Abelton Live Foot Controler

[spazmatron]

I've just recently discoverd the MIDIbox world and I'm very exited, however, I feel a bit overwhelmed.  What I want to build is a foot controller for Abeleton Live that has rows of buttons for clip launching, and encoders for parameter changes (track volume, crossfader, etc.).  I want to mount the encoders sideways with some sort of rubber wheel attached to the shaft that I could roll with my foot.  ( I play bass, so I can't use my hands).

The MIOS is what I'm confused about.  From what I understand it can handle up to 128 digital inputs.  Is this any combination of buttons and encoders?  I know that buttons require 1 pin, and encoders require 2 pins.  So could I use 100 buttons and 14 encoders, or any combination?  I'm not talking about the midio128, but MIOS.

If this is correct I'm not sure where to go next.  I'm not worried about building and connecting the modules, but I don't know what to do next.  Is there an application already written that will do what I want.  I've read the uCApps site and this forum nonstop for 2 weeks now, and I don't understand how to modify the files or customize the applications.  I'm hoping I can just upload a premade application and start having some fun.

Any info will be very helpful.

Thanks

[raphael]

Hi,

The MIOS is what I'm confused about.  From what I understand it can handle up to 128 digital inputs.  Is this any combination of buttons and encoders?  I know that buttons require 1 pin, and encoders require 2 pins.  So could I use 100 buttons and 14 encoders, or any combination?  I'm not talking about the midio128, but MIOS.

From the MIOS site:

- handling of up to 64 detented/non-detented rotary encoders

- handling of up to 128 buttons, touchsensors or similar digital input devices

See: http://www.ucapps.de/mios.html

If this is correct I'm not sure where to go next.  I'm not worried about building and connecting the modules, but I don't know what to do next.  Is there an application already written that will do what I want.  I've read the uCApps site and this forum nonstop for 2 weeks now, and I don't understand how to modify the files or customize the applications.  I'm hoping I can just upload a premade application and start having some fun.

You should use the MB64E application which handles encoders (up to 64) and buttons (up to 128) and I think you won't need any programming skills because what you wanna do is just what MB64E does ;D

Raphael

[spazmatron]

I checked it out, but at the bottom of the page where it lists the features I found this line:

o up to 64 buttons, 64 LEDs (like MIDIbox64)

(now supported with MIOS)

I want more than 64 buttons.  Something like 90 or 100 buttons, and the rest encoders.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

[raphael]

MIOS can handle up to 128 digital inputs in general.

This are up to 64 encoders (with no buttons) OR 128 buttons OR any mixture in-between (e.g. 32 encs and 64 buttons)

So you will need 2 cores. One for the up to 128 buttons and one for the encoders and link them with MB_LINK: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_link.html

--> Still no progamming needed!

[spazmatron]

Thank you for the help and especially for you patience.

A couple more questions.

If I keep the number of digital ins under 128, but use more than 64 buttons(100 buttons + 14 encoders =128) can I do this on one core?  When reading about the MIDIO 128 it says 128 general digital inputs, but it never mentions encoders.  Is it just for buttons?

If I have to use two cores, how do I configure them?  What I mean is do I load one file onto one core for the buttons, and then a different file on to the second core for the encoders?

And lastly whether I'm using one or two cores, which files/apps do I need to use.  I've checked them all out on the downloads page, but I can't make much sense out of them.

Thank you for your time!!!

[illogik]

hey;

If I keep the number of digital ins under 128, but use more than 64 buttons(100 buttons + 14 encoders =128) can I do this on one core?  When reading about the MIDIO 128 it says 128 general digital inputs, but it never mentions encoders.  Is it just for buttons?

well, you can just see an encoder as 2 switches/buttons; one for down and one for up; so you can mix encoder/buttons and if you exeed the number of inputs; you build another core and link them, as raphael said

If I have to use two cores, how do I configure them?  What I mean is do I load one file onto one core for the buttons, and then a different file on to the second core for the encoders?

no, the same app>>read up on the mblink page; you link the cores by midi, then in the application menu you can define one core (or more if you have more than 3 cores) as MBLink Forwarding point; and the last one as MBLink endpoint. Also make sure that both core have different device id's.(you give the core an id number when you burn the bootstrap loader, and you can change it using the "change_id" app)

And lastly whether I'm using one or two cores, which files/apps do I need to use.  I've checked them all out on the downloads page, but I can't make much sense out of them.

first when you wanna build something; write down what you want your box to do>>in the mb projects section, choose the project that comes closest to your wishes. In your case i would go for a MB64E; since this is made to handle encoders and buttons as a midicontoller.

then in general, from empty PIC to running app.:

1> burn the bootstrap loader in the PIC using a hardware burner+software (MBHP burner+P18; JDM-module+IC-prog) You can buy preburned PIC's in the MBShops (so you don't need a burner)

2> Upload the MIOS (=operating system) through midi; use MIOS-studio, or Serge's SysEx loader, midi-ox.

3> Change and build the appropriate MBapp to your need with MPLab IDE (easy thanks to thorsten! 8)) and upload it the same way you did with MIOS.

4> have some sleep-deprivating fun with the most wickedest thing you ever built.  ;D

hope this helps, marcel

[spazmatron]

3> Change and build the appropriate MBapp to your need with MPLab IDE

This is the part I need help with.  I've looked at the apps on the uCApps download page, but I don't know which file to alter or how.

You recomend the MB64E app, however from what I understand it can only handle 64 buttons.

I want 100 buttons and 14 encoders. (This should fit on one core right? 100 + 14 = 128)

From reading the forum and uCApps site this doesn't seem to diffucult, I just don't know how to do it.

Sorry for asking the same question over and over, but I'm code illiterate.

Thank you for all of your help.

[illogik]

hi,

look, the way you want it can be done; but 100 buttons on a core is no option for the standard apps, so with no coding you should just make two cores (both running mb64e app). If you really want to run it on one core; be patient for other replies (meaning i dont know how :P) or start learning to code for yourself.

there is a whole page on ucapps.de about MPLAB IDE; read up on it download it and open up a file (for now let's choose MB64E), open up and play with the main.asm file (where you customize the app). You'll see it will have nothing to do with being code illiterate ;) it's too easy.

BTW i'm curious you say you can't use your hands but you want 100 :o buttons; you got extra feet? or are you capable of playing with your toes?

good luck, marcel

[raphael]

You recomend the MB64E app, however from what I understand it can only handle 64 buttons.

I want 100 buttons and 14 encoders. (This should fit on one core right? 100 + 14 = 128)

So I will say it again: Build two cores and link them like Illogic described for you!

This is the part I need help with.  I've looked at the apps on the uCApps download page, but I don't know which file to alter or how

With two linked cores you won't need any programming skills. To do the configuration in most apps the only thing you will have to touch (if at all) is main.asm. Read the comment in this file.

Hey Illogic:

BTW i'm curious you say you can't use your hands but you want 100  buttons; you got extra feet? or are you capable of playing with your toes?

He plays bass guitar... (from his first post)

[illogik]

hi;

Hey Illogic:

Quote

BTW i'm curious you say you can't use your hands but you want 100  buttons; you got extra feet? or are you capable of playing with your toes?

He plays bass guitar... (from his first post)

yeah i saw that; so he has 100 buttons to operate with his feet alone ???; would get an awfully big foot controller>> since playing those tiny (tact) switches we normally use with your feet wil get a little complicated right?; but when you use foot switches you'll need the space of 100 small fx stompboxes?

or is all this coffee i'm drinking getting to my head :-\

again this is not criticism; just curiosity  ;D

cheerz

[spazmatron]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll download MPLAB IDE and mess with the file before I ask this question again!

As far as the 100 buttons go, if youv'e ever used Ableton Live you would probably understand.  I'll explain.  You have columns of little buttons(scenes) in rows. Each column is one track.  The buttons trigger different scenes.  Also I need a few extra buttons for each track for Mute, Record enable, etc.  I know it seems like a lot of buttons, but I want to use it live, so I need a lot of options.

As far as the size, I am a little concerned.  I was thinking maybe tiered rows?

Also, does anyone have any ideas for foot rollers on encoders?(read first post)

Thanks again!

[illogik]

hi;

know ableton; haven't had time to play with it yet, but i know what you mean.

just an idea; to save buttons/space you could make the scenes-, mute-, rec-, enable- etc buttons one time and making track select buttons. not your ideal solution but if size is gonna be a problem...

for the rollers; connect small plastic wheels to the encoder, using the shaft as an axis; the wheel you can rip out of any old Korg MS-x0 synth.  ;) hehe just kidding, sure i scared some people..

think the most difficult thing is to get it strong enough so you can really play it with your foot without breaking it

cheers, marcel