Potmeters and knobs (first post)

[robin303]

Hello everyone in this fine community! Here's my first post on the board.. My name's Robin and I'm planning on building a MIDIbox64;

I have just ordered my PCB's at Mike's site and I have a big orderlist ready to send out to reichelt monday. My primary target for using the MIDIbox is controlling the various aspects of Reason 2.0 in a live setup.

I have a cool design in my head but also still some questions ..  ;D

• Can I use 360 degrees pots (unlimited turning) if I set the midibox in relative mode? Or should i stick to the 300 degree ones like the P6M-LIN 10K at reichelt.de?
  
• Can you give me some examples of how the DOUT module works and what can be done with it? I did see some posts on this subject in the forum about ledrings,  vumeters and leds as feedback to the DIN module, but I just don't understand the concept of the DOUTX4 (I did order two of them though)
  
• Is there a way to build the powersupply into the box or should I stick with an external adapter?
  
• Would anyone have an idea if it's possible to control the REWIND and FOWARD buttons of reason with a single jog wheel?
  

Well that's my first list of questions  :)

Cheers,

Robin

[Captain_Hastings]

Yay, a fellow Reason user...  ;D

I suppose that by 360° endless pots you mean encoders?

They are actually 2 different things: encoders need to be connected using a DIN module (encoder = digital, ref a computer mouse), and pots using an AIN module (analog).

The problem with Reason is that it neither has midi out (to update the values of the encoders or pots in snap or relative mode) nor a "soft takeover"/snap function.

This means you can only work in absolute mode = whenever you turn a pot, Reason will take that exact value.

Dunno if that answers the question?

You can attach leds to the DOUT and configure the midibox so that the leds are linked to buttons.

That way you can have a led indicating the state of a toggle button on the box, which is handy for solo/mute feedback.

You can build a powersupply in the box, but it's easier to use a simple external psu thingy.

About the jog wheel... can't be done... But you might be able to assign buttons to the transport functions (play, record, ff, rew etc) by using a workaround.

Reason has no midi implementation for these, but there are keyboard shortcuts.

I found this http://www.beatprisoner.com/support/midi/us-428_reason_control.html article that apparently describes a way to translate midi events (from a Tascam US-428 ) to those keystrokes. But i think it might not be that straightforward...  :P

cheers!

[robin303]

Wow, a rock-solid reply  ;D

This clears up some of the questionmarks hanging around my head!  ???

I suppose that by 360° endless pots you mean encoders?

They are actually 2 different things: encoders need to be connected using a DIN module (encoder = digital, ref a computer mouse), and pots using an AIN module (analog).

The problem with Reason is that it neither has midi out (to update the values of the encoders or pots in snap or relative mode) nor a "soft takeover"/snap function.

This means you can only work in absolute mode = whenever you turn a pot, Reason will take that exact value.

Dunno if that answers the question?

This definately answers my question. I went into reason right away and discovered the fact that there's no midi out   :(  So it will be "absolute pots" then... The nasty thing will be that if I change banks while performing, all knobs will change position right away.

You can attach leds to the DOUT and configure the midibox so that the leds are linked to buttons.

That way you can have a led indicating the state of a toggle button on the box, which is handy for solo/mute feedback.

Ok, but what if I, for instance, turn a mute channel off with my mouse? The MIDIbox will not get a signal to turn the led off because Reason doesn't send out MIDI data right? Will, from that moment on, the led be inconsistent with the actual on/off value in Reason?

About the jog wheel... can't be done... But you might be able to assign buttons to the transport functions (play, record, ff, rew etc) by using a workaround.

Reason has no midi implementation for these, but there are keyboard shortcuts.

I found this http://www.beatprisoner.com/support/midi/us-428_reason_control.html article that apparently describes a way to translate midi events (from a Tascam US-428 ) to those keystrokes. But i think it might not be that straightforward...  

I understand what you mean. But why wouldn't this little trick work?

What is also weird is the fact that, when I select "Edit MIDI remote mapping" in Reason, the transport buttons DO have green arrows on them. This indicates that they can in fact be mapped to a midi key?

Cheers,

Robin

[Captain_Hastings]

The nasty thing will be that if I change banks while performing, all knobs will change position right away.

There might be two things: setting up the midibox when opening a song (initial values for the banks) and switching banks.

I think the switching problem could be solved by using the snap or relative function on the midibox... but i'm not at all sure this is how it works (my box ain't finished yet) - maybe someone else can confirm this?

Ok, but what if I, for instance, turn a mute channel off with my mouse? The MIDIbox will not get a signal to turn the led off because Reason doesn't send out MIDI data right? Will, from that moment on, the led be inconsistent with the actual on/off value in Reason?

Yep, that's the drawback of having no midi feedback from Reason.

I understand what you mean. But why wouldn't this little trick work?  

What is also weird is the fact that, when I select "Edit MIDI remote mapping" in Reason, the transport buttons DO have green arrows on them. This indicates that they can in fact be mapped to a midi key?

You're right! I thought wrong.

They're not in the midi implementation charts, but you can assign them using the Edit Midi Remote mapping. And you could use Midi Translator + Midi Loopback to control the tempo up/down (+/- keys).

[Steven_C]

Hey Bart,

 oops, I mean Robin! Have you considered a midibox with 16 or so rotary (endless) encoders....?? the reason being that the encoders are expensive, so you will want to be switching banks, but this is not a problem with encoders. (probably 1 midibox16e is more useful than 2 midibox 64's for midi remote control :'( (I just built 2) But, I'm building LC now ::)

bye from Steve

ps my cool NOVA synth has soft overtake built in....Yeah! (why can't this catch on with other manufacturers???)

[Captain_Hastings]

Steven,

the reason being that the encoders are expensive, so you will want to be switching banks, but this is not a problem with encoders.

???

Okay, say you have bank 1 and an encoder has value 32, if you switch to bank 2 where the encoder controls another midi param, and switch back to bank 1, does the midibox return to the value 32 of the encoder?

And if you switch banks on a midibox 64, this doesn't happen - meaning the virtual motorfaders/snap/relative/parallax functions are only useful when you do have midi feedback?

Right?

[robin303]

I did actually consider the MIDIbox16 but I think it really lacks knobs, so to say. The point is that my way of music making  is quite physical. I want to turn knobs, press buttons and then record that live action in the sequencer instead of doing it the other way round  :)

Here is a pic of one of my favourite 'real' instruments that I use a lot: the Yamaha SK30! Music making with this beast is really a physical thing as you are turning knowbs and sliding faders all the time. Unfortunately it doesn't have midi yet..

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for: controlling the super-powerfull Reason software with a box of knobs!  ;D I think however that 64 pots and 64 buttons must be quite enough to program Reason devices for live recording. It's not that I want to control the whole program with one box. Just one or two devices at a time.

I have been trying to get the transport buttons to work with Serge's vMidiBox but so far I have not been able to do so. I think the point is that I really don't understand this whole "Event Type" business:

Captain Hastings, what should be the correct setting for a vMidiBox button to trigger, for instance, the Reason play button?

And did anyone figure out how to control the pattern selection (1 to 8)  in the Matrix and Redrum modules with midi remote?

Before building a box, it;'s really good to first know what you can actually do with one. Thanks to Serge for the great Virtual MidiBox software!!

[Captain_Hastings]

I have been trying to get the transport buttons to work with Serge's vMidiBox but so far I have not been able to do so. I think the point is that I really don't understand this whole "Event Type" business:

Well, if you set the event type to 9/note on, say channel 16, note 64 and then go into Reason and set the midi remote for "Play" to Channel 16, note 64, it will work. Maybe you have a midi keyboard? Should work the same way.

Mind that in Reason you need to select the midi input for Remote Control in the Preferences dialog.

hope this helps!

[robin303]

Somehow it doesn't work here. I'll try it with my midi keyboard tomorrow, maybe that'l do better...

What I don't understand, is the fact that the "Learn" function in Reason does recognize the vMIDIbox button I am clicking. It gives the channel and note info correctly. But after programming, when I turn the "edit midi remote" function off, nothing happens when I click the button in vMIDIbox...  ???

[Captain_Hastings]

Strange, i can't get it to work with vmidibox + midi yoke either...  ???

But it does work with my midibox prototype and keyboard tho.

[robin303]

Ok, so the transport buttons do work with your midibox hardware..? Then I know I can put stop, play, rewind, forward, record buttons in my midibox design. Weird that it doesn't work in vMIDIbox though.. I just got Redrum / Matrix pattern selection to work as well..  8)

Say, how many buttons are typically used for controlling the LCD, bankstick kinda stuff?

Right now, I've got

• 2 buttons for bankstick bank select up/down
  
• 2 buttons for store/restore bank
  
• 3 buttons for LCD left, right and execute
  

Anything I forgot?

[Captain_Hastings]

Yep, Reason transport btns work with my midibox64.

You might like to add a Snapshot button to your list (which is one of the 4 first predefined buttons together with left/right/exec).

[robin303]

I thought Snapshot was the same as Store? Hmm..  ???

[TK.]

In some menues the snapshot button is also used for other functions. But it's ok, you can use the "snapshot" function for restore and another for store, or you can hold the snapshot button 3 seconds in order to store the bank - the function itself is defined via "Special Function Button" event (some kind of meta event, see the appr. list for available functions)

Best Regards, Thorsten.