jdutcher Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 hi,i just finished building my first midibox sid (first mbhp experience), but i'm having some trouble getting it to work. Â every time i turn it on, the lcd flashes (lights up and dies within a second). Â i did a pretty thorough check for shorts, etc. but found nothing. Â and this isn't the first thing i've ever built, so i'm pretty sure i did everything right. Â as i was assembling it, i tested the power at various points on the ics (core and sid), as instructed in the documentation. Â everything was normal. Â basically, something must have happened between then and assembling everything. Â if anyone has any ideas of where to start troubleshooting or if you've seen this before, please let me know. Â i'm going to build the proper midi cables to interface with my sound card tomorrow, so i'll be able to see if it's just an lcd issue or if it's more than that.quick notes: 6581 SID, C64 PSU, 2x40 LCD, pic18f burned by SmashTVthanks!james Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goyousalukis Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 You are on the right track. Unhook the LCD and see if you get the sysex messages from the bootstrap loader. You won't get anything on the LCD (other than blocks) until you load MIOS via sysex. Once you load MIOS, you will see a boot up screen and then READY . Other than that, double and triple check all your connections. Do you have the transistor in its proper orientation? Many people reverse that. Every problem I've ever had resulted from some poor connection or a dumb mistake on my part. You don't have to have the SID module hooked up to the core in order to test it. If you used easily disconectable cables, you might want to unhook it in order to cut down on what might be wrong. Good Luck....Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 grrrr....frustrating. thanks for the input, goyousalukis. here's what i was able to find out:1. i've checked and checked, but i still can't find any connection problems. of course, there were those times when i would say "aha! there's the problem!" and then i would check 3 times more and realize that my eyes had deceived me. sigh...but that's beside the point.2. the voltages on the core look good (all 5 volts). i used the pin to pin checks included on the core page. however, the voltages on the sid (when connected to the core), the voltages were 3V instead of 5V in all cases. the chips and lcd were removed for these tests. any thoughts, anybody?3. trying to send sysex commands to the core with no luck. all i get is a series of random midi events every few seconds. at least it's speaking... however, i get no sysex request(s), etc. keep in mind that the bare sid circuit (no chips) is connected. please don't make me cut anymore wires... the software/connection is set up 100% perfectly and i've tried every bit of help on the midi troubleshooting page, but no luck. (loopback works)here's a little excerpt of the stuff that the input monitor spits out when i turn on my box:TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 000042F7 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 000042F7 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 000042F8 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004305 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004308 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004308 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004309 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004311 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004314 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004314 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004315 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004316 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004317 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004317 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004319 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004319 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 0000431A 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004323 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004323 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004324 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004325 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004325 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004326 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 00004328 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004328 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004329 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 0000432A 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 0000432F 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004331 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004332 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 00004332 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano and it (the first series) ends like this.......... 0000465B 1 -- E0 00 01 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000465C 1 -- E0 01 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000465D 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000465F 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 0000465F 1 -- E0 01 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004660 1 -- E0 03 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004660 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004662 1 -- FF -- -- -- --- System Reset 0000466B 1 -- E0 2C 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000466D 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000466E 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 0000466E 1 -- E0 01 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000466F 1 -- E0 03 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004670 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000467D 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 0000467D 1 -- E0 00 01 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000467E 1 -- E0 03 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000467F 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004680 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004680 1 -- E0 03 48 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000468E 1 -- E0 03 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000468E 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000468F 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 00004690 1 -- E0 01 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 00004691 1 -- E0 03 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 0000469F 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 0000469E 1 -- C0 01 -- 1 --- PC: Brite Acc. Piano 0000469F 1 -- C0 03 -- 1 --- PC: Honky-Tonk Piano 000046A0 1 -- C0 03 -- 1 --- PC: Honky-Tonk Piano 000046A0 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 000046AF 1 -- E0 1A 03 1 --- Pitch Bend 000046B0 1 -- E0 00 00 1 --- Pitch Bend 000046B1 1 -- FE -- -- -- --- Active Sensing 000046B1 1 -- FF -- -- -- --- System Reset 000046B2 1 -- FF -- -- -- --- System Reset 000046B2 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano 000046C0 1 -- C0 00 -- 1 --- PC: Acc. Grand Piano i randomly tried sending the sysex without the request, so maybe it's just spitting out the garbage that i forcefed it.any help is much appreciated, as i am pulling my hair out over here.thanks!james Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goyousalukis Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hmm,I assume you don't have a chip programmer if you had smashTV burn it for you? Do you know if smashTV only burned the bootstrap loader, or did he burn the SID app as well? It almost looks like you have a MidiBox64 loaded with no pots connected(random midi events).If you can't completely disconnect the SID board without cutting wires, I wouldn't test with one board stuffed with chips and the other not stuffed.You should definately be getting 5v at all the proper places on the SID board. This board gets its 5V from the core, so start there and work your way to the core checking voltages. What is the midi output with the SID board chips stuffed? Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Do you know if smashTV only burned the bootstrap loader, or did he burn the SID app as well? Bootloader only, Always. :)Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 hey,thanks again for your help, goyousalukis. i can't test anything right now because i'm on vacation, but i'll be back in a couple of days and get a response to you then. i realize this post is a bit unnecessary, but i just wanted people to know that these issues are still unresolved and any ideas are welcome. in the meantime, i do have another question: smashtv sent me a core v1 board which is different from the board that is used in the documentation (v2 board, i think). anyway, i made all of the jumper corrections that are listed in the changelog (pic pin change and jumper connection between sid and core), but is there a chance that the older board won't work with the updated jumper configurations?thanksjames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 in the meantime, i do have another question: smashtv sent me a core v1 board which is different from the board that is used in the documentation (v2 board, i think). Heya James! The vX (or rX) designations I give to the boards are only for id during fabrication.anyway, i made all of the jumper corrections that are listed in the changelog (pic pin change and jumper connection between sid and core), but is there a chance that the older board won't work with the updated jumper configurations?thanksjamesNo chance.....All of my core boards work with all versions of MIOS. There is build info for my boards at http://mbhp.coinoptech.com/mbhp_core.html including current Eagle layout and a jumper chart.Let me know if you have other questions :)SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkmansound Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 wait - so this jumper chart is for MIOS 7?I notice that my jumpers are different, it goes to one of the pins of J8 near pin 21 of the PIC - I too am having difficulty uploading MIOS, but I am still attempting to load 6 since I have no plans to use the DOUT. (apologies for thread pirating, but this confused me) - Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 From this page we get: MIOS V1.7 hardware modsBankStick connection to the CoreThe IIC clock line J4:SC (BankStick) is now connected to pin (#28/RD5) of the core module. Thats an easy change, since it's normaly an isolated cable. Take a look into the MBHP_CORE schematic or the MBHP_CORE PCB quick view to locate the correct pin.The relevant part of the CORE schematic:So for MIOS 1.6 and below the jumper goes to pin 22,and for MIOS 1.7 (and above) it goes to pin 28.Here is the quick view for my boards annotated below:Note that future versions of the CORE board from my shop will have a via/padon pin 28 for the jumper, and the pin 22 jumper via/pad is gone. There will bea new build page on my site that shows these changes when it's time. :)Best!SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkmansound Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 ok - so I can still rock 1.6 if I can get it on there... or I can spend the 3 seconds and do the 1.7 mods. Thanks! - T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 hmmmm, this is embarrassing....all this talk about the pic pin28 jumper got me thinking....and as soon as i glanced at my board after reading the posts, i realized that i had connected the jumper to pin 29 instead of 28 by accident. Â somehow, the bankstick was connected to pin 28, but not the sc jumper. Â however, when i fixed the problem and rushed back to my computer, the midi input monitor was still spitting out the same garbage and there is no sysex request. Â needless to say, i am quite discouraged. Â anyway, is there any chance that i may have fried my pic? Â i'm thinking that it wouldn't spit out anything if i did, but i don't know. Â if it is dead: smash, expect an email very very soon. :)i'm off to quintuple check my connections....thanksjamesp.s. milkmansound: it turns out your "thread pirating" was a bit more pertinent than you thought. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per S Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Have you checked The in-circuit programming adapter, connector J3 that all 5 jumpers are installed and OK?Per S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 hi schultz,thanks for the input. yes, those jumpers are in place and fully functional.tomorrow i'll solder the lcd back on and see if i get anything different on the screen since the pic pin28 jumper change. i'm extremely doubtful though...arg....all i wanna do is start making some music with this thing!thanksjames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Whoop!I'm not sure how it would act with the SC on pin 29, but with a bankstick attached it would effect the LCD. 2. the voltages on the core look good (all 5 volts). i used the pin to pin checks included on the core page. however, the voltages on the sid (when connected to the core), the voltages were 3V instead of 5V in all cases. the chips and lcd were removed for these tests. any thoughts, anybody? So does the CORE keep it's +5v even when the SID reads low?The only way you should be reading +5 on the CORE and less on the SID is a bad cable (J10-J2) between them. If a short or miswire somewhere on the SID board were present to cause the low voltage, it would drag the CORE +5 low with it. With no power you should check that there is no resistance across this cable.Be sure to keep those chips out of the SID until all voltages are correct.Don't give up on it yet, I know it's frustrating but when it springs to life it will be worth the effort..... ;)BestSmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkmansound Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Yarr - the thread pirate. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 heyso i've just spent a million years soldering the lcd back on there (all those teeny connections are quite a headache) and i tested the core pin voltages (as instructed on the core page) without any chips. now it's reading ~3.5v on all counts!!! sounds like something is wrong with the wiring, i guess. if you remember, the voltages were up at 5 before i added the lcd. any ideas of where to look first? i really really really don't want to remove the lcd anymore. if i have to, i'm gonna have to buy some sort of connector, i guess, so i don't have to do any more soldering. i know i could've done that in the first place, but it's late and i wanted to test it out.thanksjames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkmansound Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 Is your regulator getting hot? Or the luminance transistor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 no, neither is heating up unless it takes more than a few minutes to tell or if the chips need to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted July 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 i know i'm not giving people much to go on, but i'm still struggling to get this thing running. i'm not having much luck poking around by myself. all i can really do at this point is make sure that everything is connected properly. does anyone have any suggestions at all as to where to test for voltages, etc? i'm debating whether or not to start over from scratch. while this would be an annoying time/money setback, maybe it makes sense. for one thing, i'll start using female connectors rather than soldering things directly to the board/headers. any help/ideas/suggestions would be extremely helpful.thanksjames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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