Buttons - Do I have to mount on to a PCB to get good ones?

[The III Man]

Hi,

Ive been planning my midibox 64 for a while now and everything including parts is clear in my mind, apart from the buttons.

I am no electrician and want to panel mount all pots which is easy enough. However I really don't know where to start with making a pcb for my buttons so I was planning on getting panel mounting ones, but the ones that I am interested in such as these which are used on the faderfox are pcb mounting.

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1201378

How do I start to design a pcb - can I do it on one of those evenly spaced "breadboards" or does it really require me teaching my self pcb deisgn, etching etc.. I want to avoid the pcb route as much as possible because I want my midibox to be reasobanly "quick" to build and parts to be replaceable - so any suggestions. Any ideas for good small panel mount buttons?

cheers for taking the time to read and answer (if you do)

also check out the tunes i'm hoping to play with the midibox whilst you mull over your answer http://thethirdmanmusic.co.uk.

thanks alor

toby

[kris]

while its true youve got more choice with pcb mount buttons there are some good

panel mount  i use one by a company called apem its the 1415NC  sorry i havent got a link as i phone the guy it plays well is splash proof and grit proof but sometimes it would be good if it was smaller and i might have to start using pcb mount ones for variety but it could sort you out for your first box

regards kris

[SLP]

It's no problem If you use a simple breadboard.

That's really easy to do:

1- cut the holes for the buttons (and screws) in your Frontpanel

2- solder the buttons on the breadboard

3- Screw the breadboard to the panel (you can do the same as Wilba did at his MBSID and                              just glue the heads of the screws on the back of your frontpanel OR you can just drill additional holes for the screws in step 1)

4- solder the cables to the solder-points of the switches at the solder- (copper-)side of the PCB

matthias

[Jidis]

Toby,

They're probably one of the "easier" components to make a board for if you go that route. Matthias' suggestion sounds simple enough, and would avoid any drilling. If you don't mind trying an etch or some drilling, and can arrange your buttons on their own PCB (or PCBs), they're the sort of thing that you may even be able to achieve decent results with just the Sharpie marker "hand drawn traces" method. The ground side of all the switches will be chained together and will be pretty much just a straight line, and the pins at the other side will have plenty of surrounding space to do whatever you need.

Re: The selection- There are plenty of exceptions, but with all the stuff I've got here, it seems most of the snap-in or bolt-on panel mount switches I've got here are more rugged, and also require a bit more force to depress. For quicker, frequent use, something that just takes a light "finger tip" tap is usually best IMHO, and that's where you'll usually find the board mount types.

George 

[stryd_one]

i use one by a company called apem its the 1415NC  sorry i havent got a link as i phone the guy it plays well is splash proof and grit proof but sometimes it would be good if it was smaller and i might have to start using pcb mount ones for variety but it could sort you out for your first box

Hmmm your guy might have tricked you into a sale because the 1415NC is a changeover (latching, not momentary) and isn't splash or grit proof (the sub $5 pricetag is a giveaway ;) )

The 1413N* is a normally open momentary though, or you can get the 1443N* which has PCB pins as well as the snapin panel mount :)

[kris]

stryd ive now used these buttons on two midi-boxes and am about to use them on a third so the guy hasnt tricked me into anything

as for being splash proof and grit proof the two midi boxes ive already used them on have been in the himilaya and on the back off the beach for most of there life and not one button has ever stopped working or even has the action got sticky or alterd in any way

so i was offering advice from experience not the virtual world of web pages and data sheets

ps i phone the guy and he sends them to me and i pay him on receipt very rare in the modern computer orientated world but a service i enjoy

regards kris

[stryd_one]

stryd ive now used these buttons on two midi-boxes and am about to use them on a third so the guy hasnt tricked me into anything

as for being splash proof and grit proof ... i was offering advice from experience not the virtual world of web pages and data sheets

Ahh My bad, I read the word changeover and thought latching, but they aren't latching, theyre dual NC/NO... So they will at least work :)

I hate how all the different manufacturers use different terminology, it makes it hard to search for them as well...

I thought that you meant that the guy on the phone told you he was sending you sealed switches... Just don't wanna see you get ripped off, because even without our modern computer orientated world people are still scammers sometimes  :(

[The III Man]

Hi All,

Thanks for the quick replies. I think the PCB method will give me better end results and a more compact controller which is important in the long run, but I dont want to make it all and it not work so please humour me and read the below and tell me if I am wrong etc.

I am planning on getting the pcb's to stuff from Smash Tv, so I am presuming I have a complete Din 4. I will then get a breadboard and wish to have buttons in four button clusters using these ITT Cannon buttons - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/45902.pdf.

So each button needs to have two connections as shown in http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dinx4_32buttons.pdf. The buttons I have chosen require 4 connections so can I just fork the input and output? Like in this image

.

If so I guess I would then create a rail across the top to connect all the buttons at one end, and then a wire going from the pcb to each respective digital inputs on the "J" sections.

Does this make sense? It would then look something like this -

.

If that then works I'd just (as suggested above) mount the whole PCB to the panel either by glueing or screwing it on - hey presto - buttons. I really hope so.

If so then I am starting to understand. Whilst I have your attention then , the pots are pretty similar expect require two connections - to +5v, 0v and then to the Ain connection. If this is correct then I am expecting that once I have assembled the sets from Smash and interconnected, I then only need to create connections, I dont have to stick in any bonus resistors etc? Just checking.

Thanks for your time

toby

[TheAncientOne]

I have a batch of panel mount single pole push buttons, a high quality part made by Rendar(now part of Schurter). They are black, with a chrome fixing nut. They cost me 50p each. If you are interested, drop me a memo, and I'll take a picture, or if you are in the UK/Europe, send you a sample. They have a small wiring 2 core wiring lloom attached - they were parts (unused) for some British Telecom system.

Hope this is of use

Mike

[Jidis]

Toby,

The diagram looks fine to me. :)

I've got a bag of those switches too. If you go with any of the ones where the button head is smaller than the total diameter of the button, be careful with your panel thickness and mounting. The travel on them isn't all that far. I used some of the square cap ones with an eighth inch aluminum panel and had to recess the back of the panel to get them far enough through the face. You also want them to sit back far enough so that the back of the panel doesn't end up pressing the button in on it's own. :-X

Of course the easier solution is just to buy the ones with the larger square or round heads, but I got a deal on those. ;)

Good Luck,

George

PS- BTW, Eagle has a library model of those switches. Even if you don't choose to etch, you may be able to use it's bitmap export to get a panel hole layout or something you can use in a CAD app. 

[The III Man]

aah good point about the travel. I am planning on getting a schaeffar panel made as I have no tools or metalworking skills and want it to look smart. I think a 2mm panel should be okay as that's about a sixteenth of an inch from looking at my ruler - is that right?

Anyway, I'm pretty set on the PCB idea, thanks prof for the help with the panel mount ones, but I reckon PCB/ Breadboard is where I'm heading.

So Farnell have this http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=147897as I want a broad array of buttons across my panel. I can't anywhere find what the spacing is between the holes, but in principal is this the sort of thing I use? I then mount solder and make damn sure the spacing fits my front panel.

Also there are so many different types of buttons on farnell, from what I know I want momentary or SPST switches but can I use any of the ones below?

SPDT - momentary

SPNO -  (what does NO stand for?)

SPST - No

thanks for your continuing help

Toby

[TheAncientOne]

SPDT - momentary

SPNO -  (what does NO stand for?)

SPST - No

SPDT = Single Pole Double Throw

SPNO = Single Pole Normally Open

SPST = Single Pole Single Throw - Normally Open.

Mike

[TheAncientOne]

Update on buttons: the guy gave me bad data, they are in fact made by Arcolectric, http://www.arcolectric.co.uk/0916.html.

They have leads fitted, the terminals heat shrink insulated, and about 16" (540mm) of 2 core cable spiral wrapped down to an odd two pin plug. Snip off the plug, unwrap the spirap and half the job is done.

Offer stands.

Mike