to do it with one computer?

 

- Where did you find the numeric digitast caps? Did you do them on your own? Couldn't find them on the net…

 

Thanks in advance for any reply

 

here are some pics of the project, 

 

Best regards

 

Bibi

 

Edit: There was a problem with upload so I did it again, sorry!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://midibox.org/forums/gallery/image/1756-frontpanel/

 

Edited June 23, 2014 by bibi

[bibi]

Up! Nobody's reading this thread? GMAprogrammer where are you? Help me please ! :)

[GMAprogrammer]

Hey Bibi, Sorry that i Reply that late! Many Things to do over here.

 

So to answer ome of you Questions:

 

For all Questions about the Software i can not say anything about that because its Chris' on. And also i dont ha vry much Knowledge about this. My Projekt is Designed to work without a Driver at first and when i have the Time/Motivation for building a driver maybe with it. i interated the LEDs for Later Updates.

 

Two Screens: no there ist no possebility at the moment. I dont Think that your Solution will work because 2 Consoles/PCs in the same Session will not share one programmer so u cant realy use the second screen for Presets and stuff. For the Fader Labeling it would be a possebility.

 

There are Button Caps for Labeling aviable at Bürklin. Just search for them.

 

best wishes Alexander

Edited February 24, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[bibi]

Hi gma, thanks for your reply, it's my turn to apologie, didn't come here for a while...

For Chris software, no problem , I understand !

About the two onpc running in the same network, it is working, you need to configure them in "full tracking" mode, this is used as backup solution, so everything you do on one desk is reproduced on the other one

  with some exceptions : buttons to change between screen 1,2 and 3, 

Button to change between encoders, exebuttons, fader1/10 and 11/20. So basically,  with 3 onpc in the same network, we could have 20 faders and the 3 screens at the same time and make a fullsize desk

Thanks for the numeric caps, I'll take a look at!

I hope  your project is getting well, 

Mine go slowly for now  ;)

Best wishes

Bibi

Edit: I just remarked the "follow this topic" button ... Sorry about that :(

[GMAprogrammer]

Hello Midiboxers,

 

ok my Project comes to an end! :rofl: That means i will technicly finish it in the next weeks. But im struggeling with some of the Midibox NG Configuration to get it all running!

 

First of all i tried to use the dimmed Command to bring down the brightness Level of my Blue LEDs but that doesnt seem to work for me. When the LEDs are triggered from an external Midi Note over USB they light up with there standart brightness. So Do i really have to rip all my DOUTs apart and replace the resistors? Maybe someone can tell me what i'm doing wrong with this comand. Example will do i guess...

 

 

The Next Question would be the Midirouter. I tried to get my connected MF_NG Moduls to speak with the MIOS Studio but i didn't got that to work either... so what i basicly did i followed the User MAnual. But i'm not sure what i should use? the Midirouter or the MF_NG Configs... tried both of them and i cant get it to run. Maybe someone can explain what i need to set them to.

 

Would be great if you can help me :)

 

Thanks forward Alexander

 

[TK.]

First of all i tried to use the dimmed Command to bring down the brightness Level of my Blue LEDs but that doesnt seem to work for me. When the LEDs are triggered from an external Midi Note over USB they light up with there standart brightness. So Do i really have to rip all my DOUTs apart and replace the resistors? Maybe someone can tell me what i'm doing wrong with this comand. Example will do i guess...

 

With the enabled dim function the LED brightness will be controlled from the received MIDI value.

Which means: if your DAW sends a Note On with velocity 127, the LED would be lit with the full brightness level.

If it would send 64 instead, it would only be 50%

 

Are you able to control the sent velocity?

If not, a firmware extension could help.

 

 

 

The Next Question would be the Midirouter. I tried to get my connected MF_NG Moduls to speak with the MIOS Studio but i didn't got that to work either... so what i basicly did i followed the User MAnual. But i'm not sure what i should use? the Midirouter or the MF_NG Configs... tried both of them and i cant get it to run. Maybe someone can explain what i need to set them to.

 

I would propose to use the MIDI router first to try out the MIDI connections. Once they have been ensured, disable the MIDI router config, and use the forwarding via MF configuration instead.

 

MIDI Router: assumed, that the MBHP_MF_NG module is connected to MIDI IN3 and OUT3, write following commands into the MIOS terminal:

set router 1 USB3 all OUT3 all

set router 2 IN3 all USB3 all

 

Thereafter select the third USB IN/OUT port in MIOS Studio to communicate with the MBHP_MF_NG module.

 

(since this is a temporary check, no edits in the .NGC file necessary)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[GMAprogrammer]

Hi Thorsten,

 

-hereafter select the third USB IN/OUT port in MIOS Studio to communicate with the MBHP_MF_NG module.-

 

what if i have no 3. USB Port in the MIOS Studio? i have just one which is the GM5 port.

 

-Are you able to control the sent velocity?-

 

I'm theoreticly able to control it but then i will integrte an general software dimmer function in my selfwritten Application running on my PC. So i can adjust the brightnes On the fly :)

Edited May 12, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[TK.]

Do you mean with GM5 port, that you are working under Windows, installed the GM5 driver, and enabled the Single-USB option for your core module?

Or do you access the MBHP_CORE_LPC17 module via a GM5 MIDI interface (so: MIOS Studio communicates via IN1 and OUT1)?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[GMAprogrammer]

Well i guess im working under windows with just the gm5 driver, but ive not enabled anything with usb... just updated today to the last version of NG

 

EDIT: Ok i powered it up again and now i have 4 gm5 ports (guess it needed a restart) i tried your settings but it didnt work (used gm5 port 3 instead of USB3, but configured it as USB3 in the Router settings). :(

 

best regards Alexander

Edited May 12, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[TK.]

In order to ensure, that this isn't related to a Windows issue, could you please check the routing with a "known working" MIDI device?

 

E.g. you could connect a synth to MIDI OUT2 and check if you can play notes from the virtual keyboard of MIOS Studio to the synth with:

 

set router 1 USB2 all OUT2 all

 

And you could check the MIDI IN by connecting MIDI OUT of the synth to MIDI IN2, and using following command:

set router 2 IN2 all USB2 all

 

(Note: now we are using the second USB port instead of the third...)

 

Does this work?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[GMAprogrammer]

Hello Thorsten, as i have no other Midihardware hee i couldnt check the Windows settings but i have made some progress i think the problem is more on the side of the MF_NG Modules than on Side of the Core. When i connect one MF_NG Modul direktly to IN1/OUT1 and route it to USB2 it is recognized by the Core, but when i try to recieve the Current state from it with the MF_NG Tool it gives me an Error.

 

So i guess Core is doing fine so the Faulty Part should be the MF_NG Modules or the Cables ...

[GMAprogrammer]

Ok, ive managed to get the MF_NG Modules speaking with the Core and MIOS Studio. Now there is only the Configuration in the Midibox_NG left. i've attached the .NGC File so if you could take a quick look what might be wrong i would really apreciate it. Thanks TK for support. Best regards Alexander

DEFAULT.rar

Edited May 14, 2013 by GMAprogrammer

[TK.]

(btw.: .rar is a bad format for exchanging files platform independent... you should prefer .zip)

 

There are multiple errors:

 

 

n=1 enable=1 midi_in_port=IN1 midi_out:port=OUT1 config_port=USB1 chn=3

n=2 enable=1 midi_in_port=IN1 midi_out:port=OUT1 config_port=USB1 chn=3

 

1) the MF command is missing before n=

 

2) both modules are routed to the same configuration port - did you also configure separate device IDs in the PICs? The have to be != 0, and they have to be different for the two PICs.

If you want to avoid the requirement to use the device ID != 0, then use USB2, 3 or 4 (because your MIOS32 core listens to device ID 0, but only on USB1 and IN1)

If you want to avoid the requirement to use differennt device IDs for the PICs, then use config_port=USB2 for one, and config_port=USB3 for the other PIC

 

3) both modules are sending to the same MIDI channel - really?

Which channel did you configure in the MF tool configuration?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[GMAprogrammer]

Ok next time i will zip it ;)

 

My Modules are configured:

LP17 = ID 0

MF_NG 1 = ID 1

MF_NG 2 = ID 2

 

so i could use them all over USB port 1 i guess...

 

tried your you corrections but it isnt working properly. I Think i will Contact Chris maybe he can give me some support as he is more experienced in Electronics than me. Thanks for your Input If you haven any further Ideas what i could check let me know.

 

Alexander

[GMAprogrammer]

OK, Finaly ! I took me about 8 hours but my MF_NG Modules are working properly!

 

Now i have one Last Issue to fix and than it seems like my Midibox is working as it should ! But i will do some extension such as Banks and stuff. (BTW: Can i configure Banks for the MF_EVENTs? )

 

Thorsten if you can help me with my last Issue i would be really happy! I Have 2 Faders Connected directly to my LP_17 Core. The NG Configuration is clear for me that should work. The Problem is: when i plug in my Faders to J5A (as i should for Pot A0 and A1) the Core Dies! And i mean really Dies. It switches of until i unplugg the Faders and than it boots up again. At First i thought it might be a Cabling mistake but i've checked it and it seems to be fine...

 

If you have an Idea what gos wrong here let me know.

 

Best Regards Alexander

[TK.]

Can i configure Banks for the MF_EVENTs?

 

Yes, the same way like for other EVENTs

 

 

 

The Problem is: when i plug in my Faders to J5A (as i should for Pot A0 and A1) the Core Dies! And i mean really Dies. It switches of until i unplugg the Faders and than it boots up again. At First i thought it might be a Cabling mistake but i've checked it and it seems to be fine...

 

Sounds like a short circuit!

There is definitely a cabling mistake, please doublecheck it

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[GMAprogrammer]

Hello Everybody,

 

its coming to an End. In total that means the midibox is working like it should... some Errors i cant get fixed because they are Hardware Issues with Faders but i will fix them as soon as i will do the Final finish on my lighting Desk! Thanks again to TK for the help.

 

At Saturday i will have the first "Big" Gig with it. For Backupreasons there will be a professional Lighting desk next to mine which will take over control as soon as something strange happens with my MA4PC. But i wanted to take it to the test.

 

Here are some pictures... sorry for my english :/ its late and i'm tired...

 

 

 

Best Regards Alexander

 

More Infos at our Blog www.notapage.net next Week after the first Show. And i will def. Write some more Documentation here.

[bibi]

Hello there!

So, is this good news? Did it do the job?

Hope So :)!

[marco@mp]

hello Bibi, Sorry for my english, I'd rather write in Italian .... :-) First, congratulations for your projects, they are beautiful. I, like you, I started with 3 BCF2000 and a USB interface with 120 programmable keys. but a few months I'm working with midi-box GMAprogrammer because you do not feel it anymore, we want to continue this forum? look your news thank you very much

[bibi]

Hello Marco,

By my side I'm still on it! It's going slower as i've plenty of work beside... I will post pictures of the project updates soon. What do you plan to build for a programmer?

Best regards

Bibi

[bibi]

Hello Marco,

By my side I'm still on it! It's going slower as i've plenty of work beside... I will post pictures of the project updates soon. What do you plan to build for a programmer?

Best regards

Bibi