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MIOS Studio doesn't see bootloader


ChinMuzik

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I purchased 4 PIC's from Mike's shop. I've followed the workup below (as much as I could). But no matter what I've tried, MIOS studio cannot detect the bootloader.

Steps taken...

1. Tested loopback on interface. Loopback does work. When playing notes from virtual keyboard, messages show on in/out terminals. Random sysex strings also echo when typed in.

2. Correct ports are selected.

3. MIDI I/O of Core test out as "working". At this point, moved to Core Tests section 

4. Unable to tell if I stuffed a parallel cut 10mhz crystal. I ordered it from Tayda. There is no data on how it's cut. Only spec listed is the oscillation is "fundamental".

5. Cannot see any bad soldering. Reflowed all the joints just in case maybe a cold joint.

6. VDD of the power supply is good. 5v at all points.

7. Ground is good, almost zero resistance at all points.

8. Polarity of the midi plugs test good. 

9. Orientation of all diodes are correct

10. Resistor values are all correct

11. Test Core10 states 

 

"If you notice a lot of request messages like shown in this snapshot, then there is a short circuit between the Rx and Tx pin of the PIC. Check the tracks which are routed from the MIDI-Link port J11 to the Rx/Tx pins for direct connections (see the layout and schematic), you could scratch with a screw driver between the tracks to ensure that they are not connected together."

the input of MIOS Studio terminal DOES show these messages, however, there is no short of the TX and RX pins when checked with continuity tester.

also of note, this persistent messaging only occurs with 2 of the 4 PIC installed. The other 2 do not created this message flooding, but the bootloader is not detected on them either.

these were purchased from Mikes shop.

12. Test Core11 performed. Soldered a 2200uf cap in place of the 10uf in C3 and checked soldering on C1

 

This did not work either.

 

I tried several different outlets to no avail. Am I missing something?

 

 

Edited by ChinMuzik
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2 minutes ago, latigid on said:

Are you using the correct device ID (left hand side) for your PICs? If the set was for MB-6582, there should be different IDs printed on the top of each.

Mike only ships the PIC with the bootloader. From my understanding, the device ID can only be assigned when MIOS is flashed to the PIC. 

I've tested all 4 PIC in each of the 4 cores with the appropriate jumper selected. The same results happen. 2 of the PIC flood the input terminal...2 do nothing. 

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4 minutes ago, latigid on said:

If you have one "Core" position where one PIC works and another doesn't, maybe it's a problem with those PICs? If you're in Germany, you could send me the PICs and I'd check them for you.

Technically, none of them work. They just "don't work" in different ways lol. Which is why I believe it to not be the PICs..Unless the they weren't burned with the bootloader. But Mike explicitly said they would be. 

I'm in the states, it might be more cost effective to get a clone PickIt2. Just that it would suck to buy it and it not be the issue.

 

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Back to device ID, the ID is set as part of the bootloader burn. Even if all of your chips are the 0000 address, you'll need to change them to work with the MB-6582. 

Maybe order a reputable crystal rather than one from Tayda. If it's out of spec the Core won't know what to do.

For swapping Cores, what is correct?

  • all of the PICs work in some of the positions
    • implication: the PICs are fine, the PCB is not
  • at least one PIC works in all of the positions
    • implication: at least one of the PICs is fine, the PCB is good.
  • some PICs work in some positions, but not others, 
    • implication: SNAFU

 

Edited by latigid on
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Ok, tried again.

I've attached photo to show exactly what happens.

The first photo show the messages that flood when I turn the PSU on with any 3 of the 4 PIC loaded in any single core.

The second picture shows what happens when I query the same 3 of the 4 PIC's

The third picture shows a different message that will OCCASIONALLY appear when doing a query. 

These events are the same in all positions on the PCB and no matter what Device ID is set in MIOS

 

The 4th PIC generates no messages no matter where it's seated.

IMG_20170316_153001.jpg

IMG_20170316_153008.jpg

IMG_20170316_153018.jpg

Edited by ChinMuzik
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So, probably either no bootloader is installed, the MIDI communication has a hardware issue or the PSU is causing the PICs to not initialise properly. 

You can perform a reset at the PIC: once the PSU has stabilised, briefly (< 1s) connect pin #1 to 0v (ground)  with a jumper wire -- make sure it's on the PIC side and not on the other side of resistor R1.

Do you have other PICs to test with? If you have a known hardware build it might be worth swapping some parts around

 

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Just curious, what other parts (if any) did you order from Tayda? 99.9% of the time, Tayda parts are OK, but every once in awhile they'll send out bad batches of parts, and sometimes those parts are not truly broken but just way out of spec. Just a random thought, maybe you get lucky.

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I buy all my resistors, ceramic caps, diodes, some transistors, jacks and sockets from Tayda.

I don't buy pots, IC's and electrolytics and film/mylar caps from them. 

I did buy the shift registers for the MB build from them though. 

Even the caps and resistors I buy I test with this handy little thing (pictured).

 

Also: back to the troubleshooting. Reset at the PIC didn't help...and I am pretty sure the 10mhz crystals are parallel cut, I remember someone telling me values that low are almost always parallel cut. One other thing on that, even if it was serial cut..Doesn't the PIC force the crystal to oscillate how it wants? 

 

One more last ditch attempt before I dump the funds on a Pickit2...I didn't check the following (because the test flow considered both I/O to be functional). 

  • TEST OUT3: Somebody noticed in the forum, that the MIDI Out of his core module didn't work because of an "incompatibility issue" with the bench supply he used and the switching PSU of his PC. The solution was to disconnect the middle pin of J12 (ground line of MIDI Out port)

What is J12 represented as on the mb6582 PCB? I can't seem to locate it.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20170316_182910.jpg

Edited by ChinMuzik
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  • 3 weeks later...

So my PICkit2 came in today. I loaded the PIC into the ZIF and the application detected it as the 18f6485 family...

I burned the bootloader hex successfully and verified it successfully. But when stuffing it in the mb6582 base PCB, MIOS Studio still isn't seeing it. But sees the PIC I purchased from Tim with no issue. 

Also, when I take the PICs I purchased from Mike back to the PIC programmer, it can no longer verify the program and it cannot be deleted either. It will show deleted but when doing a blank check it will fail.

What are the odds of having 4 bad chips? Could they be counterfeit possibly?

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So I ended up exporting the .hex from the preburned PIC I received from SmashTV and then flashing it to each PIC I received from Mike, then changing each ID with the change_id app. Successful, MIOS sees all 4 cores.

Still would like to know why it was failing to see the PIC after burning the bootloader.

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Just had a weird revelation. 

After burning the bootloader, even though MIOS studio doesn't send any message that the bootloader is detected, it clearly sees the bootloader as it will allow the uploading of MIOS and the LCD driver. 

Is this a know quirk of MIOS studio or am I just overlooking some obvious indication that the bootloader is being detected?

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  • 2 weeks later...

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