new midibox sid flashes and dies

[jdutcher]

hi,

i just finished building my first midibox sid (first mbhp experience), but i'm having some trouble getting it to work.  every time i turn it on, the lcd flashes (lights up and dies within a second).  i did a pretty thorough check for shorts, etc. but found nothing.  and this isn't the first thing i've ever built, so i'm pretty sure i did everything right.  as i was assembling it, i tested the power at various points on the ics (core and sid), as instructed in the documentation.  everything was normal.  basically, something must have happened between then and assembling everything.  if anyone has any ideas of where to start troubleshooting or if you've seen this before, please let me know.  i'm going to build the proper midi cables to interface with my sound card tomorrow, so i'll be able to see if it's just an lcd issue or if it's more than that.

quick notes: 6581 SID, C64 PSU, 2x40 LCD, pic18f burned by SmashTV

thanks!

james

[goyousalukis]

You are on the right track. Unhook the LCD and see if you get the sysex messages from the bootstrap loader. You won't get anything on the LCD (other than blocks) until you load MIOS via sysex. Once you load MIOS, you will see a boot up screen and then READY . Other than that, double and triple check all your connections. Do you have the transistor in its proper orientation? Many people reverse that. Every problem I've ever had resulted from some poor connection or a dumb mistake on my part. You don't have to have the SID module hooked up to the core in order to test it. If you used easily disconectable cables, you might want to unhook it in order to cut down on what might be wrong.

Good Luck....

Justin

[jdutcher]

grrrr....frustrating.  thanks for the input, goyousalukis.  here's what i was able to find out:

1. i've checked and checked, but i still can't find any connection problems.  of course, there were those times when i would say "aha!  there's the problem!" and then i would check 3 times more and realize that my eyes had deceived me.  sigh...but that's beside the point.

2. the voltages on the core look good (all 5 volts).  i used the pin to pin checks included on the core page.  however, the voltages on the sid (when connected to the core), the voltages were 3V instead of 5V in all cases.  the chips and lcd were removed for these tests.  any thoughts, anybody?

3. trying to send sysex commands to the core with no luck.  all i get is a series of random midi events every few seconds.  at least it's speaking...  however, i get no sysex request(s), etc.  keep in mind that the bare sid circuit (no chips) is connected.  please don't make me cut anymore wires...  the software/connection is set up 100% perfectly and i've tried every bit of help on the midi troubleshooting page, but no luck.  (loopback works)

here's a little excerpt of the stuff that the input monitor spits out when i turn on my box:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT              

000042F7   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

000042F7   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

000042F8   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004305   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004308   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004308   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004309   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004311   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004314   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004314   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004315   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004316   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004317   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004317   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004319   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004319   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

0000431A   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004323   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004323   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004324   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004325   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004325   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004326   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

00004328   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004328   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004329   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

0000432A   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

0000432F   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004331   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004332   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

00004332   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

and it (the first series) ends like this..........

0000465B   1  --     E0    00    01    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000465C   1  --     E0    01    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000465D   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000465F   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

0000465F   1  --     E0    01    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004660   1  --     E0    03    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004660   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004662   1  --     FF    --    --   --  ---  System Reset          

0000466B   1  --     E0    2C    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000466D   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000466E   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

0000466E   1  --     E0    01    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000466F   1  --     E0    03    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004670   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000467D   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

0000467D   1  --     E0    00    01    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000467E   1  --     E0    03    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000467F   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004680   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004680   1  --     E0    03    48    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000468E   1  --     E0    03    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000468E   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000468F   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

00004690   1  --     E0    01    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

00004691   1  --     E0    03    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

0000469F   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

0000469E   1  --     C0    01    --    1  ---  PC: Brite Acc. Piano  

0000469F   1  --     C0    03    --    1  ---  PC: Honky-Tonk Piano  

000046A0   1  --     C0    03    --    1  ---  PC: Honky-Tonk Piano  

000046A0   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

000046AF   1  --     E0    1A    03    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

000046B0   1  --     E0    00    00    1  ---  Pitch Bend            

000046B1   1  --     FE    --    --   --  ---  Active Sensing        

000046B1   1  --     FF    --    --   --  ---  System Reset          

000046B2   1  --     FF    --    --   --  ---  System Reset          

000046B2   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

000046C0   1  --     C0    00    --    1  ---  PC: Acc. Grand Piano  

i randomly tried sending the sysex without the request, so maybe it's just spitting out the garbage that i forcefed it.

any help is much appreciated, as i am pulling my hair out over here.

thanks!

james

[goyousalukis]

Hmm,

I assume you don't have a chip programmer if you had smashTV burn it for you? Do you know if smashTV only burned the bootstrap loader, or did he burn the SID app as well? It almost looks like you have a MidiBox64 loaded with no pots connected(random midi events).

If you can't completely disconnect the SID board without cutting wires, I wouldn't test with one board stuffed with chips and the other not stuffed.

You should definately be getting 5v at all the proper places on the SID board. This board gets its 5V from the core, so start there and work your way to the core checking voltages.

What is the midi output with the SID board chips stuffed?

Justin

[smashtv]

Do you know if smashTV only burned the bootstrap loader, or did he burn the SID app as well?

Bootloader only, Always.   :)

Smash

[jdutcher]

hey,

thanks again for your help, goyousalukis.  i can't test anything right now because i'm on vacation, but i'll be back in a couple of days and get a response to you then.  i realize this post is a bit unnecessary, but i just wanted people to know that these issues are still unresolved and any ideas are welcome.  in the meantime, i do have another question: smashtv sent me a core v1 board which is different from the board that is used in the documentation (v2 board, i think).  anyway, i made all of the jumper corrections that are listed in the changelog (pic pin change and jumper connection between sid and core), but is there a chance that the older board won't work with the updated jumper configurations?

thanks

james

[smashtv]

in the meantime, i do have another question: smashtv sent me a core v1 board which is different from the board that is used in the documentation (v2 board, i think).

Heya James!  The vX (or rX) designations I give to the boards are only for id during fabrication.

anyway, i made all of the jumper corrections that are listed in the changelog (pic pin change and jumper connection between sid and core), but is there a chance that the older board won't work with the updated jumper configurations?

thanks

james

No chance.....All of my core boards work with all versions of MIOS.  There is build info for my boards at http://mbhp.coinoptech.com/mbhp_core.html including current Eagle layout and a jumper chart.

Let me know if you have other questions  :)

SmashTV

[Milkmansound]

wait - so this jumper chart is for MIOS 7?

I notice that my jumpers are different, it goes to one of the pins of J8 near pin 21 of the PIC - I too am having difficulty uploading MIOS, but I am still attempting to load 6 since I have no plans to use the DOUT. (apologies for thread pirating, but this confused me) - Tim

[smashtv]

From this page we get:

MIOS V1.7 hardware mods

BankStick connection to the Core

The IIC clock line J4:SC (BankStick) is now connected to pin (#28/RD5) of the core module. Thats an easy change, since it's normaly an isolated cable. Take a look into the MBHP_CORE schematic or the MBHP_CORE PCB quick view to locate the correct pin.

The relevant part of the CORE schematic:

So for MIOS 1.6 and below the jumper goes to pin 22,

and for MIOS 1.7 (and above) it goes to pin 28.

Here is the quick view for my boards annotated below:

Note that future versions of the CORE board from my shop will have a via/pad

on pin 28 for the jumper, and the pin 22 jumper via/pad is gone.  There will be

a new build page on my site that shows these changes when it's time. :)

Best!

SmashTV

[Milkmansound]

ok - so I can still rock 1.6 if I can get it on there... or I can spend the 3 seconds and do the 1.7 mods. Thanks! - T

[jdutcher]

hmmmm, this is embarrassing....

all this talk about the pic pin28 jumper got me thinking....and as soon as i glanced at my board after reading the posts, i realized that i had connected the jumper to pin 29 instead of 28 by accident.  somehow, the bankstick was connected to pin 28, but not the sc jumper.  however, when i fixed the problem and rushed back to my computer, the midi input monitor was still spitting out the same garbage and there is no sysex request.  needless to say, i am quite discouraged.  anyway, is there any chance that i may have fried my pic?  i'm thinking that it wouldn't spit out anything if i did, but i don't know.  if it is dead: smash, expect an email very very soon. :)

i'm off to quintuple check my connections....

thanks

james

p.s. milkmansound: it turns out your "thread pirating" was a bit more pertinent than you thought. ;)

[Per S]

Have you checked The in-circuit programming adapter, connector J3 that all 5 jumpers are installed and OK?

Per S

[jdutcher]

hi schultz,

thanks for the input.  yes, those jumpers are in place and fully functional.

tomorrow i'll solder the lcd back on and see if i get anything different on the screen since the pic pin28 jumper change.  i'm extremely doubtful though...

arg....all i wanna do is start making some music with this thing!

thanks

james

[smashtv]

Whoop!

I'm not sure how it would act with the SC on pin 29, but with a bankstick attached it would effect the LCD.

2. the voltages on the core look good (all 5 volts).  i used the pin to pin checks included on the core page.  however, the voltages on the sid (when connected to the core), the voltages were 3V instead of 5V in all cases.  the chips and lcd were removed for these tests.  any thoughts, anybody?

So does the CORE keep it's +5v even when the SID reads low?

The only way you should be reading +5 on the CORE and less on the SID is a bad cable (J10-J2) between them.  If a short or miswire somewhere on the SID board were present to cause the low voltage, it would drag the CORE +5 low with it.  With no power you should check that there is no resistance across this cable.

Be sure to keep those chips out of the SID until all voltages are correct.

Don't give up on it yet, I know it's frustrating but when it springs to life it will be worth the effort.....  ;)

Best

SmashTV

[Milkmansound]

Yarr - the thread pirate. 8)

[jdutcher]

hey

so i've just spent a million years soldering the lcd back on there (all those teeny connections are quite a headache) and i tested the core pin voltages (as instructed on the core page) without any chips.  now it's reading ~3.5v on all counts!!!  sounds like something is wrong with the wiring, i guess.  if you remember, the voltages were up at 5 before i added the lcd.  any ideas of where to look first?  i really really really don't want to remove the lcd anymore.  if i have to, i'm gonna have to buy some sort of connector, i guess, so i don't have to do any more soldering.  i know i could've done that in the first place, but it's late and i wanted to test it out.

thanks

james

[Milkmansound]

Is your regulator getting hot? Or the luminance transistor?

[jdutcher]

no, neither is heating up unless it takes more than a few minutes to tell or if the chips need to be in.

[jdutcher]

i know i'm not giving people much to go on, but i'm still struggling to get this thing running.  i'm not having much luck poking around by myself.  all i can really do at this point is make sure that everything is connected properly.  does anyone have any suggestions at all as to where to test for voltages, etc?  i'm debating whether or not to start over from scratch.  while this would be an annoying time/money setback, maybe it makes sense.  for one thing, i'll start using female connectors rather than soldering things directly to the board/headers.  any help/ideas/suggestions would be extremely helpful.

thanks

james