Silverfish Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Hi all- I took a quick look at the info for the NI Kore stuff today, and I must say that at almost $600, it doesn't do a whole lot. Atleast it looks cool. I guess I'd rather build my own. What do you guys think of the thing? Silverfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 BooorrrringI hate software synths, and I hate presets. And this one just seems like a boring controller and software aimed at preset-monkeys. Yuck. Give me a MBSID, MBFM, and MBSEQ any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfish Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Lol. Since I'm really young (I can count my years of electronic music on just over one hand), I'm quite fond of software. As I advance along with live performance and other things, I am realizing how vital hardware can actually be. My biggest regret at the moment is that I don't have enough time to crank out more Midibox projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 You sound kinda like me :)I always wanted a studio, and I started out using FT2 (holy cow that was like 15 years ago!) but always wanted a proper sampler and synths etc...So I saved up for ages and ages, watching software synths growing in popularity and technological advancements, but I was never really interested until they matched the capabilities of the hardware, which happened after I had about 3 hardware synths... So then I set up a DAW and spent a fortune on a bunch of software, which was buggy as hell, took weeks to configure, and was superseded within months. I, feeling ripped off, upgraded to a cracked version, but my karma didn't deal well with it (no, not a korg karma, I mean I felt guilty), and I was trying to do live improv stuff anyway, and the instability of PC's and Mac's was just intolerable. Dead air during a show is just the biggest no-no ever, and you never know when it's going to crash.......I eventualy realised that it would cost just a little more, but be far superior, to go all hardware.... No crashing and rebuilding and tweaking for performance and crashing and upgrading and crashing and converting to a new proprietry sample format and playing 'find the one buggy vsti in the vstplugins dir' and losing data thanks to crashing and did I mention crashing? ;DI must admit though, a few things on DAW are often missed.... Only those things I can't do in hardware though... Absynth and kontakt.... But there's not much else you can do with a PC that you can't with hardware. Kontakt can be compared with a VP9000 but they lack polyphony, abby and kontakt are matched only by a capybara, or a big-ass modular system that is larger than your house in both size and price ;) Can't think of much else... And you can't build personalised customised one-of-a-kind HUI's or unique custom semi-modular self-patching sequencers with commercial gear either ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambinator Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Hi!I also had a look at KORE and I find it looks really promising. Mapping parameters of vsti's in most sequencers (apart from ableton live) are a pain, not to mention problems with parameter feedback and jumps. I don't see the point with presets. Presets also include the sounds you created by yourself.KORE looks like a nice alternative to Mackie's C4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 I pre-ordered a Kore system some time before they were actually officially released- mainly, I have to admit, because I thought they looked cool. When the thing eventually arrived I was a little disappointed with the generally 'plasticky' build quality. The headphone monitoring system (when oyu use it as a USB2 audio IO) is a bit odd, too. On the plus side though, the knobs themselves feel solid enough, and the way they light up in red when you touch them is really cool!In terms of overall usability, I must admit I haven't really used it enough to be able to tell. My overall impression is that it's really designed as an interface to the NI Komplete plugin package, with support for other plugins etc a bit of an afterthought. I'm waiting to see if templates for 3rd-party plugins start to appear, because it could be a really nice interface. I'm also waiting for NI to get around to 'Intelising' their plugins so they work on my Apple MacBook Pro as well as on my desktop G5. I have Kore on it now, but have barely used it because I find it really annoying that it presents you with this endless list of exciting-sounding presets, none of which of course work, because the relevent plugins aren't installed.Ultimately, I think it's mainly a sales device to lure people with some pretty hardware into buyinh Komplete 3....Not that that means you can't use it for other things too...Alexhttp://www.toneburst.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfish Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 I find it amusing that I jumped on the Kore ship. I was initially really unimpressed, but when the offer came up to get NI Komplete 3 and Kore for free, I couldn't resist (Imagine being a student and getting Komplete 3 for half off, and then getting Kore on top of it). NI pwns my soul. *sigh* So, I'll wait patiently for my shipment to arrive, since it's on back order. Maybe by then they'll have their bugs sorted too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiocommander Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Maybe by then they'll have their bugs sorted too.haha... :Dthat's been a nice joke :(sorry about my sarcasm, but I'm just sooooo bored waiting for one-and-half-a-year for a PRG-CH bug-fix of Absynth3. There is a reason, why you have to register to gain access to the NI-support forums.NI has great software-tools... and an even greater copy-protection (I tend to call it "customer-protection"), but IMHO a bit overpriced and buggy enough to be a pain in the ar*e when you have to rely on it live on stage.If you're in a (home)studio, it's okay; if you're doing live-music with a professional demand, it's not recommendable...I know my opinion comes late, but haven't read this thread before... maybe you are luckier than me, 'cause KORE seems to be the biggest product since quite some time now...Regards,Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfish Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 I'm curious if it's really THAT bad. I've been on the support forum, and it seems like most of the complaints come from a very concentrated group of people. I'm not too worried about it. Hopefully it'll turn out to be atleast an average controller, and if not I'll send it to the 'bay and use the cash to pay off Komplete. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 If there are complaints from a tight group of people then it usually means one of two things:1) They're incompetent and can't get it to work when they should be able toor2) They're the most competent group and are the only ones pushing the equipment to it's limits, so they're the only ones seeing the problem.I had a problem with a newly released ADSL router/modem/voip box thing recently, and Billion (the manufacturer) were ignoring all my issues telling me that it was everyone's fault but theirs, because I was one of a very few people with the problems I was reporting. Of course, after the modem had been out for a few months, a lot more users ran into the issue and they released a firmware update that fixed the issues which they had previously insisted were due to my own configuration/the ISP/Windows/just about anyone else they could blame...I was in group 2.... But of course, until the manufacturer was willing to admit to the fault, everyone assumed I was in group 1. The trick here is with replication of the fault. If the manufacturer can't replicate the fault, they'll say it doesn't exist, and it's user error... Problem is, that often replicating the fault requires replicating the environment, and very few support departments have the kind of resources or the inclination required to do so.... It's much easier, and most importantly for them, much cheaper, to blame the bugs on the end user.All that's really needed is for those with a fault to get together, find the one of them who is most technically experienced in troubleshooting, and have them identify the EXACT nature of the fault. They're going to need professional IT troubleshooting skills or nobody will listen to them, even if they are lucky enough to find the problemWhat is required to get action out of these guys is two things: 1) An undeniable replicable fault - meaning that they can't pretend it doesn't exist, and 2) Plenty of publicity regarding the fault - Meaning they'll lose business because people won't buy their product if they know it's buggy.The only thing that works with these capitalist pig morons is taking their money. Start speaking their language and you'll get an answer you might like ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganGrinder Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 The only thing that works with these capitalist pig morons is taking their money.and i agree with most of the rest of what you said.i as a software developer, also have the problems you are talking about but on the other side of the fence. convincing the software owner/contractor to put the money and resources in so that we can eliminate the bugs. it is amazing how much software is out there with known bugs, but the contractor says it is good enough.please understand that it is vurtually impossible to make large software projects bug free, the amount of time and resources to do so would make the software prohibitively expensive (think $50,000 instead of $50) and with all the variability with computers - trust me it's too much for your brain to imagine.now for a relatively simple system say a pacemaker, you can do the testing necessary, but once it is on a general computer (PC, Mac etc) forget it.also, unless the contractor keeps the development team unbroken and available, it will probably be different people working on finding and fixing any post release bugs (and your wouldn't believe how much documentation needs to be read to do so).so in the end, there is a limit in how much can be assured before the product goes to market. and don't blame the developers, but the people who decide when the software is released - they are rarely involved with the day to day hands on development.case in point, if you examine computer games, the reason why they tend not be be buggy anymore is that the software (commonly refered to as the game engine) is normally finished 1-2 years before release and can be checked thoroughly, the extra time is needed for developing the 3d environments and all that sort of stuff (the creativety of a software developer is not the same kind of creativity for a graphic designer).OrganGrinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiocommander Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 please understand that it is vurtually impossible to make large software projects bug freeyes, I understand, but my understanding is limited:- NI has a closed private beta phase, no public testings, although there are masses of volunteers!- NI denies bugs and declares them as "features" until they make themselfes ridiculous.- NI lies about releasing bug-fix updates "in the near future" ( > 1 year now, have the email here!)- NI introduces new bugs with new versions (I know that can happen, but imho they're simply not betatesting enough!)- minor bugs are not avoidable, agreed. but elementary bugs like hanging notes or unstored prefs / denying of receiving PRG-CH messages is simply not acceptable. this is no bug anymore, this makes the whole software unuseable – remember: I'm talking about being live on stage! Imagine my computer crashes: I would need about 5 minutes before I'm back again. 3.5 minutes are purely related to NI absynth, because it tries to connect to the network (copy protection) and I have to open each instance's window, go twice (!) into deep nested menues to enable PRG-CH's and select Channels before I can continue to make music.and I'm a programmer, too (objective-c / mac), so I also know what I'm talking about. This could be fixed with _very_ little effort and it worked in the versions before, so this is just lazyness or ignorance.And I've seen developers releasing a bug-fix version 24 hours after the first release and these are small companies with one or two people (eg DSP-Quattro) - with even more complex programs that only cost a small amount of what NI takes for its programs.I have absolutely no more understanding for this behaviour and I foresee that NI will be sold sooner or later, if they continue with this.Cheers, Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 It's all about dollars. Projects, as you both know, being in the industry with me, get a fixed budget. Once the budget runs low, things that might normally get fixed but aren't critical faults are deemed, as OG said, "good enough" by the bean counters. I don't blame the developers themselves - the guys actually cutting the code, but their upper management.But they're just doing what they have to do to run the company at a thick profit and keep the pockets of the few nice and full, and giving the consumers 'close enough' to what they want to keep them buying. It keeps the company going and that keeps the consumers happy.This is why money talks. If the company stands to lose a lot of money from a bad reputation caused by saving a measly few grand for developing postfixes, they'll spend the money, and save face. No threat of a bad rep means no need to spend the money, means no fixes :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiocommander Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 and this is exactly, what pushes me towards hardware-solutions.once they run, they run :)no 5-min boot-up, no crash (hopefully!), no $$-greeders and always the best support, thanks to you all and TK :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tos Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Ok but how to complete the low-cost-circle only with hardware?Or, how to be sure not to get crash in live performance(or at least lower the probability of crash)?-the backup computer-normal OS [linux or X]-use open source so you can implement/fix functions [no open source is developed enough]-just shoot yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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