What Monitor Boxes do you have?

[pay_c]

Hi there again!

I know that I´m posting lot of micellaneous stuff in the last time, but hey whatever...  ;)

So: What monitor boxes do you all use in your studios? And what are your experiences with those? What can you recommend?

Reason: I had a pair of Behringer 2031 and they were pretty good (especially for THAT price!). But they started to clirr (is that the right word for the german "klirren"??) after about 1 1/2 years, so I gave them back. I was pretty upset, cause I had to hear myself in to new boxes now... so the next ones were Fostex PM2 - 200 Euros more money! And now it comes: They are much more bad than the Behringers!! Really! The heights are not so brilliant and a little nerving and the bass amp is absolutely underdimensioned (it gives up really soon). So I´ll give those back, too.

As you see, I start getting nerved. I just want some boxes I can have for the next years, so I don´t have to listen in once per year. So what can you recommend? Thomann told me that passive Adam ANF10 plus a good Samsung Amp would be a good starting point below 1000 Euros. What do you say? My favourites are active boxes, as the biamping has it´s clear advantages.

Discussion started!  ;D

PS: THNX again and again! I think most people here do know stuff much better than any salesman out there...

[Screaming_Rabbit]

Hey Pay_C

I just bought me a 5.1 IDP setup of Tannoy Ellipse 8. I worked 3 weeks with them and then decided to buy the setup.

Just the way it is when you're looking for the perfect monitors, I'm happy with the quality right now but it takes longer to be able to say: "Yes... that's what I was looking for"

I was lucky to get this deal. It's a 20'000 Euros setup and I bought it for 8'000. It was used on 2 audio fairs for demonstration and is in mint condition.

In my employees studio we have Genelec 1032 (with and without Subs), 1030 and K&H O198.

- The K&Hs are out of date... they sound kind "dusty" :P

- The Genelecs are making the audio "sounding nice". I

 have big trouble to make my mixes compatible with

 average playback systems (car, hifi) :-/

It seems that you're looking for a "cheap" solution:

I heard a lot of good comments about ADAMs line. I never heard one till today but I think you should give them a try. BTW they're also available in active.

Another system I'd like to encourage you to try: Tannoy Revenge (Revenge or something like this... not quit shure about they're called exactly like that). They're active or passive and I saw, that they're on sale by many distributors. Very good sounding speakers.

I also heard good things (specially price/performance ratio) about Mackie's line

My favorite: K&H O300 with C28 processor or O500 (built in processor)... AMAZING sounding! Since I had to buy a surround system, they were just not affortable for me.

My suggestion: ALWAYS take a system home and try them over at least a week! You can't make a wise final decision in a showroom in just one or a few hours. You need to listen to different recordings you know in and out. You have to be in different moods (vital and sleepy). And you have to do a mix on the system to compare with your existing work and to listen in the car and hifi system.

These are my personal statements and I know it's a difficult task and depends on personal opignens... so please no fights if someone likes Genelec! There must be a lot of happy Genelec users... they sell good ;)

Greets, Roger

[Jack]

How about DIY?

I can send U some HobbyHifi or Klang&Ton Scans if U want?

(German: Du kannst aber auch zu www.thomann.de, 50km von Erlangen entfernt. Dort hast Du eine große Auswahl und die Möglichkeit den passenden Lautsprecher zu testen, bevor du ihn kauft. Mein Tipp: nimm eine passende CD zum Testen mit, die haben leider nur Eros da.)

Jack

[moebius]

Err..

Genelecs! (maybe the new 80xx series?)

I don't have a pair (or any decent speakers ;)), but have listened various models.

[religious war]

- The Genelecs are making the audio "sounding nice". I

 have big trouble to make my mixes compatible with

 average playback systems (car, hifi) :-/

Yes - The effect is called being neutral. It's easier to get "that sparkle" - when monitoring system and target systems need to be compensated in the same way ;)

BTW they're also available in active.

And strangely price is up to compete with Genelec 1030A's.. I didn't realise amps were that expensive - or is it the EQ? ;)

so please no fights if someone likes Genelec!

Of course not!

There must be a lot of happy Genelec users...

Like rest of the world maybe? Have you have listened to radio today?

they sell good ;)

For the reason.

[/religious war]

Bye, Moebius

[seppoman]

Hi all,

I don´t have "professional monitoring" at home, just a very good HiFi - B&W Preference 6 with a Camtech/Audiolab V102 amp. These are very precise for HiFi systems but of course no studio monitors. Nevertheless in my opinion a mix that doesn´t sound good here doesn´t sound good on most other systems. For cutting at home I often use my AKG K240 headphones.

At university we have some Genelec, K&H and Geithain (sp?) systems. I confess I´m also from the anti-Genelec league. I just don´t have fun listening to music through Genelecs. Strange argument for an audio engineer, I know, but if I don´t like what I hear when listening to top recordings I´ll never like what I mix myself. Surely you can identify technical mistakes very well on them, but they are so agressive and annoying (and especially the smaller ones are totally overpriced). Ok this was my part in the religious war ;)

ME Geithain builds very good monitors - if you want to spend some money definitely listen to them. Some students from university bought them - the company is located somewhere in Thüringen (Germany), you can visit them and listen to everything, they are very friendly and helpful and also give (inofficial) student discounts. But even then they´re still a bit pricey (starting at about 1000 Euros).

I once listened to Adam monitors at the Tonmeistertagung. They have really extreme high frequencies that sound very unnatural IMHO. Possibly PA people like them after hanging around unprotected on rock concerts for 20 years... ;)

If you´re searching cheap monitors, try out Alesis M1! Of course I wouldn´t install them above a SSL desk, but they make really good sound for the money (active _pair_ costs less than one single Genelec 1029 and sounds much better - oops, stop the war ;))

Seppoman

P.S. Everything highly subjective of course. And I´m still a student and have way less experience than someone who´s been commercially working for years in this business (Roger, some other post from you sounded like you work for the DRS - just guessing?)

[smashtv]

wow holy war indeed!   ;D

I started several mixes on a set of Genlecs in a local studio quite a few years back and was never really happy......I have always cheated by swapping in my own speaks, amp, room EQ and crossover when things don't sound good in the room I'm working in.   :-/  

(I don't mean to sound like a gear snob, but when you arrive at a studio and find KRK(?) speaks on top of a M*ckie console, does it not make sense to use better gear instead if you already have it?)

That said a pair of decent Tannoys and an Crown/Amcron D-series power amp are the low-cash way to a pretty open and true system.

Seems the B*ringer monitors burn through drivers, the Alesis sound like......well......built for cost not sound quality.

In some of the high end studios a Tannoy/Hot House rig was the usual thing, and those sound really really good.

Way too much hype and audiophoolery on this stuff.

listen, compare, repeat.  :)

Best!

Smash

[pay_c]

;D ;D

I see... not.  ;D ;D ;D

Yeah, active monitors is highly subjective as the most of you stated, too. Tomorrow I´ll drive to "Thomann" (Hi Jack!  ;)) and listen to some setups. Especially the ADAM stuff and the Tannoy Reveal system + Subwoofer (@Screaming Rabbit: Reveal!  ;D) - with sub cause the Reveals got a pretty high cutting frequency when it comes to bases. I´ll also try the Genelecs, but to be true, I´m hearing so MUCH controversing stuff about those boxes I´m pretty unsure about them (even those "Thomann" people said they do overpaint the mids in some way)... soooooo....

So I´ll just listen again... 8)

As long as I got no decision:

/Holywarmodus=1

;)

Greetz&Thnx. As I have some after tomorrow, I´ll tell you about them.

PS: @ScreamingRabbit: 8000 Euros is a *BIT* heavy for me. I planned in a max of about 1000 Euros.

[AndrewMartens]

Wow, you guys are serious about your monitoring.  

I usually switch between my Fostex T40RP headphones (pretty decent) and a pair of 18-year-old JBL speakers connected to a similarly-aged Yamaha receiver that's starting to show its age.  Then I'll listen to a final mix of the track on my generic DVD player and my car's stock audio system to see if there are any major shortcomings.

It may not be high quality or very impressive, but it works well enough for me! :)

[Screaming_Rabbit]

@Seppoman

;) yes.... how did you guess?

@AndrewMartens

It may not be high quality or very impressive, but it works well enough for me!

... if it works for you and you're work/product is exactly the way you want... You must be the happiest audio engineer around ;D

A petty for me is, that I'm doing a big range of audio material. Professional: speach, layout and drama production / parttime professional: music / and now: (not making money yet  ;) ) movie sound.

I think this gave me an even harder time selecting than I experienced ever before.  ???

I hope I stay happy with my Tannoy Ellipse system  8)

Greets, Roger

[Jack]

Offtopic DIY question:

Why you are not build your own loudspeaker?

You can save a lot of money and you optimized it with your own beliefs.

Jack

[Screaming_Rabbit]

Heya Jack

Another project? Developing on accoustics and psychoaccoustics? ... oh my god...please not! - I hope to get my LC Controller finished before MIDI 1 dies and my host SW doesn't support this control protocol anymore  ;D :-/ :-[ ::)

Greets, Roger

[seppoman]

Hi Roger,

@Seppoman

;) yes.... how did you guess?

from this post: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1093042232;start=3#3

I supposed a station with 6 programs, including radio dramas etc. and especially with few compression, must be "öffentlich-rechtlich" :)

Best,

Sherlock ;)

[pay_c]

Hey there!

@Jack: Cause you have to watch so f***ing dammit lot of stuff. There is the phase correlation between the both boxes, the perfect filter frequency again (which is coupled with the phase correlation again), the volume to base tube length factor, the base tube length to base tube diameter factor and so on and so on. And if you got *ONE* screw which is not fitting, it starts rumbling again.

And: If you buy the boxes, the case, the electronics seperately (without thinking of the working time) you are most likely to come over the price for which monitors are selled. Try it!

Anyways: I was @ Thomann and listened to like 10 different boxes. I am really suprised how BIG the differences are!! (When that guy there changed the boxes the first time I thought I had to listen very closely now - but the differences are SO BIG!!! SOOOO BIG!!! Would´ve NEVER thought that!!).

Here are my thoughts (if anyone interested):

- Genelec (dont know which - more of them): ? ... ?? .... Studio standard? Why? I think these are candidates for "Love them or hate them". I could imagine that they´re pretty good for classical stuff, but they are loosing out when it comes to electronic music... NAAAHHH! Not for THAT price!

- Tannoy Reveal: WHAT THE?? Even worse! That guy told me that the passive Reveals are better, along with the more expensive stuff from Tannoy. But the Reveals DO suck. Sorry to say that. Again: MY subjective impression.

- Behringer B2031: The heights are overweighted and start nerving after 1/2 hour. The rest is ... let´s say OK... but not more. Good price anyhow...

- And now it comes: NF 5029!! Nobody knows them?? RIGHT! Why? Cause they´re exclusively made for Thomann in Germany. They´re manufactured in Finnland. Pretty small size & price but indeed a VERY linear response. Mids precisely, heights precisely (nothing over- or underweighted). The only point is that their lower cut frequency sits´ @ about 70 Hz, which is pretty high for electronix music. Anyhow: VERY GOOD PRICE for such good quality!

- THE WINNER: ADAM and ADAM forever!!! WOW! Nothing more to say!! Absolute precisement over the whole range!!! If you take the P11 or the ANF10 plus good amp. WOW!

So my boxes @ moment will be the NF 5029 along with the Subwoofer ESI SW 8000 to support the frequencies below 80 Hz. Works F***ing good for that price (in the whole 700 - 800 Euros). But that´s definitely just a temporary solution for me: The ADAM are my absolute favourites and I will get them one day! Saving up 1400 Euros (or more for the P22 *dream*) and then having the boxes for lifetime!

So: THNX for all those suggestions! Helped me a lot before going in to serious! Hope everyone here finds the perfect boxes!  ;D (like AndrewMartens  ;))

Greetz & thnx!

PS: Holywarmodus still needed or can I switch it off again?  ;)